The Fiddlesticks Changes are bad. They don't make sense, and they don't add anything to the game.

NdleslyLargeAnus··4 votes·3,450 views

Please stop nerfing Fiddlesticks.

Passive

The old passive of magic resistance reduction was still at least a decent idea because a scarecrow should be feared and MR reduction is useful to Fiddlesticks. This old passive tended to increase his total damage output albeit the number should have scaled to a larger amount as the game grew longer. If Fiddle gets fed, a classic solution would be to build magic resistance. Substantial quantities of MR go a long way, as all of Fiddle's damage is through abilities that register as 'repeated attacks' 'over time'. Every time there is a separate instance of an attack, resistances are able to reduce damage individually at every tick.

Now that this passive is gone, Fiddle's total damage output is significantly weakened in every area. 3 out of his 4 abilities are now weaker as a result of this change. They are all, in fact, -10 MR reduction weaker for the 5 separate times that they attack per usage. This is pretty significant, and one would think that it would be only fair to simply tweak the damage numbers in his abilities in order to make up for this lost damage. They have not done so. In the end, this is a huge nerf.

The New Passive

This simply does not make any sense thematically or practically. Firstly, scarecrows stand still, they do not run and get faster briefly for strange reasons. If a Fiddle is committing to drain, he is standing still. Drain is about positioning yourself in time and space correctly to win a fight. Once you've begun draining there's no 1.5 seconds of anything that's going to help you run away. If they're tanking your drain, they're close to you and they're doing damage to you, hopefully your healing can keep up. One of Fiddlestick's major weakness is his lack of mobility. If you are a player that can learn good positioning and deal with these weaknesses of low movement speed, low health, single damage type, no gap closer, high mana costs, difficult ultimate, high cool down times, only 1 viable but extremely risky itemization path, then you might not feed, as much, as the average Fiddle.

This new passive, creates a new thing for Fiddle players to work into their play style but for very little benefit if any. You're not exactly going to get the jump on a target with a 1.5 second speed burst. You're definitely not going to run away from a fight that you were already involved in.

A burst of speed for 1.5 seconds while you're crowstorming is better than nothing but if you fundamentally lack the damage output to kill someone to begin with, everyone can stay in your storm all day and not die. Fiddle does much less damage now, running around briefly is not going to help all that much. Even with the old passive it was becoming increasingly difficult finish off targets even if you landed the ult, and full combo for all seconds. This problem is compounded by the general strength of tanks right now anyway.

Drain

The whole point of drain is that champs with no cc who choose to stand in drain, tanking the damage, while attacking Fiddle, should die. They have done something stupid for attempting to fight Fiddle that way and they deserve to lose. Drain is the only real strength that Fiddle has damage wise. Other champions should respect it. Thus, Fiddle has to have enough fundamental power to win a 1v1, draining the whole time against an opponent that is roughly of similar strength. There are so many ways to beat drain that there should be no need to weaken the damage of drain as an ability. Any champ that has a cc that can break drain can do this. You just put it on cool down just like that.

Permadrain really isn't that big of a deal either. Fiddle is supposed to be a slow but safe jungler. Now he's like really slow and not as safe. The mana costs are so high with drain that Fiddle can only realistically drain a couple of times in a fight before he won't be able to do it again anyway. A lot of people may not realize this but all you have to do is put drain on cool down. You could cc him, and if you don't have cc, all you have to do is simply walk away and then come back. It's really that simple. Also, ignite will typically insta-win any drain-off you might have with most Fiddles. It's really not that hard and only complete noobs will complain about how drain is so op. It's really not and it did not need to be changed. It also did not need to have its damage reduced by way of removing his old passive.

In the new mandatory 3 seconds between drains, Fiddle will be bursted down where he was barely staying alive with permadrain and popping health pots the whole time.

3 seconds not so long?

Terrify

There was a time when max fear was 3 seconds long. Everyone cried so hard late game saying - omg, 3 seconds feels like an hour. "I was just feared for an hour" etc.

