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Refunding reworked Champions

TheReapersEnvoy··2 votes·910 views

So, from the looks of it, Aurelion Sol has been reworked and many find he is too different/annoying to use, players much more experienced than I feel that. Myself, I've felt that way about a few champions that were reworked, notably Aatrox, even though i payed money for him, i no longer want him as he is far too different from what I actually paid for. Riot however does not offer refunds for reworked champions. So if you're annoyed at these things, and its been longer than 90 days, you just have to live with the changes put forth that you dislike. The legality of this is also...a little odd, but generally speaking in most countries if you are given a product that is not as described, you are entitled to a refund Either that or the service provided has changed, both are typically refundable. Riot on the other hand just says, sorry we're not doing refunds if we change the content you are meant to own. This should change, especially with reworks becoming much more commonplace.

10 Comments

DBS Ronovon1 votes

They made it clear in the ToU that you don't own any of their stuff so they don't need to ask you for permission to change the game or refund you if they do, and you get mad about it.

I do think however if they ban you, and you paid a lot for skins, there should be some recourse to get your money or skins back.

Arcade Lulu2 votes

Why should you get your money back if you got banned? Businesses don't work like that You chose to spend money on the game, and you got what you paid for Then you get yourself perma banned, and lose the access to those goods as a punishment

That's like going to a restaurant and buying food, then you start causing a scene and in the end the restaurant bans you from coming there ever again because they didn't like your behavior. Should they refund the money you spent on the food? Nope

On the 14 day ban reform card it is stated that the next offense would lead to a perma ban. So you don't just get perma banned out of nowhere. But if you keep breaking the rules, you will be punished

DBS Ronovon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Arcade Lulu,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ApBmMfw7,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-08-30T10:31:48.974+0000)

Why should you get your money back if you got banned? Businesses don't work like that You chose to spend money on the game, and you got what you paid for Then you get yourself perma banned, and lose the access to those goods as a punishment

That's like going to a restaurant and buying food, then you start causing a scene and in the end the restaurant bans you from coming there ever again because they didn't like your behavior. Should they refund the money you spent on the food? Nope

On the 14 day ban reform card it is stated that the next offense would lead to a perma ban. So you don't just get perma banned out of nowhere. But if you keep breaking the rules, you will be punished

Here is why I think this.

If you pay no money and get banned, ok, not an issue.

As soon as money gets involved, you enter into a different agreement, and the consumer should be afforded some assurance that what they paid for will be delivered upon. The ToU is all fine and good, and it protects Riot, but it doesn't very well protect the consumer very well from losing purchases. Being banned is one thing for not following their rules, ok great, but what if a person was toxic and was never banned, right? They believed they could just talk smack because riot is weird about enforcing their own rules sometimes, and people slip through the cracks. Then the player decides to all of the sudden make a huge purchase one day, and buy a $1000 worth of RP and get the skins, and a whole team somehow gets mad for the same toxic attitude and both teams report this guy, and he gets Perma'd the very next day after spending that money.

To me, that is BS.

Why? Because there is no clear rule there, its just random and if Riot feels like banning someone or not. Its like some secret judgement system thats inconsistent.

So, taking this scenario into account, if Riot wanted to, they could simply abuse this process and start finding people who recently made big purchases, then ban them for doing what they normally do, which is talk smack in games, because the games are often full of trolly A holes.

Does that make sense?

Arcade Lulu2 votes

I mean, you get what you paid for You pay to be able to use skins and other cosmetics etc But you don't OWN those skins. Riot owns them, you're just renting them. And riot has the right to end that "contract"

Paying money doesn't give you any special treatment or special rights when breaking the rules

If someone is toxic, they will get punished And you don't simply get insta perma banned for being toxic. There's 1-3 steps before that. And on the 14 day ban reform card it CLEARLY states that the next offense would lead to a permanent ban

And it's not random. If you break the rules and get reported, you will get punished by the system

I mean, technically riot could do that (I'm not sure about all of the legal stuff). But why the hell would they do that? That would just lose them their business

You agreed to riot's rules when you made your account. If you break those rules, you will be punished. If you continue breaking those roles, you will get perma banned eventually. And then you lose your account and all of the stuff you've bought as a punishment That's not unreasonable

DBS Ronovon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Arcade Lulu,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ApBmMfw7,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-30T10:46:18.584+0000)

I mean, you get what you paid for You pay to be able to use skins and other cosmetics etc But you don't OWN those skins. Riot owns them, you're just renting them. And riot has the right to end that "contract"

If someone is toxic, they will get punished And you don't simply get insta perma banned for being toxic. There's 1-3 steps before that. And on the 14 day ban reform card it CLEARLY states that the next offense would lead to a permanent ban

And it's not random. If you break the rules and get reported, you will get punished by the system

I mean, technically riot could do that (I'm not sure about all of the legal stuff). But why the hell would they do that? That would just lose them their business

You agreed to riot's rules when you made your account. If you break those rules, you will be punished. If you continue breaking those roles, you will get perma banned eventually. And then you lose your account and all of the stuff you've bought as a punishment That's not unreasonable

Well I know the facts, and I agree with you on what WILL happen, but I am just telling you my point of view and why I think it.

I only advocate for players and their money, because I think people deserve to have what they paid for, regardless of ToU and bans.

