We need more balance in Summoner Spells. Anyone else agree?

Jake Taormina·Nov 1, 2014·30 votes·3,348 views

I feel like there isn't enough diversity in the summoner spells that are "viable". Everyone always picks flash, then its between ignite, smite, heal, exhaust and teleport. I can't remember the last time someone picked revive, clairvoyance or cleanse seriously without trolling. Instead of nerfing these common summoner spells, how about we buff the ones that aren't ever used? Maybe give them lower cooldowns? Or somehow give them a larger impact? Anything to make it so that you can pick them without people raging in champ select. Anyone's opinions on this?

59 Comments

Meep ManNov 1, 20149 votes

summoner 4 Flash should be changed to a dash instead of a teleport. summoner 12 Teleport needs no changes. summoner 14 Ignite needs no changes. summoner 7 Heal needs no changes. summoner 21 Barrier should give bonus armor and magic resist or percentage reduced damage. Cleanse should give CC Immunity for a small time such as 2 seconds and then the reduced crowd control for another 2 seconds summoner 3 Exhaust needs no changes summoner 6 Ghost should cause the unit to be able to move and basic attack at the same time {{summoner:10}} Revive needs a shorter cool down and something else, like possibly a minor gold per 10 seconds boost upon using it summoner 13 Clarity should reduce cool downs as well as give mana {{summoner:2}} Clairvoyance should reveal enemies revealed by Clairvoyance for a short time such as 3 seconds, a slightly larger area of effect, and should have it's cool down reduced by 10% for every champion revealed

FrikgeekNov 1, 201410 votes

Cleanse should give CC Immunity for a small time such as 2 seconds and then the reduced crowd control for another 2 seconds

FUCK NO. CC Immunity is extremely strong, especially when it's guaranteed. You really want that Vayne to be able to do free damage to your team for 2 whole seconds and still get extra tenacity for another 2 seconds? 2 Seconds is all you need to shred people with a lategame adc.

Ghost should cause the unit to be able to move and basic attack at the same time

This would be even more broken than your Cleanse idea. Say hello to adcs kiting while moving and bruisers going crazy on your team while being nearly unstoppable.

GrandMa5TRNov 1, 20141 votes

Flash should be changed to a dash instead of a teleport. Teleport needs no changes. Ignite needs no changes. Heal needs no changes. Barrier should give bonus armor and magic resist or percentage reduced damage. Cleanse should give CC Immunity for a small time such as 2 seconds and then the reduced crowd control for another 2 seconds Exhaust needs no changes Ghost should cause the unit to be able to move and basic attack at the same time {{summoner:10}} Revive needs a shorter cool down and something else, like possibly a minor gold per 10 seconds boost upon using it Clarity should reduce cool downs as well as give mana {{summoner:2}} Clairvoyance should reveal enemies revealed by Clairvoyance for a short time such as 3 seconds, a slightly larger area of effect, and should have it's cool down reduced by 10% for every champion revealed

Agree with all except

summoner 6 Is fine because tanky champ's and those who need sticking power use it.

KingsgraveNov 1, 20145 votes

Ghost should honestly be combined with Cleanse. Clarity should honestly be combined with Heal.

SquirvizardNov 1, 20143 votes

I completely agree, we need a rework on most summoner spells.

summoner 6 Ghost needs a rework as it's only really situational, and only useful on specific champions. This is not my idea, but I propose Ghost leaves a trail behind you that speeds up allies, or maybe even slows enemies as well?

I just came up with a crazy idea just now, what if a summoner spell had a passive buff?

For instance, what Inept Maverick said:

Barrier should give bonus armor and magic resist or percentage reduced damage.

Not sure if he wants this on the active or not, but if it is, I don't quite like the idea of it being an active. Barrier is essentially used for when you're about to die, to survive a little longer to either kill or get away, it feels wasted if you're just only trying to get away, only just to give you an edge of health to survive, I can see it being useful in an escape situations. Maybe I'm wrong, and it could be used offensively.