This was a long time ago.

Since, Fear has been nerfed into oblivion. There used to be a time where you had options as Fiddle, you could sacrifice a little of your healing sustain and damage for potent cc that could provide utility to your team.

The days of Fiddle support have technically been over for a very long time. 1.25 seconds is a garbage starting point for an ability that costs 65 mana and does zero damage in addition to its effect. Everytime you upgrade the Q you get a whopping .25 more seconds. 1 quarter of a second. Mobile champions will literally shrug this off and gap close whoever they want anyway. Fear has been close to worthless for a very long time. Even if you fear someone with perfect timing and perfect positioning, you will still get snarky comments from your teammates like - why didn't you fear him Fiddle? Obviously right after you just did, because they were expecting some kind of a noticeable effect. This is basically a result of them not fully understanding and planning on how shitty it is an ability.

Also, I get this comment a lot, "why didn't you fear them" - it's a single target ability and it always has been, I really don't get how so many people seem to have such unrealistic expectations of an ability that everyone knows is pretty underpowered.

But, that's fine, go ahead. 1.25 second fear is OP I guess, go ahead and nerf the range. The range of fear is never something that I'd ever heard an opponent complain about ever. It doesn't make any sense and it's merely making an unplayable champion worse. Fear is the quintessential Fiddlesticks ability. He already had to get pretty close to a champ in order to fear it. This puts him in a significant amount of danger to begin with. Now it's going more to a place where a Fiddle fears the right target, begins running away, only to get mauled by that target as the first morsel on route to game ending pentakill. Have you seen gap closers these days? Have you seen movement speed altering item actives these days? Have you seen everyone taking swifties no matter what these days? Holy crap.

Thus, it's pretty ridiculous that terrify is thought of as 'too strong' to the point where they're nerfed the range. All you have to do is keep track of its horrendous cool down, bait it out, and then kill Fiddle and everyone else at that point. It's really not that hard. If you want to nerf a champion, why don't you actually target a champ that everyone already knows is obviously OP and bad for the game. The game is not any better now that an already weak champion is now weaker.

Also, please note that when Fiddle dies [this might be a glitch] - any remaining terrify effects immediately end. There should be a play for Fiddle players to get that fear in even right before they are going to die. It might serve the purpose of saving a life or securing a kill. There should be room for this kind of play in the game. There are all manner of external objects and lingering effects in this game that function after a champion is dead. It does not seem fair to stand by a rule of - everyone else can do it except Fiddle. This has been happening for a very long time by the way. Please address this.

Dark Wind

The only arguable buff in this recent patch for Fiddle is something that I don't even agree with. I think it's a terrible idea. Dark Wind is a point and click. Playing against it is like paying the Fiddle tax every time there's poke happening.

With only 5 bounces, there's a real art to bouncing it at the right time to the right target to maximize your harass or even secure a last hit kill on a champ.

7 bounces is really dumb, and it doesn't take added skill or thought. The lesson is - spam this.

The trade off is terrible. Now that the Fiddle passive does not reduce MR any longer, every crow bounce does less damage. Crow bounces already suffered from low damage problems.

I would gladly give my 2 bounces back for the damage back per bounce. I think more bounces than 5 introduces more garbage into the game. The only thing that controls the other 6 bounces is random programming. Thus, there's less intent in throwing a crow. It's crow spam.

2 more bounces at reduced damage does not help all that much.

I want the strength back to the abilities that I know how to use as a Fiddle player. Everything I do is intentional. I don't want my intentions to be nerfed while random unrelated garbage is buffed.

Currently, Fiddle is not what most people would consider viable as a mid or support. Every recent change has contradicted a stated intention to make Fiddle more or less 'supportlesticks'. These changes make him less useful than ever.

