It's literally the worst designed concept of all time. A type of damage in the game that has no counterplay should not exist. Period. There's not a single design point that you can point to that makes %HP true damage a thing that should exist.
Ηuawei44 votesI want to remind everyone that the op said amount of "%HP true damage" ..emhpasis on true... and not just %HP damage
Hügö42 votesWaiting for the "i dont want tank meta" comments
Critmaster Garen32 votesonly 3 champions in the game have it. two of them have it bound to mechanics with counterplay.
protect your vitals
only against the villain. stay out of the spin and mind his cooldown windows
the other is 
, and she needs it either removed or tied to a mechanic that you can actually play around instead of chunking you for 14% on every second auto attack and/or tumble and/or e.
Zardo8 votesI'd say the only one with meaningful counterplay would be fiora.
When playing against garen midgame, "just stay away from the spin 4Head" doesn't really work too well when he comes barreling at you at mach 4.
Baron Von Garen5 votesIt actually works really well if you pay attention to what the most simple champion in the game actually does.
It's a 1 time slow cleanse that only gives 30% movespeed (People like 
get upwards of 50% and they can proc it multiple times)
It also doesn't go on cooldown until after he autos or the duration expires (4.5s). It's on a 8 second cooldown at all ranks, meaning if you slow him one time after he Q's (which is the only way he can get to you in the first place), he's out of commission for 12.5 seconds with no cdr (bare minimum would be about 9 seconds)
But yea, if you just walk up marked and try to 1v1 him or something, I guess there's no counter play to pure stupidity
Razelth2 votesPeople like Fiora and Camille also aren't champions designed to be a juggernaut archetype with one of the strongest damage reduction abilities while doing a decent amount of damage with one damage item.
Baron Von Garen3 votesHis damage reduction barely lasts, and the only good part of it lasts .75 seconds. It has a 24 second cooldown and only lasts 2 seconds total until you put more points into it at the end of the game.
I'd rather take fiora's FULL damage reduction/aoe attack speed/movespeed slow/cc redirection.
I'd rather take Camille's in-lane sustain or her shield than Garen's W.
Razelth2 votesHuh, aoe? It only works for the first enemy hit by the parry. Its great you're showing you're arguing against something you have no knowledge of.
I like how you emphasize full damage reduction. You mean the 0.75 second parry that doesn't parry damage from towers? Sounds like a FULL damage reduction to me.
Garen W only lasts 2 seconds holy wow, that is such a small amount of time. AND only 6 seconds at max level? It also gives you free resists that up to 40 armor and magic resist wow.
You mean Camille's in lane sustain that is countered by dodging her W? I guess Garen's passive that heals you by doing nothing isn't enough then. I fail to see how a 20% hp shield is better than 30% damage reduction for 2-6 seconds, 60% damage reduction and tenacity for the first 0.75 seconds, and 40 armor and magic resist by simply last hitting.
Baron Von Garen2 votesYou're really bad at arguing, but I think it's fun to prove others that they're wrong. So here goes nothin
Technically, yes Fiora's W is an AOE (It has an area of effect, it isn't a point and click) although it only affects one target. I didn't think I'd have to mention that since it's in lane and it's usually 1v1 (she's a duelist if you didn't know)
" You mean the 0.75 second parry that doesn't parry damage from towers?"
Again, we're comparing champions, so yes, I still count it as full damage reduction (Garen isn't a tower)
"Garen W only lasts 2 seconds holy wow, that is such a small amount of time. AND only 6 seconds at max level?"
If you still can't read, I said " only lasts 2 seconds total until you put more points into it at the end of the game." Now, as we know, Garen is supposed to be an early/mid champ, meaning he falls off and becomes kinda useless near the end of the game, which is when you get the 6 seconds at level 18.
" free resists that up to 40 armor and magic resist wow."
This is partially a lie, since Garen's armor per level was put down as well as his hp per level. Meaning even though it sounds like you're getting a lot from his W passive, you're actually getting about 20 more armor, 40 magic resist (which is nice but doesn't really matter that much in lane), and 200 less health compared to other juggernauts/bruisers
"You mean Camille's in lane sustain that is countered by dodging her W?"
She can move at full movement speed while charging it up, it's kinda hard to miss if we're being honest
"I guess Garen's passive that heals you by doing nothing isn't enough then."
