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Fizz Rework Suggestion - Ability: E

Kingdramana··3 votes·766 views

Here I am wanting to post a little suggestion for Fizz's ''Playful / Trickster'' ability.

Suggestion

What if Fizz remains still untargetable (receiving no damage as usual) while on his staff but the staff itself could then be a target of spells, having a hitbox much smaller than Fizz's own? It could also have the interaction that if hit by a displacement (knocked away, knocked up) it would throw Fizz down, preventing the damage of his ''Playful / Trickster'' ability and also perhaps stunning him for a very short time, like 0.2 seconds. Leona for example could use her sword to connect with the staff and dash towards it so she would be close to the trickster. Janna could also use her tornado against Fizz to throw him down from the staff and prevent him from jumping over the carriers, so could Alistar tackle the staff to throw him down.

Reasons

Well this idea came up during my last match against a Fizz while I was using a Diana. I do have to say I didn't play too well against him. Like most, I am not sure how to play around Fizz's E besides the usual strategy of baiting him to use it. The thing is that when I was already melee against him and he used his E, I felt there was little I could do as not only was he receiving no damage from my ignite while being on the staff, but also he could jump on me for a fair amount of damage that is very hard to avoid if it wasn't for flash. I thought: ''Why can't I use my 'Moonfall' to make him fall from that cursed staff?''; that's just from where the idea came from.

I have felt similar sensations when playing Janna against him .Sure I have this very powerful disengage abilities, yet Fizz can just hug to his E and use it to parry it and also close the gap to attack and murder me in an instant. I would love if he had to at least jump on the side of the tornado to avoid it hitting the staff, so he would still be able to make use of his gap closer and I would feel outplayed, instead of him being able to just care bugs about my tornado and still jump in at melee distance.

My idea with this is that, taking advantage that the assassin rework is around the corner, this could introduce a healthy interaction with Fizz's kit to give its foes some room to counter him. Fizz could still be able to parry skillshots and totally outplay opponents, while also finding smart ways to jump in and kill a high priority target, but he will have to at least be mindful of that Alistar, Janna, Diana, or so, who saved an ability with Fizz's name written over it.

18 Comments

Astôlfo4 votes

Fizz's E is fine. People cry about it too much.

Vallalan1 votes

it really is fine. the biggest problem with fizz has always been his W. it's deceptive damage over time is unclear and it enables the tank bruiser build fizz way too much. (ekko has a similar W passive, and has the same issue)

Kingdramana2 votes

The W is deceiving a lot of times because it's unclear indeed how much damage it's in fact doing, but just as few have stated before the only way to fix the W could be either through a rework or maybe a little indicator that shows the damage you will take after those darn 3 seconds.

The problem is that if they change the passive to be instant instead of dot it would be much worse because he could be doing the same damage and you wouldn't even have chance to fight back, in a way it's there to help you fight him, though the issue is that you need to get used to it somehow, like with most champs. It's annoying indeed.

iceandre1 votes

Maybe. Though invulnerability for 2 seconds is annoying. And if you do not have a movement ability or dashing one, you can't escape too easily the damage of the e and get the well-known combo of his.

Dracocrash2 votes

Fizz does not need a rework.

Also diana HARD counters fizz. She can outtrade fizz 1v1 anyday pre6 and post 6, and has a ranged Q to harass with. Diana can also cancel fizz's Q ability with her E. (by interrupting it and canceling it)

Fizz already has strengths and weaknesses, his win-rate is hovering around 49%~. He doesn't need a rework just because you don't know how to play against him.

Penns2 votes

Id say he probably does need a small rework. Many people find him frustrating but I dont think he is THAT fun to play overall. He has almost no real "combos" or "tricks", his oneshots are rarely satisfying because they are always "the same" and against good players/counters he feels almost useless.

Dracocrash1 votes

What? He has a ton of tricks and he DOES have combo's.

Ap fizz is fine as he is. He has a clear niche and is fun to play.

Penns1 votes

He doesnt have mechanically challenging tricks* and what are his combos? Hit ult if you can, use all your spells, timing and order dont really matter. I also wouldnt say he is fine tho, cause he feels pretty useless most of the time lol.

Dracocrash1 votes

Do you play fizz?

Timing and order are most essential when you play fizz.

One combo is W->Q and R in the middle of Q animation to make it un-dodgable. Then wait for enemy to gap close or tap E for damage.

another one for killing an adc in a teamfight is R->E+ WQ+ zhonya + E out

There are many more micro combo's in lane.