Here's where the passive buff comes in, what if instead, it were a passive buff? Maybe it could give 5 or 10 Armor/MR, or perhaps percent damage reduction like Maverick proposed, but I much rather like the Armor/MR, as it seems more balanced, so it would be there in all situations. Just an idea.

I also hate the fight between Heal and Barrier, it seems one is always going to be better than the other, and ADC's usually rely on one these two alone. If only there was some difference that would stimulate decision making between the two. I have no idea's on this, at the moment. Even with the Barrier buff I proposed, I can still only see it being useful in solo lanes if anything.

All-in-all, summoner spells really need to be reworked, at least the underpowered or underused ones.

TehNACHONov 1, 20147 votes

To be fair, {{summoner:10}} supports really weird gameplay patterns, so I think it needs to be reworked entirely rather than just buffed.

Like, to any of you who are going to tell me it's about giving the players another chance to recover come late game by essentially sacrificing an early game summoner, I really think that there are better options than an instant revive.

Knight SoIaire Nov 1, 20143 votes

not to mention that it has cooldown and guardian angel already does its job

Wehrmacht BunnyNov 1, 20144 votes

I sometimes pick Clense when stuns are really getting on my nerves, but you are 100% correct. I think what needs to happen is cleanse get a 60 second cooldown to make it a viable pick.

Revive should get only a 2 minute cooldown instead of the over cooldown of 5 minutes.

Clarity is great on ARAM but is terrible on every other map. That too should have a decreased cooldown, maybe 2 minutes.

JamareeNov 1, 20144 votes

All buffing the weak ones will do it shove the strong ones out, like what Exhaust did to CV, heal did to barrier, and barrier did to cleanse.

Wehrmacht BunnyNov 1, 20144 votes

All buffing the weak ones will do it shove the strong ones out, like what Exhaust did to CV, heal did to barrier, and barrier did to cleanse.

Not if they buff it just right.

Ignite and Flash will always be the biggest picks, because Flash gives many champions a secondary escape, and gives ones who don't have an escape, an escape. Ignite will always help in those scenarios where you didn't do enough damage but hit Ignite and let them try and walk it off and die. So giving you a huge edge over everything else.

While Cleanse is very very situation. Most of the time it'll never give you an edge at all, but might help get you out of a sticky situation which most of the time you won't get out of anyways.

But anyways, if they buffed them just right, it would make them a little more popular, but would never overtake Ignite or Flash.

I could see this though, if buffed,

ADC's Flash and Clense/Barrier Supports Flash/Ignite and Heal Top Lane Teleport/Clarity and Flash Jungle Smite and Ignite/Flash Mid Lane Flash and Clarity

Clairvoyance has a one minute cooldown, so I don't think doubling it's cooldown would be good.

My bad, thinking of Clarity.

cshakesNov 1, 20141 votes

ADC's Flash and Clense/Barrier Supports Flash/Ignite and Heal Top Lane Teleport/Clarity and Flash Jungle Smite and Ignite/Flash Mid Lane Flash and Clarity

Perhaps more like this: ADC Flash + Cleanse/Barrier/Heal Support Flash + Ignite/Exhaust/Heal/Clairvoyance Top Flash + Teleport/Ignite/Clarity/Clairvoyance Jungle Flash + Smite Mid Flash + Ignite/Barrier/Exhaust/Clarity

12talesNov 1, 20144 votes

I can't remember the last time someone picked... cleanse seriously without trolling.

I know several ADCs that take cleanse against TF, and ask their support to take heal. It's a valid option.

UltimateCryBabyNov 1, 20141 votes

ignite nerf WHY RIOT WHY?? after that dealt with it (by igniting for poke)

67chromeNov 1, 20144 votes

II can't remember the last time someone picked revive, clairvoyance or cleanse seriously without trolling.

Cleanse was the go-to 2nd spell for most marksman prior to Barrier being added to Rift. Then Barrier was picked, now heal. You can cast Barrier and Heal while under any CC effect barring suppression or silence, which makes removing CC but not removing all types of CC kind of ~meh by comparison. Cleanse doens't remove knockups, knockbacks, pulls, flings, walls, or slow puddles - which can actually make up for a large portion of the ~CC on a team, or in lane.