Level 1-10 (basically most of laning phase) Garen's passive is slightly less useful than a refillable potion, also, it's on a 9 second cooldown during any instance of champion damage he takes, so it's not even doing anything half the time.
Also on top of that, like I said with his W, his base hp regen and regen per level is lower than other juggernauts because of his passive
" I fail to see how a 20% hp shield is better than 30% damage reduction for 2-6 seconds, 60% damage reduction and tenacity for the first 0.75 seconds, and 40 armor and magic resist by simply last hitting."
The tenacity is nice sometimes, but the cooldown on that shield goes down to 10 seconds, and it scales off max hp (which is good for Garen). So I'd get to use that shield twice as much as Garen's W, which would make his 1v1s and laning in general a lot easier.
Razelth1 votesYou mentioned aoe attack speed/movement speed slow. You are proving no one wrong. God that technicality is so absurd. OH HEY IT HAS AN AOE VISUAL EFFECT IT IS TECHNICALLY AOE WHILE HITTING ONLY ONE PERSON. I guess it is technically AOE with its damage invulnerability, but you really should be more specific. I'm pretty sure they teach you that in middle school, so give it a few more years.
Him falling off doesn't matter. Don't bring random points in. He gets a 6 second 30% damage reduction lategame. That sounds like a big deal to me, especially when he has nearly 4k hp in the late game and 150+ resists.
Garen gets 40 free resists, that is not partially a lie, it is the complete truth.
I guess Darius's in lane sustain is broken too then? He can move at full movement speed while charging it up, it's kinda hard to hit on a player using a fraction of their brain if we're being honest.
Do you want to use math or should I? 20% hp shield vs 30% damage reduction for 6 seconds? He doesn't need an easier lane when his passive + Doran's shield + Second wind makes him near immortal in lane.
"It has an area of effect, it isn't a point and click" I really want to make this my signature. According to Baron Von Garen, all skillshots are hereby now considered AOE spells, as they are not a point and click. When you read this, I know you are going to misconstrue my words, don't worry about this. Its just a joke. All your arguments are as well made as this one, but hey, you love to prove people wrong by using your sheer stupidity. After all, no one can ever win an argument against an idiot.
Baron Von Garen2 votes"but you really should be more specific. I'm pretty sure they teach you that in middle school, so give it a few more years."
I just feel like you aren't reading half the things I type. In a 1v1 scenario, which again is what I'm assuming we're talking about, I don't really need to be specific about whether it hits more than 1 person or not.
"Him falling off doesn't matter. Don't bring random points in. "
Yes, it does matter. Fiora outscales basically anyone in the game in a 1v1 because of her kit/abilities whether she goes 0/10 or 10/0.
"He gets a 6 second 30% damage reduction lategame. That sounds like a big deal to me"
By this time the adc's will have their inf edge and possibly lord dominiks, so the 30% becomes almost negligible. You'll still die in 2-3 seconds.
"I guess Darius's in lane sustain is broken too then?"
Maybe not broken, but it's good, idk why you're acting like it's somehow worthless.
"He can move at full movement speed while charging it up, it's kinda hard to hit on a player using a fraction of their brain if we're being honest."
Camille's arc is much wider than Darius', making it easier to hit, but darius covers all 360 degrees.
" I know you are going to misconstrue my words"
Like you've been doing, since i have to keep reiterating what I'm saying because you come up with some random idea that you pulled out of your rear
"but hey, you love to prove people wrong by using your sheer stupidity"
It's funny that the only reason I even responded to you the first time was because you whined about the 'Ad hominem' attack, and yet in every post you're getting even more and more upset because you can't come up with a sound argument.
Razelth1 votes"(It has an area of effect, it isn't a point and click) although it only affects one target. "
"Area of effect (or AoE) is a term used in many role-playing and strategy games to describe attacks or spells that can affect multiple targets within a specified area*." "Area of effect (often known as AoE) refers to an area with radius in where all enemies can be affected by the effect. Skill gems with an area of effect have the AoE gem tag." "Area of effect refers to skills or other gameplay mechanics that affect CREATURES in a specific range to the target." That's from three different game wikis. I'm not planning to argue past this. You're just troling at this point.
Baron Von Garen2 votesYou still didn't read what I said.