The only advantage to the extra crow bounces is added lane pushing power, this is something that is not a part of the Fiddlsticks play style and it's not something that Fiddle players really need to focus on in order to be successful. If everything else gets nerfed while this gets buffed, it basically works against the very core of what his kit's about and that's very sad to see.

Zhonya

Okay, that's fine. Apparently, Zhonya is OP. Okay why do you have to nerf this AND nerf pretty much every Fiddle ability at the same time?

It just doesn't seem right. The cool down on Zhonya is really long now. I'm not going to say that it's not fair, but it really does put champions that depend on that item at a great disadvantage.

The low AP that you get out of Zhonya is really hard to deal with. Fiddle needs to acquire overwhelming amounts of AP just to be successful. AP contributes to his healing. In this sense Fiddle is kind of a one stat champion. The champion was also designed with Zhonya in mind. The changes have produced a conflict of interest. You say that that zhonya is perfect for Fiddle, but then you just can't get the AP needed to be successful and get zhonya at the same time. Building an early Large Rod is actually going to hurt you rather than help you. This doesn't make sense.

In The End,

Before this Fiddle rework there was much talk that he 'seemed old' or like 'he needed a rework'.

I never thought this at all.

The only thing old and needed was that he was and has been egregiously underpowered for quite some time.

People aren't avoiding playing Fiddle because they don't like him. They avoid playing him because he doesn't win games anymore.

I think that Fiddle, before these recent changes, was a very elegantly designed champion that provided a very interesting alternative play style experience that is unique and extremely different from the experience of playing most other champions.

I dont like playing champions and feeling like - oh, this champ is just like this other champ except this and this.

Fiddle already was good, the surprise factor is fun for all.

The problem now is that even very good Fiddle players are struggling with his strength considering the current state of the game.

Fiddle doesn't need to be more like other champs, other champs need to be more like Fiddle.

I think that everyone at said game company does not fully respect how well Fiddle was designed. I feel that, often these kind of changes get made without thought or respect or proper consideration of something that is obviously already quite complex to begin with.

I think that this rework, albeit relatively small, is a disaster. I think that it was sculpted out of a failure to fundamentally understand the champion to begin with.

The new passive is especially worthless and completely irrelevant.

Thank you.

41 Comments

LazerFruit1 votes

fiddlesticks has been needing an actual rework for a while now, his kit just isn't good

NdleslyLargeAnus1 votes

But see, this is exactly what I'm saying - everyone is saying "he needs a rework."

The question is why specifically? As in actual reasons.

I don't think he needs a rework at all. I think he needs to just have his numbers tweaked. I think he needs to stop being nerfed in some small way practically every other patch.

MrLlamaWaffle1 votes

He wasn't nerfed, sorry to break it to you lol The buffs helped his clear speed immensely. his winrate is up to 53% which probably means he will be getting nerfed.

He needs reworking for the same reason most old champions do, the game, when he was around, is not the game now, it is entirely different. Any jungler worth their salt knows that Scuttler is an important objective on the map. Fiddlesticks has THE worst scuttler clear of ANY jungler. Because when he was in the game, that objective didn't exist.

He has absolutely no dueling potential which means he can be invaded on by any jungler and lose. In low to mid elos this isn't as much of a problem because junglers usually just leave each other alone but junglers that know how to play against Fiddle know that all you have to do is run at him an he has to run or die.

Fear, while it is a signature move for fiddle, is just flat out poorly designed, but again, he's an older champion so some of his mechanics are outdated.

Drain. In a game where mobility just keeps going up and up, Drain mechanics are just poor. I don't even level it anymore on Support fiddle and only get 1 point in it if im jungling.

Crowstorm is arguably what is holding fiddlesticks back from getting any meaningful changes because it's soooooo damn strong. So much power is shoved into E and R that it's hard to tweak him without him getting out of hand.

Dark Wind got better, plain and simple the 2 extra bounces help you poke better in lane and help your clear speed sooooo well. Sadly a point and click silence with some major rng problems really makes difficult to balance. There's only a few silences left in the game, this is one of them and if they rework him I expect him to be losing the silence aspect.

