Iv been thinking for a while. Im a shaco main. The main thing he needs is his boxes whould have health hit marks. Like how teemo shrooms are or zyras plants are . Shacos boxes die to quickly to champs when it gets to mid to late game. Sum champs only need 1 item to instakill the boxes. That can help him out without making it to over powered. His damage and scaling is fine. I just think his boxes should have a lil survivability against champions
umbraˉ3 voteshe needs to be sion'd asap
Radioactive Man2 votesFor real. Right now he's either absolutely useless or completely and utterly broken. He has no inbetween. He needs some work.
DeadPuddle1 votesHe's currently not on any rework or even a look at list by riot, give it another 6 months, they might look at him then
Miko no Shaco1 votesShaco is only usless in the hands of somone who cant play him. As a shaco main the only.game i did bad was when i was top shaco vs a shyvana when cynderhulk was op as hell
Miko no Shaco1 votesI like the way shaco is
DeadPuddle1 votesmeddler's stated they don't want to touch his boxes HP as it might make his farming too good but I agree he needs work
Miko no Shaco1 votesAnd im only sugesting a health thing against champs. Because to me it isnt fair to make shacos boxes that squishy when zyras plants and teemo shrooms have more techical health. And zyras plants u can instantly.make.em.
DeadPuddle1 votesTired of repeating this. if you add teemo or zyra HP bars to the boxes then they die in 3-5 hits from a jungle camp. There are 3 monsters at most camps so the box will last 1.5 seconds before being destroyed.
Your suggestion totally fucks over shaco jungle. now I know what you'll do now. you say well maybe they don't take damage from monsters or they have 10 HP bars, or they can only take damage from red or blue camp. because I've heard this dumb ass bar hp suggestion hundreds of times (And please don't misunderstand me, I think the idea is stupid, I'm not calling you stupid). you're idea has a really large flaw and adding more rules to fix a bad idea is bad design.
50 + (20-30 x Champion level) HP on boxes makes more sense, has no issues and doesn't need further rules to make it work. but in the meantime we have to wait because noone at riot is currently free to do any kind of work on him. 10 other champions need the attention first.
Miko no Shaco1 votesAnd u obviously didnt read my last post. Its health will be the same against everything else. But "against champs" hold on (AGAINST CHAMPS) it will take a few hits. U mist not play much shaco once a champ gets 1 item ur boxes can be 1 shotted by CHAMPS. Idc about minion and monster damage against them. All i stated was against CHAMPS the boxes ahould take a few hits before dying. Just in case u didnt read this AGAINST CHAMPS BOXES SHOULD TAKE A FEW HITS. Hope that clarifysmy wording
Miko no Shaco1 votesHe dont need a rework. Just that. Chaco is great where he is. He just takes a lil mastering. People just need to quite building IE on him. Yes he is an assasin but u give him a lil bit of takyness a maw and a hydra he can be in teamfights and help his team
Miko no Shaco1 votesAlso dont misunderstand me your logic is what u would call 'stupid'. I understand where you are coming from but pleasse read the full post before insinuating that i think the boxes need more health. They dont.i said technical health like zyras plants they have 1 set health but autos u need a few to kill em but only have 1 set health. Against champions. Everything else is the same
DeadPuddle1 votesJust proves I didn't need to read it.
as predicted
you're idea has a really large flaw and adding more rules to fix a bad idea is bad design.
Miko no Shaco1 votesAnd i dont see how its a bad idea nore is it to much rules. But waht ur saying is teemo shrooms hiemer turrets and zyras plants should get nerfed because thier health is a bad design. Before u speak u should think a lil no offence just a sugestion. But i believe in balance.if they get it why cant shaco. And its a tweak that wont make him any different anywhere else. I meen i can lane with shaco anywhere cause he is my main. But other people cant lane him. It would help only his laning phase. It wont affect his jungle clear cause only champs have a different way to kill it while everything else can still kill it the same. Towers will atill one shot it gromp will 2 shot em. That will stay the same. But champs will have to work for it. Because teemo zyra heimer get thier objects differently. Shaco should too. Riot speaks of balancing all the champs to make them equal in thier own right. Shaco should be equal thier too
DeadPuddle1 votesYou're putting nothing your stating in context. teemo shrooms hiemer turrets and zyras plants are not used for jungling
teemo shroom are his ult and can be used for jungle clear but this doesn't matter, he has to wait to be level 6, a champions state between level 1-4 is one of the key factors in deciding if they work in the jungle or not.