Nice attempt tho.
Edit: Also, since you like to nitpick things, it is technically AOE
If there are 3 minions and one champion, it will hit all 4 targets #AOE
ModWulf Helhammer27 votesYeah, if only Vayne had to like keep attacking the target to get the TD, and only can attack the same target without it falling off, meaning if you bring multiple people she isn’t as effective.
Oh wait.
Critmaster Garen10 votes[{quoted}](name=Wilk Łucznik,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BiwtyRuo,comment-id=00040001,timestamp=2019-01-21T18:34:44.053+0000)
Yeah, if only Vayne had to like keep attacking the target to get the TD, and only can attack the same target without it falling off, meaning if you bring multiple people she isn’t as effective.
Oh wait.
OH SHIT, you mean to tell me she has to bend over backwards and attack the same target 2 whole times from 550 range? holy crap, why didnt i think of just getting out of her auto range before she auto attacked me once, and then tumbled for another auto for a proc?
bullshit.
a 2 hit passive with rageblade isnt a restriction for an adc. silver bolts is just free tacked on damage and forcing her to switch target fast enough before she blows you up is practically impossible unless youre playing an assassin.
please stop pretending that this shit has counterplay, especially when her entire kit is geared around mobility, stealth, attack speed via auto resets, and movent speed to prevent you from being able to kite out of her range.
id buy into this excuse if she needed 5 attacks like 
to get a proc off and was just as slow, and not 2 with multiple sources of mobility in her kit to extend her threat range.
rotating through tanking an opponent might work on a melee champion, but not on a ranged champion with easier target access.
Razelth2 votesWhy are you talking about Vayne with Rageblade? Thats an issue with Rageblade, not Vayne lmao.
Critmaster Garen6 votesWhy are you talking about Vayne with Rageblade? Thats an issue with Rageblade, not Vayne lmao.
its also a vayne problem, because a 3 hit passive on an adc with auto attack resets and high mobility to stick to her target doesnt create counterplay.
unless youre playing an equally hypermobile champion, you cant kite in and out of her auto attack range to drop the stacks before she reliably gets a proc off. it doesnt work.
Razelth2 votesA 3 hit passive in a teamfight is hard to proc multiple times. If a Vayne is sticking to her target past a 1v1 or 2v2 fight, she should be dead. This is a team game, stop devolving everything into a 1v1. 14% of your hp isn't a greal deal, when you have 100% to start with. Especially not when getting hit by a mage's random skillshot does more than 30% of your hp.
Critmaster Garen3 votesA 3 hit passive in a teamfight is hard to proc multiple times. If a Vayne is sticking to her target past a 1v1 or 2v2 fight, she should be dead. This is a team game, stop devolving everything into a 1v1. 14% of your hp isn't a greal deal, when you have 100% to start with. Especially not when getting hit by a mage's random skillshot does more than 30% of your hp.
between two autos and a q it literally takes her a second to proc the stacks. please stop.
this isnt even accounting for rageblade.
KFCeytron2 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BiwtyRuo,comment-id=0004000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-22T13:45:05.172+0000)
it literally takes her a second to proc the stacks. please stop.
You do know there's a difference between nonexistent counterplay and difficult counterplay, right?
Critmaster Garen3 votesYou do know there's a difference between nonexistent counterplay and difficult counterplay, right?
yes, and vaynes w has non existing counterplay.
i dont know why people pretend to attack the same target 2 or 3 times in a row on a ranged champion who itemizes for attack speed, with an inbuilt auto reset is a difficult achievement. its not. its really fucking easy.
its so easy that its downright r%%%%%ed to expect her opponents to kite in and out of her auto range before she gets the proc off.
this argument works for like a hand full of hypermobile ranged assassins, not for the majority of the champion pool.
KFCeytron2 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BiwtyRuo,comment-id=000400010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-22T13:49:49.946+0000)
yes, and vaynes w has non existing counterplay.
i dont know why people pretend to attack the same target 2 or 3 times in a row on a ranged champion who itemizes for attack speed, with an inbuilt auto reset is a difficult achievement. its not. its really fucking easy.
its so easy that its downright r%%%%%ed to expect her opponents to kite in and out of her auto range before she gets the proc off.
this argument works for like a hand full of hypermobile ranged assassins, not for the majority of the champion pool.