Passive. Thematically the old passive made more sense. Numerically, however, the new passive is better.

Also hourglasses cost went down which also helps fiddle immensely.

NdleslyLargeAnus1 votes

You can read anywhere on this forum and learn about the actual significance of winrate %.

You will find that winrate is not the be all end all. Winrate =/= OP.

You can read this anywhere. Please, don't waste people's time. He's still played very rarely and likely by players who are already familiar with him. FIddlesticks is not the easiest champ in the game.

I don't think that I would ever want to play a jungler who has a kit based entirely around clearing the rift scuttler. Please.

Some things about the game have definitely changed I agree, but I really don't see how Fiddle's kit is 'completely at odds' with the game as a whole. There will always be tons of crazy champions with crazy abilities and with, of course, strengths and weaknesses like any other champion. Fiddle offers a fun and unique playstyle that many people really enjoy, as is.

My point here is that slowly this playstyle is being eroded. Strengthening crows to the detriment of everything else (you can read my point again) is not a healthy thing for the game or Fiddle players. I don't care if it's a buff or how strong or OP it is. You can read again because I already explained why. It's a pretty simply point. Changing Fiddlesticks into CrowSpammleSticks is not only not what Fiddlesticks is about but it's literally bad for the game, because it encourages long distance point and click spam. Fiddle players get good at Fiddle by focusing on other things.

The cost of hourglass does nothing to make up for how weak it is now. The CD on using it is really long. The AP is not classically enough for a final build item in a Fiddle build. Hourglass does not need to be purchased earlier necessarily, the timing of getting it was already spot on. If you don't think so, you're probably doing something wrong with your early game. Like wasting a lot of time.

"He has absolutely no dueling potential which means he can be invaded on by any jungler and lose. In low to mid elos this isn't as much of a problem because junglers usually just leave each other alone but junglers that know how to play against Fiddle know that all you have to do is run at him an he has to run or die. "

This is a strength and weakness situation like any other. If you don't like the trade-off of Fiddlesticks, you should be choosing other junglers. For all the people who actually willingly sign up for his strengths and weaknesses, we actually just want to keep Fiddle as Fiddle because that has been successful for us. If you don't like this, that's fine, I'm glad that your subjective opinion is being heard, but I think most Fiddle mains aren't excited about any change or rework that completely negates his playstyle. If you don't like him, you can pick from 100+ other champions for something else. Please leave Fiddle's abilities alone, or just buff the numbers. If you want to make something different, create a new champion.

"Drain. In a game where mobility just keeps going up and up, Drain mechanics are just poor. I don't even level it anymore on Support fiddle and only get 1 point in it if im jungling. "

This doesn't make any sense. Most people max drain. It sounds like you're doing it wrong. How do you even clear jungle then?

Confirmed, you should just be playing other champions, Fiddle should not bend to your wishes. Please.

Finally, the title of my argument is that 'FIddle's recent changes are bad'.

"He wasn't nerfed, sorry to break it to you lol The buffs helped his clear speed immensely. his winrate is up to 53% which probably means he will be getting nerfed."

First of all, if you're maxing crow in the jungle I guess then his clear speed is buffed. lol. His clear speed is meant to be slow to balance his other advantages, btw. But, if you're jungling as Fiddle and you only put one point in drain then I would imagine that your jungle clear is really slow at that point. So, wow, I have sympathy for you. Those games must be a nightmare. How do you even play a game that way?

In the end, you think the changes are strong, so the changes are good? But then you think he needs to be justifiably changed anyway? So, now the changes are bad again?

Welp, how about this - we both agree. Just undo the recent changes then. Thanks for your support. I knew we were on the same side.

LazerFruit1 votes

{quoted}

But see, this is exactly what I'm saying - everyone is saying "he needs a rework."

The question is why specifically? As in actual reasons.

