The theory of elo hell

evan4897··1 votes·733 views

DISCLAIMER: This is NOT me saying I deserve a higher ELO than I have or anything. I am content with learning the game at the rate I am and climbing steadily. I just feel that this system isn't super great and just need to sort of vent out a little bit.

So I've been playing a lot of solo queue lately and have noticed a trend. People claim elo hello doesn't exist and blah blah blah, we've all heard this before, right? Well it's true. It doesn't exist PERMANENTLY but it does exist.

The problem is that you have tilted people playing with OTHER tilted people and so it feels like this "Oh man my team is bad!!!!" and, to a certain extent that could be true but really, it's just a bunch of tilted people who refuse to take a break and end up ruining the game for each other.

However, if you are better than your elo, you will climb.

There are a PLETHORA of youtube videos claiming this and it's just fact. However, they never tell really you that disclaimer that it will take a super long time because of so many different variables.

In high gold, platinum, etc. you can climb quicker because you have teams that do understand how a game is still winnable, don't give up AS OFTEN (you still have this in EVERY elo) and thus the playing ground is more even.

ALSO the amount of smurfs in gold 5-3 is kind of obnoxious. I am not going to say I'm a god or super great but, I've played with plenty of D1 players and so I understand IN LANE how to stay neutral at the least. It is hard to do that for the entire team though because they may not be as experienced. So you have a bit of a staled out thing but that's a different topic.

What about other systems? I feel as though the system ( and I understand it is super easy to just implement a new system) What about how ( hear me out) Halo 3 or COD MW2 worked back in the day? The good players rose to the top and you could solo carry games all day long. There were PLENTY of comebacks and times to turn up the jets to get that winning triple kill 360/no-scope to win the game. I feel like that time in this game has come and gone.

Granted, I've only been playing for almost a year now but, why isn't it like that? Why isn't it as simple as that? Because in those game, while you do have a team, you aren't really reliant on your team at all. If they feed? So what, go out and get 50 kills and carry. In this? You die 3 times before 10 minutes, and if the team knows what they're doing, that spells out a tough to win/loss match. Now, that creates incentive to play better and such but, there's not a comeback, consistent element like there should be.

The entire point of all of this is saying: When people say you will get to your division if you're good enough, etc. they are right! But there needs to be an admission that ELO HELL exists in every elo in some way, shape or form. They do exist but they are escapable.

That's the thing is that people claim they are inescapable and they deserve to blame their teammates and yada yada yada. I argue that it's OKAY to say elo hell does OR doesn't exist to you. That's fine. However, I believe that it does to SOME extent across EVERY elo on any given day.

TL:DR ELO hell is a reality that is cured (or ruined) by a perspective and/or hard work.

5 Comments

4ManVotedAgainst2 votes

Elo-Hell DOES exist but NOT by nay-sayers' definitions (Impossible-to-Get-Out ? That is the wrong definition. Too much time-consumption to the point where the rewards are not worth the time or effort ? Yes, definitely, and I would even be WILLING to bet REAL MONEY that NOT EVEN a DIAMOND-Player would be able to carry my account if he was ONLY going SOLO-QUEUE with it [and I mean SOLO-ONLY, NONE of that Duo or Partner or taking any other players with him crap, because even I can get back up into Gold very quickly with a consistently competent-team [and I now have a Dynamic-Queue Group whom I joined with earlier today where we MUCH-more-easily-than-can-be-done-in-SOLO-Queue won ALL of our matches as a Dynamic-Queue earlier this morning], but I do NOT get that in SOLO-Queue, and for some reason NONE of my other accounts have this kind of problem with match-making, therefore I AM willing to make some easy money off an arrogant-diamond by making BETS that they CANNOT do it in LESS than 250 games of SOLO-Queue OR it WILL take MORE time than TWO whole ENTIRE MONTHS to do so {did I mention, SOLO, and NOT with ANY Duo/Trio/Quad-Patners ?}]). Also, Elo-Style Rank-Systems are absolutely worthless numbers except at the upper 3% or so of the player-pool. The issue with any kind of Elo-Style System is that they usually only take ONE number into account (sometimes two as in the system we have now which are the MMR and LP) which does not reflect the various variables of a player's strength.

For the record, Elo-Hell is complained about even in CHESS-Communities by CHESS-Players, and the reasons are similar, because it's faster for them to get a 2000-rated account simply from starting a NEW account instead of playing any account that was tanked down into the lower-echelons of 1250 or below Elo. The same situation also applies in League, unless you are some-how cheating, finding some other ways within which to basically "farm" Rank-Numbers (like Queue-Dodging every single problem-match until the Reset-Time where you'll still only lose a maximum of 3LP for the next Queue-Dodge until you have favourable matches instead of going against teams that pick combinations of things like Vlad + Lux + Illaoi + Mundo + Quinn against your team of n00bs who decided to put together a composition like Akali + Talon + Fizz + Zix + Sona [the main reason a Vlad/Lux/Illaoi/Mundo/Quinn team will win 90% of the time against a Akali/Talon/Fizz/Zix/Sona team is because the latter-team has no real sieging potential, have no tank, and are facing against the the enemy team's superior wave-clear and against that team's ability to force massive amounts of split-push pressure due to Vlad's split-pushing safety and Quinn's high-speed split-pushing with high-speed escapability and ridiculously broken damage as of right now, then throw in Udyr to replace Sona and I'd change the winning chances of the first team to be 100% amongst any competent players using the first team's composition]).