"vaynes w has non existing counterplay" "i dont know why people pretend [getting damage from Silver Bolts is] a difficult achievement. its not. its really fucking easy."
Okay, I guess you don't understand the difference, then.
Critmaster Garen2 votes"vaynes w has non existing counterplay" "i dont know why people pretend [getting damage from Silver Bolts is] a difficult achievement. its not. its really fucking easy."
Okay, I guess you don't understand the difference, then.
mechanical counterplay implies that you can actually play around the ability and avoid the damage by outplaying her.
you cant outplay her auto attacking you 3 times in the matter of a second, much less 2 times with rageblade.
KFCeytron2 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BiwtyRuo,comment-id=00040001000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-22T14:19:53.284+0000)
mechanical counterplay implies that you can actually play around the ability and avoid the damage by outplaying her.
you cant outplay her auto attacking you 3 times in the matter of a second, much less 2 times with rageblade.
Maybe you can't. But some people can. Thus, the counterplay exists; it's just not super easy. QED. Have you tried hitting her with a quick Exhaust? It's a strong AS slow and really throws off an attack-move rhythm. You could also try hitting her with CC that interferes with autos (blind, stun, etc.) or using an ability that dodges autos (like Jax E).
If you want to build against it, try slowing down her autos with something like Randuin's or Frozen Heart.
Ignika D2 votesMaybe you can't. But some people can. Thus, the counterplay exists; it's just not super easy. QED. Have you tried hitting her with a quick Exhaust? It's a strong AS slow and really throws off an attack-move rhythm. You could also try hitting her with CC that interferes with autos (blind, stun, etc.) or using an ability that dodges autos (like Jax E).
If you want to build against it, try slowing down her autos with something like Randuin's or Frozen Heart.
exhaust no longer remove atck speed
The Bad Touch2 votesMaybe you can't. But some people can. Thus, the counterplay exists; it's just not super easy. QED. Have you tried hitting her with a quick Exhaust? It's a strong AS slow and really throws off an attack-move rhythm. You could also try hitting her with CC that interferes with autos (blind, stun, etc.) or using an ability that dodges autos (like Jax E).
If you want to build against it, try slowing down her autos with something like Randuin's or Frozen Heart.
What year did you last play. Exhaust hasn't lowered AS in years. No one runs it anymore either. Ignite is just a shit ton stronger.
I mean you are talking about outplay... and you don't even know what the summoners do... lol. Also the discussion is about true damage.. with exhaust doesn't even reduce.
The Bad Touch2 votesVayne kills a target in 5 seconds: broken OP. Anyone else takes more than one second to kill something: unviable.
You don't read so well do you? Try again. This time read ALL the words before you check your phone for SM updates. You can do it if you try.
Here are some important words you might have missed while tweeting what you were eating.
600 armor THROUGH exhaust with JUST her true damage by ONLY r-clicking in under 5 seconds.
Let me break it down for you.
A 600 armor tank. Something that nearly never happens in modern league. This would normally reduce the damage of a physical damage champion by 85.7%
Through a 40% damage reduction summoner that lasts for 2.5 seconds out of that.
The physical damage deal here was even completely disregarded. With the physical damage added back in it would be faster.
Without using ANY skills whatsoever. JUST right clicking. Considering vayne ALSO gets significant damage from her Q and R this is rather important to note.
In a real game that tank wouldn't have over 300 armor, no one runs exhaust. and she'd actually... you know be using abilities? She'd kill that tank in 3 seconds, then turn on squishies and kill them in 1.5-2 each. MOST DPS champs aren't also tank shredders AND burst champs with mobility AND CC. Sure assassins can burst harder... but they can't burst back to back to back to back. Wile restealthing a potential 20+ times if needed.
Baron Von Garen27 votes<Removed by Moderation>
Any champion sucks if there are more enemies, with maybe the only exception being 
.
You can't say the weakness of Vayne is getting attacked by multiple people, because that isn't something that you the player can do (You can't control everyone else's character)
It's just a really poor argument.
Lil Homie busta14 votesI don't understand why you got downvoted. Saying "1v5 him" is the same thing of saying "cc him" or "kill him fast". This ain't counterplay, ponto.
