Zoe's sleep in combination with literally any of her abilitys deals fucking damage, people have been complaining about shit like this for years and Riot don't seem to alter her, same with Yasuo but alteast he was nerfed over the years but is now very annoying to play against again, their shouldn't be champs hated by the entire community but people that play them as that is incredibly bias, i believe both of these champions
Janakin24 votesNo. You nerf her, and she's useless. You leave her this way, she's OP. Just stop balancing it and delete that poorly designed shit from the game already.
TheDevice1 votesI see. Also delete 
These are mostly just stat-checky champions who rely solely on their stats to be good. You nerf them, they're useless; you buff them, they dominate their role. There is little room for misplay or counterplay with these champs aside from maybe fiora and fizz.
Zoe already has a 48% winrate. Getting chunked from long distances has always been part of the game 
. Lux has always been able to root your from long distances and delete your shit (and maybe somebody near you) with her low cd ult. "but she needs to get fed". Goes the same for zoe.
Flayn15 votes"for years"
dude she hasn't even been out for a single year
ModPeriscope13 votesPlease use a different term to describe her damage.
I have edited your post as it contained pejorative language.
If you have any questions about this moderation, feel free to reach out to us in the Boards Discord.
EvilUnicornLord9 votesWhile I don't care much for Zoe either and agree that she is extraordinarily frustrating at times, I can't take you seriously.
Lucas Fehrwight9 votesCan we at least agree that Zoe is just a badly designed champion. That is, in more ways than one, her kit is unfair.
Colton1477 votes
was gutted into non-existence and is barely viable right now. She is badly in need of compensation buffs.
49% win rate: http://na.op.gg/champion/zoe/statistics/mid
Ahpe24 votes#C! L! U! E! L! E! S! S!
##What does that spell?!
#CLUELESS.
SugeMinPikk10 votes#C! L! U! E! L! E! S! S!
##What does that spell?!
#CLUELESS.
Which is ironic, considering your inability to realize this dude is trolling
Slythion80 votesliterally the 2nd most picked midlaner in the game and you're gonna say she's "barely viable" because she has a god damn 49% winrate?
This is a joke, you've got to be joking right? That logic is borderline delusional
BaldBritney11 votesliterally the 2nd most picked midlaner in the game and you're gonna say she's "barely viable" because she has a god damn 49% winrate?
This is a joke, you've got to be joking right? That logic is borderline delusional
i think he was mocking those, that believed fizz was in a bad spot due to his winrate
Ayzev2 votesHe actually seemed to be in a bad spot though. Maybe they should've waited it out until people adjusted to the reverted W and only then buffed him if needed, and they certainly overshot the buffs by miles. But his state pre-buffs was hardly comparable to Zoe.
CppL39 votesHes trolling dude.
Saianna4 votesif he went as far as to look for and paste her winrates, I'd say he isn't trolling, he's just as dumb as it can get and obviously doesn't know how to use statistics for fuckall..
If anything he might have failed with sarcasm, but damn me... I'm not sure...
ImGodlyatYasuo2 votesliterally the 2nd most picked midlaner in the game and you're gonna say she's "barely viable" because she has a god damn 49% winrate?
This is a joke, you've got to be joking right? That logic is borderline delusional
Jesus dude ahri is doing so much better than zoe atm stop circle jerking and think bigger...
Slythion3 votesthen nerf ahri too? lmfao
There's more than enough room for 2 strong midlaners in a game of 140ish champions. I'm glad you saw an excuse to throw out the "circlejerk" buzzword though, good job
ImGodlyatYasuo1 votesthen nerf ahri too? lmfao
There's more than enough room for 2 strong midlaners in a game of 140ish champions. I'm glad you saw an excuse to throw out the "circlejerk" buzzword though, good job
not a circle jerk if you got people fingering ass.... Its two sided ahri mains saying ahri isnt good yet and peopl who think shes strong enough
Slythion1 votesI don't play Ahri or Zoe so which one did you assume I was...?
Apparently expressing a single opinion means I perfectly align with every single aspect of a group of people in your mind, what an awful attitude to have.