I don't think he needs a rework at all. I think he needs to just have his numbers tweaked. I think he needs to stop being nerfed in some small way practically every other patch.

IMO his kit just doesnt flow well together, it's a bit all over the place, AOE ult great at teamfighting, but w requires him to be stationary, he needs to have a focus on 1 style

NdleslyLargeAnus1 votes

It's fine that you have your own highly subjective opinion, but please realize that it really is just that.

Anyone who's ever played Fiddlesticks for a really long time and has had success with it, would likely disagree with the claim that his kit is 'disjointed'. It's actually very well balanced. Most people find that Fiddle's abilities compliment each other very well.

If all of Fiddle's abilities where like his Ult, he would basically be a mage that does nothing but nuke people and large areas from afar. Not only are there other champs that already do this, xerath, ziggs, etc, but not everyone likes playing champs like that. And this is the reason that people play Fiddlesticks and not other champions.

If you don't like Fiddlesticks or his kit or whatever, it doesn't suit you, that's fine, go play any of the 100+ other champions out there.

I'm talking about Fiddlesticks as judged by the merits of FIddlesticks, not other champions, because I've played him a lot.

You can reread my argument. There's plenty of content there. If you're not going to read or interact with the points I present in my post, then you should be starting your own post if all you're trying to say is simply your opinion that he needs a rework because you don't even like him or you don't play him that much. Sorry, but other people have mained him for years.

PDE5 Inhib2 votes

His kit isn't good if you're playing a CC-less, stand right next to you doing damage, champ. If you're playing against someone with reliable CC, you will lose. He is good against certain people and not good against others. Not sure what the problem was.

NdleslyLargeAnus1 votes

I'm not sure what you're saying. Your second sentence seems to contradict your first sentence.

PDE5 Inhib2 votes

I'm saying that OP probably doesn't think his kit is good and needs a rework because he is probably playing champs like katarina. So thus he thinks Fid's kit is no good. However, if you're playing against a champ with reliable CC, Fid loses.

NdleslyLargeAnus1 votes

Agree.

tidegate2 votes

Yet he has a high winrate this patch

NdleslyLargeAnus1 votes

Yet win rate is just that.

Feel free to think beyond win rate %. Feel free to acknowledge that I've already addressed this point specifically. Feel free interact with any of my content beyond this mere sentence fragment.

Thanks.

MrLlamaWaffle1 votes

I think they're just trying to help him out some before they rework him. His jungle clear is soooooooooo much better now, but that hardly matters because he still has 0 dueling potential, can't kill the scuttler, and is THE easiest junglers to invade in the game. His winrate is up to 53% after the changes, clearly he's better, but he's outdated and is in need of a total rework.

ValyrianBlade1 votes

{quoted}

I think they're just trying to help him out some before they rework him. His jungle clear is soooooooooo much better now, but that hardly matters because he still has 0 dueling potential, can't kill the scuttler, and is THE easiest junglers to invade in the game. His winrate is up to 53% after the changes, clearly he's better, but he's outdated and is in need of a total rework.

I agree with most of what you said (was coming here to say my impression was that Fiddle was buffed), but I'm just curious, what makes fiddle an easy jungler to invade against (let alone the easiest)?

I mean, doesn't he stay near full hp all clear, and has some strong CC to help him escape / keep himself alive long enough for the nearby laners to respond to the invade and get a free kill? I figured he'd only be weak to invades if his laners refuse to help...

MrLlamaWaffle1 votes

He has a safe clear but if a graves/kindred/elise/nidalee walks up to one of your buffs to take it, what are you gonna do? lol you can't duel them because all your power is shoved into E and that's only hitting once in a duel, they out damage your drain, so you pretty much just have to give them the buff. It's gotten even worse now too, because now the enemy team has a constant timer on your buffs so even the bot lane is invading buffs more now.