Let us assess the variables & factors that are NOT taken into account regarding player-strength, starting with Chess-players, then I will cover the list for League-players...

Chess : ➜ Knowledge/Experience of Effective Pawn-Structures ➜ Knowledge/Experience of Openings (the starting moves & initial set-ups on the board) ➜ Knowledge/Experience of Effective-Use of Knights ➜ Knowledge/Experience of Effective-Use of Bishops ➜ Knowledge/Experience of Effective-Use of Rooks ➜ Knowledge/Experience of WHEN to Castle ➜ Knowledge/Experience of Knowing Which SIDE of the Board to Castle ➜ Knowledge/Experience of when or not to make Offensive-Moves ➜ Knowledge/Experience of defensive-structures of board-positioning ➜ Understanding of When a Piece Can be Sacrificed For an Advantage (I Have Even Played Matches Before Where I Allowed My Own Queen to be Sacrificed Which Eventually Resulted in an Advantage That Allowed Me to Obtain Several More Queens and Win in the End) ➜ Knowledge/Experience of How to Close-Out a Match Into Check-Mate When Opportunity Available

I may not have covered ALL of the various factors of chess-playing but the above are at least SOME of the BASICS. Now For League : ➜ Last-Hitting Mechanics ➜ Team-Fight Mechanics ➜ Harass-Mechanics ➜ Knowledge of Team-Compositions & Strengths/Weaknesses of Team-Compositions ➜ Effective Rotation & Timing of Rotations For Objectives-Control ➜ Communication-Effectiveness via Pinging ➜ Whether Player Warn-Pings of Wandering Enemies or Not ➜ The paying attention to location of enemy jungler ➜ Knowing Item-Strengths/Weaknesses For Effective-Builds ➜ Counter-Picking or Counter-Playing Knowledge ➜ Tracking of Dragon-Timers/Spawns or Not ➜ Knowing When and When NOT to go for Baron (MOST of the time in Silver & Below Ranks the Baron WILL be a THROW For the Team That Goes For Him) ➜ Knowing When to Team-Fight Versus When to Split-Push ➜ The Paying Attention as to Whether Entire Team is Together BEFORE Fighting or Not ➜ The Pinging of Non-Grouped Team-Members to Re-Group With Team or Not ➜ Avoiding ANY Kind of Risky Plays During Team-Fight Phases ➜ Avoids Tower-Diving Too Early ➜ Low Connection-Latency ➜ High-End Computer ➜ Keeping Track of When/Whether Team-Members Need Help/Back-Up or Not ➜ Aiming For Turrets/Inhibitors Instead of Chasing Past Objectives For Risky Kills Against Slippery Opponents ➜ Reliable Connection ➜ Knows When to Queue-Dodge ➜ Ability to Win-Lane Consistently ➜ Knowing When to Let Own Lane Lose in order to Assist in Winning Two or More Turrets From Another Lane For Higher Advantage (This is a Concept From Chess Where You Sacrifice One Piece For a GREATER-Advantage Else-Where, And For Those Who Have Been Complaining About Always Winning Lane, But Losing Game, Well, Here is Your Answer) ➜ Ward-Placements ➜ Use of Wards/Trinkets ➜ Knowledge of Effective-Use of Runes/Masteries ➜ Reaction-Times ➜ Knowledge of How to Set-Up Ganks & Effective Ganking ➜ Knowledge & Effective-Use & Choices of Summoner-Spells (I Was Told to Take Heal as ADC but I Will Usually Take Cleanse Against Problematic CC-Teams) ➜ Knowing How to Counter-Build Against Team-Compositions (Such as Frozen-Hearts & Thorn-Mails For Versus All-ADCs Team or Lots of MR Against Mage-Teams) ➜ Decision-Making of Which Activities Result in the Most Gold the Fastest (For Example, Last-Hitting May be Important, but Switching Focus to Enemy Champions Suddenly Becomes MORE Important When the Opportunity Arises For a Possible Guaranteed Kill on an Opponent, Thus, Like in a Chess-Match, You Sacrifice the Hand-Ful of Gold From Minions, For a Greater-Advantage of Getting More Gold From Killing Enemies Instead) ➜ Decision-Making of Which Activities Rresult in the Most Power-Spikes the Fastest (Such as Getting a Dragon When Opportunity Available) ➜ Avoids Risky Plays (For Example, STARTING on DRAGON is usually NOT worth the RISK IF the Enemy Team has ANY Vision of Your Team Being at Dragon, Particularly During the Early-Game, But You CAN Get Away With it Late-Game IF You See Them All Scattered & Far Away on the Map) ➜ Effective Warn-Pinging (Missing Enemy Pings Are NOT Enough Warning, When Your Lane-Opponent Disappears, You V-Ping THREE Times Down the River if You Know What Direction They're Headed, Followed by WARN-Pinging That Lane, Followed by MIA-Pinging Your Own Lane, and For Cases Where You do NOT Know What Direction They Went, You Send Warn-Pings to BOTH of the OTHER Lanes Followed by Back-Pinging The Other Lane-Members of Your Team, Followed by MIA-Pinging Your Own Lane, This is Why I Usually Preferred to Go Mid in Solo-Queue, Because Most People in SOLO-Queue NEITHER Ward NOR Do They Win Their Mid NOR Do They Have Effective Ping-Strategies Against Letting Their Lane-Opponent go Gank & Get Fed Out-of-Control, There-Fore, For Mid-Laners Who Complain That Their Bot-Lane is ALWAYS Feeding, Well, Here is Your Answer, Even Though it IS Usually Bot-Lane's Fault For Feeding IF They've Died Before You've Even Gotten a First Item, with only a handful of exceptions where it MAY have been advantageous for you to go bot [but most of the time it's better for mid-laners to reach L06+ and have an item before roaming around], and in Such Case, All You Can Do is Try to Limit the Frequency of Your OWN Lane-Opponent From Getting Fed Off YOUR Bot-Laners via Heeding my Recommendation in within these Parentheses) ➜ Knowing How to Encourage Team For Increased Maximum-Effectiveness of Their Strengths Instead of Dogging on Their Weaknesses ( I will include an example character-story of this from another game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LnbO6H4kWc&fmt=18 ) ➜ Knowledge/Experience of When/How/Where to Position For Engaging or Counter-Engaging in Team-Fights (For Example, I Main Kennen, and I Find that MOST of the Time it's to MY Team's Advantage For me to Simply WAIT For an Enemy-Team to Engage, Then to COUNTER-Engage Upon Them After They've Decided to Start Committing to a Team-Fight, and This is ESPECIALLY True Against Compositions That Have Their Own AoE-Ulti, Like From Malphite, BUT I Also NEED to Stay BACK Far Enough to Keep From Getting Caught in The Enemy-Initiation or at Least Hide in a Nearby-Location to Surprise-Counter-AoE-Ulti) ➜ Know WHICH Targets to Attack as ADC (Everybody ELSE Needs to Focus the Carries, Whilst the ADC Should Simply Attack the CLOSEST Target, Whilst Staying in the BACK of Team-Formation, and Speaking of Team-Formations, Yes, Carries Should be Focused, But NOT at the EXPENSE of Your OWN Carries, Otherwise That's Like That Example Where You Are Giving Up a HUGE Advantage WITHOUT Anything to Gain, Such as Sacrificing a QUEEN in Chess but NOT Getting MORE Queens as a Result) ➜ Effective Knowledge & Use of Team-Formations (Carries Stay BEHIND the TANKS at ALL Times IF a Fight Has Not YET Been Initiated in MOST Instances, The Tanks Should Stay in FRONT of CARRIES at ALL Times When Roaming Together or Preparing For In-Lane Team-Fights, etc) ➜ etc, etc, etc.