ModJikker4 votesHey,
I've hit a quick edit on your post. There's no reason to bring a person's status on the Boards into the discussion or make implied accusations of lack of game knowledge. If someone makes what you believe is an invalid argument, refute it with proof/facts (as the rest of your comment does) and leave any commentary about how they lack game knowledge out of it.
[poppy-wink]
Critmaster Garen12 votesHey,
I've hit a quick edit on your post. There's no reason to bring a person's status on the Boards into the discussion or make implied accusations of lack of game knowledge. If someone makes what you believe is an invalid argument, refute it with proof/facts (as the rest of your comment does) and leave any commentary about how they lack game knowledge out of it.
[poppy-wink]
the knowledge a person has on a particular topic is relevant to a discussion. in case of this game, someone who plays the game at a higher rank (plat+) practically plays a different game than someone whos playing on the lowest ranks (iron, bronze gold).
the rank a player has is usually a very good reflection of his overall game knowledge. this is a generally accepted fact. you cant construct a valid argument on lacking game knowledge.
i dont agree that you should moderate posts when someone is pointing out the other persons rank as part of his argument.
its like watching a discussion between a high schooler and someone who has a degree in math, and then a moderator dropping in and censoring the guy with the degree just because hes pointing out that he has more experience on the topic, because it could make the high schooler feel bad.
KFCeytron2 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BiwtyRuo,comment-id=00040001000100050000,timestamp=2019-01-22T15:59:46.740+0000)
the knowledge a person has on a particular topic is relevant to a discussion. in case of this game, someone who plays the game at a higher rank (plat+) practically plays a different game than someone whos playing on the lowest ranks (iron, bronze gold).
the rank a player has is usually a very good reflection of his overall game knowledge. this is a generally accepted fact. you cant construct a valid argument on lacking game knowledge.
i dont agree that you should moderate posts when someone is pointing out the other persons rank as part of his argument.
its like watching a discussion between a high schooler and someone who has a degree in math, and then a moderator dropping in and censoring the guy with the degree just because hes pointing out that he has more experience on the topic, because it could make the high schooler feel bad.
How ironic is it that you're posting this from a level 12 forum smurf?
Beast Brawler2 votesOutnumbering someone to kill them is technically counterplay but not a good design at all, and when most people say counterplay they mean what can you do by yourself to counter a mechanic or ability or make it less effective. Vayne's W should be flat not %MaxHP, and she should have more and better counterplay than just "Bring more people and cc her, duh."
The Bad Touch3 votes[{quoted}](name=Beast Brawler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BiwtyRuo,comment-id=000400010006,timestamp=2019-01-23T10:18:46.980+0000)
Outnumbering someone to kill them is technically counterplay but not a good design at all, and when most people say counterplay they mean what can you do by yourself to counter a mechanic or ability or make it less effective. Vayne's W should be flat not %MaxHP, and she should have more and better counterplay than just "Bring more people and cc her, duh."
A lot of assassin players, and high dps duelers/fighters think that balance = well 5 people could burst me fast. Boggles my mind. Hell at this point except for champs with unvuln ultis EVERY champ gets bursted damn near instantly by 5 champs.
Beast Brawler2 votesYeah it's really not good design at all, Kayle can last as long as a tank later in the game. Damage really needs to be toned down some, and/or resistances and tank items buffed, because tanks don't feel very good to play at all right now.
The entire team10 votesOnly Vayne and Fiora have it. Vayne is destroyed early, and Fiora can’t deal the true damage if she doesn’t hit those marks. Mundo and Volibear would run rampant if they did get rid of % true damage.
Tahminatrix 27 votesVayne isn't destroyed early by tanks, she is strong against them from beginning to end, so theres that.
Problem here is vayne is SOOOO specialized against tanks that riot HAD to buff her to make her useful outside of a tank meta, now she lost her tradeoffs with who she is good against and only needs to scale.
They need to increase the base/minimum damage on her W and decrease the % max health damage.
The entire team5 votes[{quoted}](name=Super Cow Swag,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BiwtyRuo,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-01-21T17:08:11.432+0000)
Vayne isn't destroyed early by tanks, she is strong against them from beginning to end, so theres that.
Did I say anything about tanks? I said that Vayne is destroyed early, and tanks would run rampant without that % true damage. Play a champ with sustain or an initiator and burst her down. Her base HP is paltry, her sustain isn’t natural unless she rushes Vamp Scepter and the % true damage doesn’t hurt as much early as it does later.