As for spell choice - biggest problem is Flash. Most of the other summoner spells have some use and reasoning, it's just Flash is so good, reliable, and safe in so many situations it's a flash + something else combo now.

Perhaps Flash could be broken down into 2 skills, one for an offensive burst of mobility and one defense so that it's less universal. Make one like Leap Strike and the other Vault, or have an enemy damage-counter where one can only be used without taking damage and the other after damage is taken, one can only be cast within ~60 degrees towards a enemy champion, the other ~60 degrees in the opposite direction of enemy champions. Something like that.

That way Galio still gets engage and Ashe gets disengage, but Kassadin might be "eh" about grabbing one or the other and just get something like Clarity so he can Rift Walk more.

WheatloafNov 1, 20143 votes

Rather than making Flash less universal, I'd rather them find a way to make the other spells more universal. It makes things more interesting when you can use something in more than one way, and Flash is the only one that truly delivers on that, currently.

EDIT: Teleport comes pretty close; forgot that existed.

EDIT 2: I didn't mean buff the other spells until they can be used whenever, I meant find ways to change their mechanics so that they have more interesting use cases. Remember, even if they're more powerful than Ultimates, they still have 5-minute cooldowns.

chumblerNov 1, 20143 votes

Rather than making Flash less universal, I'd rather them find a way to make the other spells more universal. It makes things more interesting when you can use something in more than one way, and Flash is the only one that truly delivers on that, currently.

EDIT: Teleport comes pretty close; forgot that existed.

Buffing other summoner spells to flash's level would make the game even more shit. Flash is the problem. Period. Full stop.

wolfaxNov 1, 20141 votes

There's just no way to make some things, like Revive, competitively viable. The whole point of fighting is you don't want to die. Anything that gives you even a minor boost to fighting the enemy team is going to be better than reviving because you died.

Knight SoIaire Nov 1, 20142 votes

flash is too universal

if we would have to make lets say exshaust as universal as flash we would need to make it an aoe spell that activates around you and has quite big range and even longer duration and should give you a shield, only then it would work as good as flash

flash should lose some of its universality, its a similar case to lulu whose kits is also universal, it provides basicaly everything so it goes op quite easily and she still can easily dominate a game after all those nerfs

when you look at spell like exshaust it has only 2 uses, to peel or to catch ppl heal can only save, the speed bost is to weak to consider it a good spell for chasing ignite is used to aid your dmg, or to stop a healer like mundo when you look at flash it can, initiate, escape, juke, reposition, close gaps, help kiting, and comboes easy with loads of skills in this game (flash + e ahri combo, flash q from vi, flash ult from galio, ult flash from fiddle) we are talking megatons of viable uses in here , this spell is 100% obligatory despite you being able to use it like 5 times only in a game just because of the amount of things it can do

if we bring other spells to the level of flash they will be stronger than ultimates

GorgannanNov 1, 20141 votes

That's not making it universal. It's just buffing it. Making it better in more situations is what he's thinking.

Knight SoIaire Nov 1, 20141 votes

ofc its a buff because those spells need additional power to become as universall as flash

chumblerNov 1, 20142 votes

ofc its a buff because those spells need additional power to become as universall as flash

Buffing the other spells to flash's level would make the game absolutely awful. Or rather, more so.

The problem is flash. Period. Full stop.

Knight SoIaire Nov 2, 20141 votes

yup

67chromeNov 1, 20141 votes

Rather than making Flash less universal, I'd rather them find a way to make the other spells more universal.

Summoner spells are available to every champion. The more powerful they become, the less powerful the rest of the QWER+passives become.

You're largely devaluing the rest of a champion's kit, killing a part of their identity and uniqueness, and making champion picks more bland by making summoner spells more powerful.

Summoner spells should be like croutons or condiments to a champion's kit, they shouldn't be the main course IMO. Flash immediately jumps out as a problem, other summoner spells don't.