NdleslyLargeAnus1 votes

I agree. I think that his weakness in the area of dueling potential is more extreme than it should be. This is why I advocate 1. keeping drain cool downs the way they were 2. not buffing dark wind because it's kind of useless against a single target as it will not bounce and 3. perhaps even buffing the damage output of drain so that Fiddle can at least defend himself. People are supposed to respect the drain after all. Now there's no need to respect it. And 4, does fear have to start as low as 1.25 seconds? I would say either buff drain so people have the option to put more points in fear, or buff fear or both. This weakness of his is a bit too extreme, and over all it makes the risk vs. reward just not worth it to go Fiddle. This is what my post here is all about.

NdleslyLargeAnus1 votes

I don't think he's clearly better at all. Many things can affect win rate including but not limited to people playing him less. The only people who play rarely selected champions are usually summoners who are at least somewhat experienced with those champions.

MrLlamaWaffle1 votes

http://www.lolking.net/champions/fiddlesticks#statistics

Notice how his winrate goes up when his popularity goes up. So no, people aren't playing him less.

NdleslyLargeAnus1 votes

You can read anywhere on this forum and learn about the actual significance of winrate %.

You will find that winrate is not the be all end all. Winrate =/= OP.

You can read this anywhere. Please, don't waste people's time.

10% pick rate is not like - holy crap anyone can play Fiddlesticks and win with it now.

Like I said earlier, if you want the strengths of 1. can duel, 2. can rift scuttle, 3. can defend invade, please pick a different jungler for that. There are plenty of other junglers who have those exact strengths and there are 100+ champions to choose from. Please.

ViashinoWizard1 votes

Please stop nerfing Fiddlesticks.

You realize his win rate shot up with these changes, right? So did just about every other metric you could use to measure champion strength: ban rate, play rate, average damage dealt, average kda, etc.

NdleslyLargeAnus1 votes

CrowSpammleSticks OP I guess. I think it's bad for the game and bad for Fiddle players to focus on winning in that way.

And again, metrics are metrics.

I have found success in games as Fiddle simply on account that people are still not used to seeing him and playing against him often enough. Thus, they don't know how to play against him.

You have correlation but not causation. Please.

Colgate Gator1 votes

Breaking news, the changes actually buffed him and he has been wrecking havoc across the board.

NdleslyLargeAnus1 votes

I'm glad that you have a subjective opinion. Please feel free to interact with one of my many highly specific points. This starts by actually reading any of the content that I've written in this very long post.

Newsflash, you can make your own post just to say what you've said, and breaking the news further, I've already addressed this specific argument numerous times.

Thank you.

Dryditch1 votes

http://champion.gg/champion/fiddlesticks <-- 55% winrate this patch. 3rd placed in the jungle. Fiddle got stronger, not weaker.

NdleslyLargeAnus1 votes

Correlation not causation. See 10,000 other comments.

Dryditch1 votes

An upwards trend of 23 places in win rate as a jungler and 17 in play rate, coincident with the fact that his average playerbase has not changed its number of games on him (still 115ish games per player using him faithfully) means that there is certainly a causation. Determining cause would require them to have released his update separately from the midyear mage item update. Since they didn't do that, we can only assume that the influx of items and his new kit cause his higher win rate, since those are the changes made to him, and the playerbase hasn't changed this patch.

NdleslyLargeAnus1 votes

There are many reasons that can account for a change in one champion's win rate.

  1. Changes to completely different champions can inherently make other champions stronger 2. Changes with objectives and neutral monsters 3. Bans have to be made to other champs that are completely OP 4. I contend seriously that people playing now are not used to seeing Fiddlesticks very often and thus they don't know how to deal with him.

Fiddle went from a 3% play rate to 13%. You can't act as if this data changes nothing.

Please also note that Fiddle is very strong because vision is very weak right now. He's had sleeper potential for quite a while, it's simply that player perception always changes anytime a champion is altered in any way. People were still playing him 3% even though vision was already ripe for him. Then after any change, People at least want to try it out. Lots of people tried Fiddle out again, people started winning.