Also, the Ability to PERFORM is ONE thing in any kind of competition, but the Ability to TEACH is ANOTHER thing entirely. Stop listening to others based SOLELY on their DISPLAY-Rank.

TheThundersRoar1 votes

Wow.

Not trying to derail this thread but, how long did that shit take to type?

(unless copy paste)

4ManVotedAgainst1 votes

Yeah, took a while to type out, then it wouldn't let me type any more due to some character-limit. I would say I was multi-tasking for about 40-minutes or so whilst typing all that out.

[{quoted}](name=Adolf Got Jew,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=B7XbVQr8,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-02-06T08:44:34.068+0000)

Wow.

Not trying to derail this thread but, how long did that shit take to type?

(unless copy paste)

evan48971 votes

Thanks for responding dude, I 100% agree. I am fine with learning from the experienced but, when they throw a blanketed "you just suck, git gud" slogan on it, it doesn't really encourage or help a player trying to learn. At the end of the day, people like "Pants are Dragon" or "kiliaNcrima" are people I watch to get better because they actually explain that this game takes a LONG time to climb the ladder system with and when they say grind, they EXPLICITLY explain that it's like 200 MINIMUM games to get from gold V - gold I or plat V because, unless you star jumping the skill gaps, you will SLOWLY but surely climb and kiliaN makes a great point in this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KA-SA9ACNiE) and basically he says "You have 50 ranked games and expect to get to gold from silver with 50 GAMES" and it's a good watch to sift through for sure.

KrusherB1 votes

Elo hell is the grind. Its about the system.
Elo hell exists because its the system that causes it.

side bar: A system that doesn't even reset everyone to an even playing field before new seasons. some sport....

in s6: I was 50/30 at 73 in b3 Now im 60/40 at 53 in b3.

in another 100 games if i keep the 60% win rate I may make b1. IF.... if i dont ill drop like a stone regardless of a win rate > 50%

elo hell is the grind of trying to gain rewards/recognition in an unfair skewed system. forget the trolls, afks, smurfs, they make it worse, but the system is at fault.

all that aside. at least the new champ select is 1 billion times better and the games are way way way better as a result. so riot is doing some things right to save the game.

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