That doesn't mean you cant just use all your spells and face roll someone, but that only works if the enemy is like... super bad,

Penns1 votes

I "main" Fizz, with timing I mean that he doesnt have a time window where its best to use a spell other than the few seconds of his ult, but thats not too hard, is it? Of course you need to time your E to dodge spells, but thats a different story.

Thats basically the only combo Fizz has without using flash and its not hard to learn at all.

That maybe worked once but now 1) E is gonna have too much cooldown and youre just gonna die, 2) a good adc wont get hit by a Fizz ult late game with 2-3 meat shields in front of him, so youre just gonna die doing nothing as well.

I just dont feel like there are situations where Fizz would be worth picking over something else. His "niche" might be an enemy team with 0 tanks, 0 bruisers, an immobile adc and an immobile, squishy mage mid that doesnt build Hexdrinker/Maw. Just that that never happens lel

iceandre1 votes

He is kinda monotone. Every fizz does the same combo. All the time. Sometimes, OK, they surprise you with the jungler but he is kinda...old.

Nothing new.

Kingdramana2 votes

And this is just why I would like him to be reworked too, it would be much more interesting if they changed his kit a bit so he actually has manners to go through the tanks and have real combos. I do find him interesting to play but it's so true that you get bored of it eventually because it's always the same thing. I do wish they could make him a bit more entertaining to play.

iceandre1 votes

He does. Unlike the other champions, Fizz is not surprising. For an assassin, yes, he has burst, gap closers. But his kit and abilities are not like the others. Think of the other assassins. How they surprise and adapt. How you need time and quite a lot to master them.

Fizz has very few combos. And if it wasn't with some of his abilities, he would not be good. He needs something new, innovative.

Dracocrash1 votes

I simply have to assume you dont play fizz at all..

everyone who says he has very few combos is mistaken. He has as many combos as zed akali and talon. There are some exceptions like ekko and leblanc, but they have unique kits.

Fizz needs time to master btw.. look at his winrate vs loyalty..

Kingdramana1 votes

He needs a rework because he seems really OP and oppressing for those that don't know how to fight against him, but then feels real lame and simple when you know how to punch him down and that's why you rarely see him in higher levels of play.

I don't know how to play against him yet, but I will learn after a few more duels .The thing is that I know already that he is kinda lame, he has more weakness than strengths and he has very big counters, situations on which he just feels so useless.

I do think he deserves that puts him on a better spot, so he is more fun to play as and to play against, so he can really show as the trickster he is, in a way that he is not just 'jump on the staff and there, that's all I do special' and more like 'hah, I tricked you!'. His other abilities deserve more strength and the only reason Riot is not giving him that is because of his E, I would love if they could modify it a bit more so he gets into a better spot.

Penns2 votes

Well he is already borderline underpowered, so what would you do to compensate for giving him some pretty hard counters? Also, he does take damage from ignite and other dots/even spells like Zilean Q and Fiddle Drain in his E.

iceandre1 votes

Those are champs that are like that. Ignite and 3-4 champs. That is all.

And unlike the new champions, which have so interesting new mechanics and uses, Fizz remained kinda in the back row. so some changes would be good, don't you agree?

Kingdramana2 votes

Ooh he does take dot damage? I thought he didn't or at least I saw he did not.

And well I am just giving a little suggestion in case it could create an interesting conversation and, who knows, maybe my idea can be combined with someone's else. I only thought of this small window of interaction Fizz could have with their opponents, and of course he does need to be compensated somehow. I don't have anything in mind that could be interesting right now, but I am sure it's possible to give him further strengths on his other abilities, or maybe a reduce of cooldown with his E.

I don't think I am the most suited to think on a full rework because I don't understand much on how it could work and so on, but I wanted to make this little suggestion in case someone liked it. In a way it just made a little more sense to me for the staff to be target of spells, plus it doesn't really matter how low he actually is, no champs deserve to have such overpowered ability like his E that lets him do so many different things (parry skillshot, temporal un-targetable, gap-closer, slow applier, damage, escape, jump over walls) .

I would like him to have a strong kit, with each ability being unique and interesting, not just his OP E and with the rest of the abilities being really simple. I just got this idea that I thought could make his E a little more fair and interactive, but nothing comes to my mind for the rest of the kit at the moment.

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