Also - most summoner spells already have multiple uses. You can smite jungle mobs or pets/minions, you can use ignite for damage or debuff healing, you can use heal for health or mobility. They're often just side-benefits that complement a kit in limited situations rather than primary strengths that are always useful.

LlaniteNov 1, 20142 votes

It was stated that Riot is happy with the way Flash works. They don't want complications.

67chromeNov 1, 20141 votes

Quotes/Links or it didn't happen.

doubleguacNov 1, 20144 votes

I think there is a fair amount of diversity in summoner spells already. Heal, teleport, flash, ignite, exhaust, and smite are all, of course, incredibly common. That means about half the summoner spells are showing up pretty much every game, which is solid.

Ghost gets picked on a few niche champions (vlad, olaf, hecarim, sometimes Mundo). I don't think there's any problem with ghost; it's just a more niche spell than flash. It's still a solid pick on the champs who benefit from it.

Cleanse and barrier both used to be very popular picks on the ADC. The problem with barrier at this point isn't that its weak, it's that heal basically does the same thing better. I wouldn't mind seeing some minor tweaks that more seriously differentiated between heal and barrier's niche, so they could both see play. That being said, I still see barrier on some mids who want on-demand survivability, but expect their lane opponent to take ignite.

As for cleanse, it was very popular for a while, but at this point, the huge survival boost of heal and barrier usually outshines clearing a status effect. Not sure what to do about this one, other than maybe lowering the CD, to hopefully make it more attractive in high CC lanes.

Clairvoyance has been underused since S1. Not sure what to do with this one either. It's only really useful for checking dragon/baron pit, but with the release of trinkets, keeping wards on those two objectives is easier than ever. Clairvoyance might have gone the way of the dodo, at this point. It's just not particularly relevant.

As for clarity, the spell was never designed to be competitive. It's supposed to be a crutch for low level players who are new to the game, who have trouble managing their mana pools. it does that job fine. There's no real way to make this spell viable in competitive play, unless you buff its numbers to the point where it's pretty much totally eliminating a champion's mana issues, which would be unhealthy for the game.

DaCushNov 2, 20141 votes

Completely agree

Knight SoIaire Nov 1, 20143 votes

we need both flash is too op, realy too op, it has too many uses and is too safe (you can add a little channnel to make it an escape tool, instead of juke engage escape and reposition tool) exshaust ignite heal smite and teleport are fine, ignite might be a little op because it deals the dmg of mini darius ult, it usualy takes 20 or even 30% of ppls overall dps in a trade

barrier, clarity, clairvoyance, cleanse dont offer anything that would make them even a SANE picks compared to the higher tiers
ghost is up but only because flash is op , if flash gets reduced to escape tool, ghost becomes an initiation tool and works revive needs to be removed because it can cause loads of toxicity (enemy carry is always alive , or a feeder feeds twice as hard)

ShadowParkerNov 2, 20143 votes

It's actually pretty balanced besides for flash being in every game. But these spells would be way better if it was like this:

summoner 21 Give it 15% dmg reduction. summoner 1 Let teammates be able to cast it on eachother (Make it become a good support spell) Much like a crucible. {{summoner:2}} Lower the cooldown, let it show invisible targets for no. of seconds. {{summoner:10}} Cut the cooldown in half but take away the extra movespeed {{summoner:2}} Lower the cooldown and give cooldown reduction for _ no. of seconds (Maybe 7 seconds)

BecauseIAmBlackNov 2, 20143 votes

People need top remember that barrier is useable while CC'd while Heal is not.

BoswickNov 2, 20143 votes

They should just give flash it's own button for 2015 and let everyone have it. That's the only way you're gonna get real summoner diversity.

1 WingNov 1, 20142 votes

Flash is too powerful, but champions like Ashe need flash to live. Yet, those champions aren't viable picks because of their lack of escapes, anyway. . . .

I would like to use cleanse, but it's too unpredictable. It feels like it should "cleanse" bad effects, but too many times, it won't, and you might even just waste it. Like, you can't cleanse malz ult; that seems dumb to me. You want to pick cleanse to counter hard cc, but then it might not even help you! I would like to see cleanse act like this: "removes all cc; for 1.5 seconds, you are immune to cc," with maybe a 150 second cooldown, so you have some ability to protect against all CC.