Tahminatrix 5 votesYou said vayne is destroyed early which is generic and untrue, she is not destroyed early by tanks she infact functions very well against them during laning phase.
The entire team3 votes[{quoted}](name=Super Cow Swag,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BiwtyRuo,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-21T18:33:29.475+0000)
You said vayne is destroyed early which is generic and untrue, she is not destroyed early by tanks she infact functions very well against them during laning phase.
Again, I never said anything about tanks against Vayne. Mundo and Volibear are health-based fighters. Pit her against a ranged, a mobile bruiser or someone who can sustain well against her. Or better yet, have the jungler gank your lane. If you hate her that much, take advantage that she can’t handle two champs at the same time, or that she gets out damaged by her shitty HP.
The Bad Touch4 votes[{quoted}](name=The entire team,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BiwtyRuo,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-21T18:54:24.041+0000)
Again, I never said anything about tanks against Vayne. Mundo and Volibear are health-based fighters. Pit her against a ranged, a mobile bruiser or someone who can sustain well against her. Or better yet, have the jungler gank your lane. If you hate her that much, take advantage that she can’t handle two champs at the same time, or that she gets out damaged by her shitty HP.
It ain't hard to farm under tower.
She doesn't have to get poked. All she has to do is build 2 items... and melt the hell out of your front line faster than you can melt theirs...
Woot cait has more range... yay!.... However Caits tanks died in 3 seconds and she loses 3v5.
80% of games come down to front to back fights where the team that blows the other team up first wins.
And the truth is Vayne will kill a Rammus before Cait can even kill an AP Galio with Aftershock.
The Bad Touch7 votes[{quoted}](name=The entire team,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BiwtyRuo,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-01-21T17:12:16.566+0000)
Did I say anything about tanks? I said that Vayne is destroyed early, and tanks would run rampant without that % true damage. Play a champ with sustain or an initiator and burst her down. Her base HP is paltry, her sustain isn’t natural unless she rushes Vamp Scepter and the % true damage doesn’t hurt as much early as it does later.
Except she isn't destroyed early because she lanes with some BS like Zyra//Neeko/Lux/Brand The moment she builds a BOTRK now it's faceroll mode activated.
Why you ask? Because her ulti tumble CD buff effectively let's her trade autos one for one... in which case she wins because it's stormrazor vs BOTRK.... and Stormrazor takes 3 second to recycle.
The entire team2 votes[{quoted}](name=The Bad Touch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BiwtyRuo,comment-id=0001000000000001,timestamp=2019-01-21T21:56:48.331+0000)
Except she isn't destroyed early because she lanes with some BS like Zyra//Neeko/Lux/Brand The moment she builds a BOTRK now it's faceroll mode activated.
Why you ask? Because her ulti tumble CD buff effectively let's her trade autos one for one... in which case she wins because it's stormrazor vs BOTRK.... and Stormrazor takes 3 second to recycle.
Then play one that outdamages her with a hard engage support to zero in on killing her or a sustain support to help you farm to be on equal levels. Draven as an ADC destroys her (Conqueror), Caitlyn can bully her (Stormrazor), and late game Tristana and Ezreal (Trinity Force and Bloodthirster) outranges her greatly.
Also, Stormrazor is cheaper by 400 gold and meant to burst the target down, which is much faster than Botrk’s shred. If the target is still living after 4 second of autoattacking, then the ADC is underfed. Therefore, your point is rendered moot.
The Bad Touch4 votes[{quoted}](name=The entire team,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BiwtyRuo,comment-id=00010000000000010000,timestamp=2019-01-21T22:09:13.212+0000)
Then play one that outdamages her with a hard engage support to zero in on killing her or a sustain support to help you farm to be on equal levels. Draven as an ADC destroys her (Conqueror), Caitlyn can bully her (Stormrazor), and late game Tristana and Ezreal (Trinity Force and Bloodthirster) outranges her greatly.
Also, Stormrazor is cheaper by 400 gold and meant to burst the target down, which is much faster than Botrk’s shred. If the target is still living after 4 second of autoattacking, then the ADC is underfed. Therefore, your point is rendered moot.
So your answer to people dealing too much damage... is to deal even more damage back.