The way to win with Fiddle is to exploit gaps in their vision. There are way less wards than there were last season.

The new way to win however seems to be this dark wind buff and that's crow spam. This does not require you to play Fiddlesticks well. It doesn't ask you to be a smarter Fiddle player. Throwing crows does not speak to the core of what it is that good Fiddlesticks players do.

Thus, I think this change is bad for the game and I would much rather focus on Fiddle's other strengths. His other strengths are weaker now. I think that spam is not a strategy.

BeatzBoyFTW1 votes

Firstly, scarecrows stand still, they do not run and get faster briefly for strange reasons

We have Brand who can still get killed by summoner 14 & healed by Nami , and you really want to talk about Real Life Logic....?

NdleslyLargeAnus1 votes

If it can be said that Riot attempts to incorporate ideas, concepts, or themes, into the user experience of champions - I am making an argument pertaining to that in an attempt to help them improve.

Obviously. How does water or poison darts do any damage to large stone buildings?

Why do minions visually have armor, helmets, and shields but they have no armor stats?

Catastrop1 votes

They add Middlesticks as a viable thing again which means I get to enjoy the champion that caused me to even start playing this game.

Yes I didn't read your post but I'm on a mobile and it hurts my eyes so I'm just tossing my two cents based on your title.

NdleslyLargeAnus1 votes

I don't know what about this patch made Middlesticks 'viable again' all of a sudden or according to who's opinion that is. I've seen no evidence of this.

I want Middlesticks back for sure, don't get me wrong. But, he isn't less gankable now. He still has fairly extreme mana problems. Now, you get a few more crow bounces in lane. So, I guess he isn't as extremely terrible at wave clear as he used to be. But is this really enough? Especially considering the kinds of mids that run this game, I think that Middlesticks is probably going to get you a lot of negative comments in champ select still.

Zerolera1 votes

Didn't read other than the paragraph about the passive which is the first thing I disagree with - the passive used to warn other players when fiddle was around. This new one is definitely way better especially for his ult.

NdleslyLargeAnus1 votes

This is not true exactly, because they changed that particular passive so that it reduces MR only when his abilities interact with champs. I don't think the new passive is way better at all. There's less damage to all of his abilities now. Fiddle players should be rewarded for landing their Ults very well and not helped if they suck at Ulting.

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

It was an amazing buff.

Who cares about minor mr reduction when you can actually keep up with the enemy as a jungler and become reliable as hell in what you do. 10 MR reduction is a joke compared to how reliable fid has become.

Immense reliability>minor mr debuff.

NdleslyLargeAnus1 votes

Reliable? What at all makes him reliable now all of a sudden and in what sense?

You're not saying anything specific here. You're merely asserting that the new passive is better somehow? If you are, you're not saying how. You are substituting an actual reason with the word 'reliable'.

I didn't realize that 'Immense reliability' was a stat in the game.

EcchiOtakuTM2 votes

MS after staying still= faster roaming after clearing, sticking to an enemy after you drain, easier to get into a spot for ulti, and make sure they stay in your damage and CC.

The new passive is miles far better than crap reduction before. Immense reliability= much more consistency which is far more rewarding than the crap reduction passive he had before.

NdleslyLargeAnus1 votes

Again, I've already specifically explained why an MR reduction passive is way better for experienced Fiddle players, without question. Playing Fiddle well used to require really good positioning. If you have that, you have no need for a movement speed bonus after standing still for 1.5 seconds passive. If you really think about it, you're merely getting only some of that wasted time back that you spent standing still. The bottom line is that this still requires you to stand still for 1.5 just to benefit. The MS bonus also only lasts for 1.5 seconds, and it's not even really that much of a bonus. In the end, you have to lose more time than you get back.