DreamspitterNov 1, 20141 votes

Flash is too powerful, but champions like Ashe need flash to live. Yet, those champions aren't viable picks because of their lack of escapes, anyway. . . .

Galio.

RezerkityNov 1, 20142 votes

What if we were to remove Cleanse and combine it with Exhaust, letting players cast it on their team as well?

CrimsonRakanNov 1, 20142 votes

Flash no change Ignite no change Exhaust no change Tp no change Ghost and cleanse need to be worked in to the same spell, Clairvoyance needs a shorter CD or needs to place a true sight ward heal no change Clarity no change Barrier is okay I feel like with heals new mechanics it has become pretty worthless.

CrimsonRakanNov 1, 20142 votes

Revive is for lv1 summoners to get back in to the fight. other wise I find it to be a troll spell.

Fnatic JhinNov 1, 20142 votes

MAKE FLASH A QUICK CAST LIKE EZREAL'S TP I have seen way too many tp fails

PokladnicaZlaNov 2, 20142 votes

AYE.

It gets kinda boring only using summoner 4 & summoner 3 as Summoners as a support.If RIOT would buff/rework summoner 21 , summoner 1 & summoner 13 it would be more of strategic choice on bot,than just pick this summoner because its meta....

DuellsNov 1, 20141 votes

I would say that CV would probably be better if it could have "charges" (kind of like sightstone?) It would level up as you leveled. So like at level 1, it could only hold 1 charge. At level X it could hold 2, etc etc.

I think that would help when you're just sitting on it with no need to use it at that moment.

RhyséonNov 1, 20141 votes

Cleanse still has its uses (like when you're against a Fiddlesticks/Leona/Ashe/etc. team), but I agree that it could use a little love to compete with Heal and Barrier. It would be awesome to see modernized versions of Revive, Clairvoyance and Clarity. Yes, change is scary, but I'd prefer to have more diversity.

Wehrmacht BunnyNov 1, 20141 votes

Here's an idea, combine Heal and Clarity together.

I started trying to use Clairvoyance in TT when playing against a.i, it can be effective, but I think instead of it revealing a small area for 5 seconds, it reveals a large area for 7 seconds. This would give it an advantage over Scrying Orb.

chumblerNov 1, 20142 votes

Here's an idea, combine Heal and Clarity together.

I started trying to use Clairvoyance in TT when playing against a.i, it can be effective, but I think instead of it revealing a small area for 5 seconds, it reveals a large area for 7 seconds. This would give it an advantage over Scrying Orb.

It's funny how clairvoyance is even worse than the trinket nobody ever buys because it's so terrible and Riot has never made a single effort to make it not suck.

Wehrmacht BunnyNov 1, 20141 votes

Ghost should be comined with Cleanse and instead of 27% speed increase, a 50% speed increase. Teemo can use his W and run faster then Ghost without having a 2m+ cooldown.

summoner 6 + summoner 1 +50% Speed Boost = Useful

{{summoner:2}} + Larger Area = Useful

summoner 7 + summoner 13 = Useful

CindikleNov 1, 20141 votes

I think each spell should be upgradeable in game at a set level. Make some weaker as needed.

Ghost - No base change 1 - For the first 3 seconds nearby teammates share the speed increase(does not share enchantment increase) 2 - Grants immunity to displacement effects for 2 seconds. Makes it a strong utility spell as well as something to counter the influx of displacments we've seen over the past couple years. It's not a unique CC anymore

Heal - Speed boost removed 1 - Now heals over 2 seconds and grants 30% movement speed for the duration. Heal is increased by up to 20% based on missing health. 2 - Base heal reduced by 40%. Now heals all nearby allies. Heal amount is increased by 5% for every nearby allied champion healed. Some power shift. And some optional utility.