Do you work for Riots balance team? If not maybe you should apply.
The entire team1 votes[{quoted}](name=The Bad Touch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BiwtyRuo,comment-id=000100000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-01-21T22:11:20.685+0000)
So your answer to people dealing too much damage... is to deal even more damage back.
Do you work for Riots balance team? If not maybe you should apply.
Outdamaging her is one way. Outranging her, poking her down, CCing her, initiate on her, starve her with a jungler, swat her away, play smarter, gitting gud, etc.
If you had the brains to reply and the gall to compare me to the balance team’s philosophy, then maybe you can just keep losing to her repeatedly.
The Bad Touch4 votes[{quoted}](name=The entire team,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BiwtyRuo,comment-id=0001000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-21T22:29:23.449+0000)
Outdamaging her is one way. Outranging her, poking her down, CCing her, initiate on her, starve her with a jungler, swat her away, play smarter, gitting gud, etc.
If you had the brains to reply and the gall to compare me to the balance team’s philosophy, then maybe you can just keep losing to her repeatedly.
A lot of people are evidently because she's over 50% win rate as a tank shredder in a meta where no one wants to play tanks... lol
She'd be a hell of a lot higher than that if tanks weren't so god awful and saw play.
And FYI the only tanks in the top 50 most played champions are 3 supports .... Thresh, Leo, Blitz. Who due to lower income and itemization generally aren't at tanky as what you'd see with a Top or Jungle tank.
No one even plays the shit she's supposed to counter, and she's still outperforming most champs.
The entire team1 votes[{quoted}](name=The Bad Touch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BiwtyRuo,comment-id=00010000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-21T22:36:27.409+0000)
A lot of people are evidently because she's over 50% win rate as a tank shredder in a meta where no one wants to play tanks... lol
She'd be a hell of a lot higher than that if tanks weren't so god awful and saw play.
And FYI the only tanks in the top 50 most played champions are 3 supports .... Thresh, Leo, Blitz. Who due to lower income and itemization generally aren't at tanky as what you'd see with a Top or Jungle tank.
No one even plays the shit she's supposed to counter, and she's still outperforming most champs.
She is known to pubstomp noobs and cheese toplane against bruisers, plus her high skill requirement allows her to do some really good plays, considering she is a mobile ranged marksman with a steroid .
I don’t even know what you want from this argument anymore. Vayne isn’t OP because of her counterplays. She’s supposed to be strong when she gets items, just like any other damn ADC, and she was made to shred tanks harder than any other marksman. Doesn’t mean that she can be shredded herself.
The Bad Touch4 votes[{quoted}](name=The entire team,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BiwtyRuo,comment-id=000100000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-21T22:48:25.733+0000)
She is known to pubstomp noobs and cheese toplane against bruisers, plus her high skill requirement allows her to do some really good plays, considering she is a mobile ranged marksman with a steroid .
I don’t even know what you want from this argument anymore. Vayne isn’t OP because of her counterplays. She’s supposed to be strong when she gets items, just like any other damn ADC, and she was made to shred tanks harder than any other marksman. Doesn’t mean that she can be shredded herself.
You're right it isn't.
You just said "pubstomp noobs."
ROFL
She has a 53.53% win rate in Challenger.
Guess we need to tell all these noob challenger players that she isn't good.
She's in the top 5 most picked challenger ADCs and has the 3rd highest win rate of those 5.
The entire team1 votes[{quoted}](name=The Bad Touch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BiwtyRuo,comment-id=0001000000000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-21T22:53:07.069+0000)
You're right it isn't.
You just said "pubstomp noobs."
ROFL
She has a 53.53% win rate in Challenger.
Guess we need to tell all these noob challenger players that she isn't good.
She's in the top 5 most picked challenger ADCs and has the 3rd highest win rate of those 5.
Win rates don’t win games.
How did this derail from %true damage anyway?
The Bad Touch5 votes[{quoted}](name=The entire team,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BiwtyRuo,comment-id=00010000000000010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-21T22:57:31.164+0000)
Win rates don’t win games.
How did this derail from %true damage anyway?
"Win rates don’t win games."
/facepalm
Tell you what. I'll bet you $100 every game for a hundred games you take a 43% WR champ, I'll take a 54% WR champ.
I could use a new PC.