ImGodlyatYasuo1 votesI don't play Ahri or Zoe so which one did you assume I was...?
Apparently expressing a single opinion means I perfectly align with every single aspect of a group of people in your mind, what an awful attitude to have.
Expressing a opinion thats circle jerked all day and night by ahri mains is pretty suspect not gonna lie....
Slythion1 votesI literally said to nerf Ahri too, and you can check my match history I don't play Ahri. Stop trying justifying your stupid assumptions and just admit you made a mistake lmfao
ImGodlyatYasuo1 votesExpressing a opinion thats circle jerked all day and night by ahri mains is pretty suspect not gonna lie..... Saying Nerf ahri and saying a champion with a higher winrate playrate and overall better kit is more balanced than one harder to learn worse kit and less winrate + pr are kinda 2 different things///// TL:DR expressing an opinion circle jerked all day and night by ahri mains is pretty suspect not gonna lie....
LatoyaFromTheBX5 votes
49% win rate: http://na.op.gg/champion/zoe/statistics/mid
People defending zoe : DoDgE HEr SKiLl SHots!!!111
shes stupidly overpowered even after all her nerfs a good zoe can hard carry a game alone
Flashes3 votes[{quoted}](name=Süddenly Résets,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AI0mQAec,comment-id=00000003,timestamp=2018-08-05T06:44:22.494+0000)
People defending zoe : DoDgE HEr SKiLl SHots!!!111
shes stupidly overpowered even after all her nerfs a good zoe can hard carry a game alone
so can many good champions.
There are many problems with Zoe that also apply to other champions.
Like this sharp edgy boi: 
larejaredhellTP2 votesIf riot cared to help low winrate champs ryze wouldn't be 30% winrate 2 seasons straight. ornn also is really on the edge but hey 49% winrate too low too weak!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WAHHHHHHH lmao 
RyzeTheSmurfMage2 votesTbh Ryze is fine now. He could be better but he is not trash. I'm a Ryze main btw
HeimerLmao2 votesRyzeTheSmurfMage: I'm a Ryze main btw Me: Thank you, Captain Obvious!
PooWho6 votesI don't see the problem. I love being hit by a stun from 10 miles away that gives enough time for her to use a free ignite, big ass damage q, damage with her w, and empowered auto. Glad they're keeping the game fresh :D
Crescent Dusk5 votesJust nerf her Q cooldown so she has to decide between waveclears or trades, and if she misses a Q you can all in her and force her to blow sleepy bubble but not have the Q to combo it with so she's vulnerable to another all in after.
Smashed Hash5 votesBuff her, just buff the shit out of her. I an talking god like 100% win rate.
TheDevice5 votesNerf a champ with 48% winrate..... brilliant.
Maybe you're just not good against her. Maybe its you, not the champion.
nelogis3 votesyeah I'm pretty sure the pro and challenger players also have to just get good I guess totally right.
TheDevice1 voteswhich pro challenger players? Lets hear some specifics.
She has a 48% winrate and a 4% banrate. Orianna and Lux have a 49% winrate and a 4% banrate. So we should be nerfing them too yeah?
nelogis1 votesHere is one
Nope we shouldn't, they aren't trash design. Zoe is a Ryze with 49% WR, so she needs nerfs.
Ask any, and I mean ANY, high elo streamer what they thing about Zoe and I will guarantee you they will say she needs nerfs or that she is too strong or too annoying or lack counterplay or should just literally be removed from the game
Scarra / QT have told numerous times Zoe is "unbalanced" to say the least. There are countless clips and videos showing off how she literally misses everything but still kills people
This is one of the worst champions league has ever seen, I'm not talking about JUST current champs no, she is up there with pre rework Nidalee, pre rework Talon/LB/Kassadin, Win Nhao, perma stealth Eve with stun, Release TF, Release Thresh, Release Vlad.
She is the literal definition of what league should not be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_QEUtWv-tM
LOOK AT THIS SHIT! SAY HELLO TO OLD NIDALEE!