hiemer turrets already have flat HP with 125 + (25 × level) (+ 「 5 - 40% of Heimerdinger's AP 」 scaling for this exact reason (your coming across as an idiot here btw)
Zyra's plant's only last 10 seconds and do a burst of damage in their short time span, their not designed to tank damage from camps
Shaco's boxes are.
you might as well be making the argument that LeBlanks mirror image, shaco's clone, wukongs decoy, tibbers, spiderlings, malz voidling's ect should all use the same HP bar system just because there pets.
Put the health bar design into perspective m8. your making yourself look foolish.
I'm agreeing with you that shaco's boxes needing more health for late game fight's but you're going about it the wrong way.
Miko no Shaco1 votesAs i have stated. The point i am makeing is against champions. Not jungle not minions do u even read what i pit or do u just ignore what im stating
DeadPuddle1 votesExample: Let's give a jungler 20 more AD at level one so they can be more effective at killing champions in ganks.
Knockon effect: now the jungler's clear speed is higher at level one, you effectively buffed the champion twice without meaning too.
This is the same as your proposed changes except the knockon effect is now he can't jungle at level one anymore.
This is my final statement, it's taxing discussing things with stubborn morons. have a nice day.
Miko no Shaco1 votesMoron i might be but thats bien a toxic way to put it. Im thickheaded. But against u who dont read what i put and assume i say other things. 1 health against champions.
2 everything else not a champion does the same before he "gets"changed.
3 read what others put before making toxic remarks thank you
Miko no Shaco1 votes. <
Valrun1 votesSee, the issue with that is the utility they provide vs. the examples you provided.
Teemo shrooms, while annoyingly painful and providing a decent slow still leave you in full control of your character. Same thing with Zyra plants.
Shaco boxes cause a complete loss of control of your character and do very large amounts of damage to their target, especially when you're AP. Imagine the chaos is you walked into a bush with 3 Ap Shaco Boxes and they had hit mechanics. Before you had time to dispatch them, you would be dead. That's 9 hits. Even with max attack speed, it would take you a little over 3 seconds to dispatch them after you are unfeared. At max rank, you're feared for 1.5s without Tenacity. By the time you killed these boxes, you'd be dead, dying or running for your life.
Miko no Shaco1 votesRunning into 3 heimer turrets in a bush. A nunu ult or zyra plants while she snares u can kill you. If you are vs a ap shaco get a pink ward or a vision trinket. One of them is free. Yes there is problems but the game comes with ways to counter shaco. So he is to broken because people dont buy wards or use vision is not an excuse
Valrun1 votesSee, now you're spouting useless information to attempt to keep your point valid. A Nunu ult isn't the same as a Shaco box. A zyra's snare is not the same as her plants alone, though it is part of her Kit. Heimer boxes don't cause loss of control.
I wasn't saying he's broken. I main Shaco and have several hundred games on him. And I'm 200% certain adding HP for champions only similar to Teemo Shrooms would make him the next Satan.
Miko no Shaco1 votesWhat im saying is anything unseen causes a problem. Iv mained shaco since season 2. My whole point with this is shaco boxes are to squishy. Even if you go ap all you got to do is use an abilitie on it and its conpletely gone. Teemo shroom doesnt fear but can hurt and slow u. Shaco can get what 4 boxes out. Teemo can get a hell of alot more. Zyra can pop up plants instantly and root u under them. Shacos boxes fear u away but as i stated use an abilitie on them they die before doin anything