Cleanse - No base change 1 - Grants 20% bonus movement speed for 3 seconds. 2 - Now grants a shield that blocks all CC for 1 second. Cooldown increased by 60 seconds. Reduced by 120 seconds if it blocks a CC. More utility, speed boost option could allow it to replace other options for some champions if you know CC will be a problem.

Teleport - No base change 1 - When teleporting to a ward, you may teleport anywhere within it's vision range. 2 - Cast time reduced by 1 second. But any damage from champions will cancel the spell. Not sure either of these are all that great. But this spell goes back an forth from OP to useless often enough as it is

Smite - No base change (Although this is mostly pointless with the items coming up) 1 - Killing a monster with smite gives you a % of it's max HP. 2 - Landing a killing blow with smite places a light source in it's place. Granting vision of that area for 30 seconds. Unsure if these are all that needed with the upcoming changes. Not only the items but there will be a few more vision options too.

Barrier - No base change 1 - Now only absorbs 50% of incoming damage. But shield total is increased by 5% of your max HP. (If someone deals 100 damage, shields takes 50 till total shield is used up). Duration increased to 6 seconds. 2 - First attack by an enemy champion within 0.5 seconds has it's damage reflected back as long as the attacker is within 600 units. Attacks that would of been a killing blow will still go through. As well as this damage cannot kill the attacker. First one could make it a stronger choice on tanks. With it being a choice this could make it a good jungle option for some as well that need some help sustaining. Although they wouldn't be able to upgrade it right away. 2nd option is iffy. I couldn't think of much better right up front that wouldn't be OP.

Ignite - No base change 1 - Deals half of it's damage insantly. 2 - Target radiates heat, dealing 10% of it's damage to nearby targets. Overall lacking on ideas for this. It's not a spell people have a hard time picking up.

Exhaust - No base change. 1 - Bonus armor and magic resist is reduced by 10% 2 - Targets radiate 50% of Exhaust's effects around themselves. Another one that I tired to not make OP. First one would be a nice addition. Second is overall a counter to wombo-combo's. If people spread out it's not that useful.

Clairvoyance - No base change 1 - Now places a blue ward in it's place for 60 seconds. This ward has 1 hp and is always visible. 2 - Now reveals stealth units within the area for 1 second. Traps are show for 2 seconds. Radius reduced by 30%. *Probably a dead spell either way. Additional free ward could make it worth picking up for many champions. Second option is a needed choice to battle stealth. Although most that were able to use this stealth have been nerfed over the last year because of it. *

Flash - Ranged slightly decreased by ~10%. 1 - Range is increased by 20% when flashing away from enemies. 2 - Prevents nearby enemies from using Flash for 0.5 seconds where you land. Another hard one to do much to. it had to be nerfed first. Other one IMO is needed as well. If you're facing someone you know is going to flash on you to do something. And they likely have option 2. You choose other spells.

AetherKingdomNov 2, 20141 votes

buff ignite, nerf teleport

Hyrum GraffNov 2, 20141 votes

A red actually discussed this recently. The issue is basically there's a lot of issues with any change they make, and while yes, flash OP, it's one of the only truly interesting summoner spells, so its ok that it's ubiquitous. Summoner spells in general are in a decent spot right now (not good, but decent) and there's so many other areas of the game that could get more benefit out of some focus. I hope summoner spells and the rune system is something they'll seriously revamp in the preseason between S5 and S6, though.

chumblerNov 2, 20141 votes

A red actually discussed this recently. The issue is basically there's a lot of issues with any change they make, and while yes, flash OP, it's one of the only truly interesting summoner spells, so its ok that it's ubiquitous. Summoner spells in general are in a decent spot right now (not good, but decent) and there's so many other areas of the game that could get more benefit out of some focus. I hope summoner spells and the rune system is something they'll seriously revamp in the preseason between S5 and S6, though.

As I said before, Riot is also stupid. Flash and mobility creep are the largest problem with the game and balance will be shit until they address them.

Hyrum GraffNov 3, 20141 votes

As I said before, Riot is also stupid. Flash and mobility creep are the largest problem with the game and balance will be shit until they address them.

Why do you think flash/mobility creep are the largest problems with the game?