Call me wrong for thinking this way, I guess it comes down to how I see the crime vs the punishment.

The crime doesn't fit, because the crimes are like speeding, everyone does it, but some are way out of line and get caught and fined, but no one likes getting a ticket and paying for it.

Being toxic is just words that can be muted, but somehow people listen to toxic players and then report them. Most bans come from chat related stuff, right?

Its stupid imo, especially when people have paid. Consumers need some protection from the possible abuse.

But you are right, Riot doesn't do that, but they COULD. So I think their banning system could use some changes.

Arcade Lulu2 votes

I mean, you do get what you paid for. You get to use the cosmetics and other stuff you've bought on your account

Mute is just a bandaid. It's there so that i don't have to deal with your toxicity. But you get punished so that others don't have to deal with it. Just because there's a mute button, doesn't mean you're allowed to break the rules if you feel like it

I mean, there are no real statistics, but yeah, a big portion of the bans come from chat related stuff. And there's 2 reasons for that: For one, it's a lot easier to detect chat related offenses than gameplay offenses. Someone might just be having a bad game etc, and that isn't punishable. But toxicity just is, and it's just justifiable in any context, so it's easier to just let an automated system take care of that. And for 2, there are no real statistics for this either, but i'm pretty sure there are a lot more toxic people in league than trollers/inters. So that's also a reason why there's more chat related punishments.

There is no abuse. You spent money on this game, you chose to spend that money. You get what you paid for, most likely skins. You use those skins. But then you break the rules multiple times, ignore the warnings and in the end you get perma banned. That is justified, because you broke the rules and refused to reform. You agreed to follow these rules when you made your account. And spending money does not give you and special privileges or right. You're treated like everyone else

Then. What should be changed and how, in your opinion?

DBS Ronovon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Arcade Lulu,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ApBmMfw7,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-30T11:00:15.212+0000)

I mean, you do get what you paid for. You get to use the cosmetics and other stuff you've bought on your account

Mute is just a bandaid. It's there so that i don't have to deal with your toxicity. But you get punished so that others don't have to deal with it. Just because there's a mute button, doesn't mean you're allowed to break the rules if you feel like it

I mean, there are no real statistics, but yeah, a big portion of the bans come from chat related stuff. And there's 2 reasons for that: For one, it's a lot easier to detect chat related offenses than gameplay offenses. Someone might just be having a bad game etc, and that isn't punishable. But toxicity just is, and it's just justifiable in any context, so it's easier to just let an automated system take care of that. And for 2, there are no real statistics for this either, but i'm pretty sure there are a lot more toxic people in league than trollers/inters. So that's also a reason why there's more chat related punishments.

There is no abuse. You spent money on this game, you chose to spend that money. You get what you paid for, most likely skins. You use those skins. But then you break the rules multiple times, ignore the warnings and in the end you get perma banned. That is justified, because you broke the rules and refused to reform. You agreed to follow these rules when you made your account. And spending money does not give you and special privileges or right. You're treated like everyone else

Then. What should be changed and how, in your opinion?

So, I would implement an appeal process that costs money.

Perma bans would go away in a sense. Riot could make more money and keep a lot of players happy. Since Riot wants to be so punishing and teach us all a lesson, they could instead have Riot Jail.

Your account is locked up, until you pay the fine. The process would be exactly how it is now, you would just have to pay money to get your account out of jail.

Why is this a good idea? Because its a healthy medium, and like real life. If you speed, you get warnings, then fines, then suspended license. All these things can be paid for, and gotten back over time and with money.

If they want to pretend to be the lawmakers and punish people, then why not do it like the real world does?

They want money, and people who have it can pay, and people who don't have it won't pay and can make new accounts anyway. That way they get their cut if you want to be a dick, and those who can't pay can be good or get their account locked up until its paid off.

What do you think? Sound reasonable to you?

Arcade Lulu2 votes

That's just like saying "hey' you're allowed to break the law if you have money" (Which actually happens in some countries) And that's just extremely classists. The people who have money can just break the rules if they feel like it, and then just pay the fee and continue breaking rules.

That's such a horrible idea, and not reasonable at all

In league everyone is equal, no matter your financial status. And if you break the rules and refuse to reform, you will get perma banned as a punishment and lose your account. You're free to make a new account, but your old account will stay banned

DBS Ronovon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Arcade Lulu,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ApBmMfw7,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-30T11:20:37.890+0000)

That's just like saying "hey' you're allowed to break the law if you have money" (Which actually happens in some countries) And that's just extremely classists. The people who have money can just break the rules if they feel like it, and then just pay the fee and continue breaking rules.

That's such a horrible idea, and not reasonable at all

In league everyone is equal, no matter your financial status. And if you break the rules and refuse to reform, you will get perma banned as a punishment and lose your account. You're free to make a new account, but your old account will stay banned

Classist? We are all Equal?

What about Tyler1? What about me buying skins? Should I not be allowed to buy skins now, because its not fair that I have money and some people don't?

Nonesense, this is where we have to part ways, you've totally lost me.

Arcade Lulu2 votes

What about Tyler 1?

That makes no sense. You're free to buy skins, but you aren't going to get special treatment, just because you buy skins etc We're all equal. No matter how much money we spend, we'll be treated equally when we break the rules

And it's classist because you're basically telling people they're allowed to break the rules as long as they have money.

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