As a whole, the cornerstone of a Fiddle playstyle has long been to account for his squishy-ness and his lack of mobility. Thus, the idea of giving Fiddle movement speed seems like an extremely wonky idea. Damage and sustain is really what Fiddle is all about. The difference between getting a kill and not with his ultimate often results in, Fiddle either gets the kill and can actually be useful later, or Fiddle not only doesn't get the kill, but he may actually die in addition to not getting the kill. Thus having adequate damage output is paramount to anything else. Fiddle literally needs the damage to keep himself alive since drain heals him for 60% of damage dealt - if someone has MR he heals less. Once Fiddle is in the middle of a teamfight from ulting, there's no real running away from the fight at that point. Brief movement speed is not going to make the difference between life and death, while MR reduction actually can make that difference because he can possibly heal himself to stay alive a bit longer.

The only reason I can see that people like these changes is that, they are not very good / experienced Fiddle players and these changes allow them to play Fiddle in a dumber way.

RogueWill1 votes

I actually though it was a buff...channeling his drain count for his new passive, channeling his ult counts towards his new passive. Run stormrider's surge and you can outrun anyone with your ult active making it more reliable.

Now...considering MR works as percentages then I'm going to say (without running any math) that the MR reduction on him is the same as anyone else, just because it s on ticks doesn't mean he gets 5 times less damage.

NdleslyLargeAnus1 votes

"channeling his drain count for his new passive, channeling his ult counts towards his new passive."

Doesn't matter how you proc the passive, the question is - is it actually useful? I don't see it as very helpful at all. I guess it's helpful if your goal is to play Fiddlesticks as if he's some other champion.

Stormraider's Surge Fiddle sounds extremely whack. The point of Fiddle is to provide wombo area damage to your teamfight. The point of Fiddle is not to bait people with your mobility. The point of Fiddle is not to act like you're playing Talon.

With Fiddle it's most important to secure as many kills as possible with your Ult. If you trade some of this power for escaping alive, you're then just gonna have to wait for your Ult cool down before you can really make a play again anyway.

All of these comments are rooted in gross misreading of Fiddlesticks as a champion. This is why I said what I said in the beginning and this is why I phrased it that way. Your comments only continue to prove this further.

RogueWill1 votes

{quoted}

"channeling his drain count for his new passive, channeling his ult counts towards his new passive."

Doesn't matter how you proc the passive, the question is - is it actually useful? I don't see it as very helpful at all. I guess it's helpful if your goal is to play Fiddlesticks as if he's some other champion.

Stormraider's Surge Fiddle sounds extremely whack. The point of Fiddle is to provide wombo area damage to your teamfight. The point of Fiddle is not to bait people with your mobility. The point of Fiddle is not to act like you're playing Talon.

With Fiddle it's most important to secure as many kills as possible with your Ult. If you trade some of this power for escaping alive, you're then just gonna have to wait for your Ult cool down before you can really make a play again anyway.

All of these comments are rooted in gross misreading of Fiddlesticks as a champion. This is why I said what I said in the beginning and this is why I phrased it that way. Your comments only continue to prove this further.

I never said the extra movement speed was to make it out alive, I said it was to make your ult more reliable. Currently Fiddlesticks relies on flanks to be able to use his ult. The most he can do id he misses his ult (which happens more often than what fiddlesticks main let you believe) is flash to catch up. Running Surge and his new passive allows him to outrun any flee champions if you happen to miss your ult to get them in range. The drawback is missing some of his MR reduction but again is not much difference since he is basically a nuke.

NdleslyLargeAnus1 votes

The risk vs reward of the Fiddle Ult is what it is. An Ult that does that much damage to an area should be somewhat of a challenge to use to its fullest potential. If you can't handle this trade-off, play a different champion.

Fiddle does not need to necessarily even flank in order to get off a good ult. All that's needed is surprise. Even if they have vision on you, it can still work.

If you're this bad at landing your Ults you should pick a different champion. Fiddle mains need adequate damage, not help with landing their abilities that they already know how to use.

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