See a little similarity with Zoe m8? Just a LITTLE SIMILARITY?
At the least Nidalee had no good waveclear at that time. Also look at the non-existant damage compared to today holy fucking shit, that Graves ult didn't even scratch Ezreal, that Shyvana would have died 5 times by todays league with that engage, that lee ult would have killed both of the guys he hit.
https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-410-notes
With her oppressively high spear damage and catlike (maybe just cat-ish) elusiveness, Nidalee's been a contentious low-risk, low-interaction champion for quite some time. Specifically, old Nidalee's gameplay often revolved around the question of "when should I stop throwing spears?" to which the answer was typically "never."
To that end, our goals with this Nidalee gameplay update are to tone down some of her many frustration points while also giving her more options other than chucking projectiles. We also saw this as a great opportunity to cement Nidalee as a real shapeshifting huntress, which meant stronger ties from her human form to her cougar form. Additionally, by connecting Nidalee's offense with cougar form, she now has to balance her high escape potential against her ability to hunt down squishy targets ("Leap away or leap at their face?"). There's certainly more counterplay (and teamplay for those playing around Nidalee engages) when a cougar goes flying into the backline versus a single nuclear-tipped spear
How much risk does Zoe have when throwing Q's? Absolutely fucking none since you TP back no matter what when you use ult. When should she stop using Q? Absolutely never
SAME problem SAME design SAME frustrating playstyle. Other than the fact that Nid Q was single target (so you were kind of safe behind minions) and not AOE and she didn't have a 1500 range stun to secure the hit and she didn't actually one shot people, she just chunked them.
Old Nidalee is a better designed champion than todays Zoe Tell me a single argument why Zoe has the right to exist but old Nidalee doesn't.
ModAcademy Kayn5 votesBruh learn to spell. And type. And maybe some grammar.
Pinko Commie Guy2 votesFunny; as a returning player hearing all of the Zoe hate, I guess I was expecting more. Her ult is a bit ridiculous, but her skillshot game seems okay? You can outplay the sleep by just dashing behind some minions to shield you from the nuke.
The nuke probably shouldn't be AoE, though; it makes her wave clear too good.
I don't see a substantive difference between Zoe & Lux; if Lux lands a bind on you, you're just as dead (albeit it'll be because of an ult rotation, but dead is dead).
Sire Hippington6 votesYou can outplay the sleep by just dashing behind some minions to shield you from the nuke.
Now play a champ without dash and tell me how it goes... Also, the worst part of her is her W...
chipndip14 votes...walk behind some minions?
Sire Hippington2 votesit slows so unless you're already half way behind your minions you won't get far, and a good zoe can angle her Q around minions - if she didn't already clear them that is. The counterplay sounds easy in theory, but it's not nearly as easy in game, else she wouldn't be a staple for proplay...
chipndip13 votesCompared to some other hard cc, where you literally just stop moving.
You realize you have PLENTY of options to deal with Zoe's E, right? If you don't want to use them, that's on you. Also, Zoe's pro play =/= Zoe's solo queue.
Sire Hippington2 votesCompared to some other hard cc, where you literally just stop moving.
This is offset by the much higher total CC duration, drowsy+sleep is 4.2 sec, which gives her(or her allies) plenty time to prepare the follow up. It also allows her to tray and poke with Q+R and throw out a point plank E while she's at it, and then follow up on that with another Q+R befor the CC wears off once she has max cdr.
As for soloQ, it's the same as yasuo, she has an disgusting kit to deal with, but it's also easy to screw up(she's incredible squishy, lacks defensive mobillity on demand and her passive+W provoce stepping to close) which paired with their really high pickrate leads to lot's of people that don't really know what they are doing and screw up. That doesn't change the fact that she's incredible annoying to deal with in any case, nor that she's pretty damn broken in the hands of someone who actually knows what he's doing.
chipndip13 votes[{quoted}](name=Sire Hippington,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AI0mQAec,comment-id=000800000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-05T18:42:22.353+0000)
This is offset by the much higher total CC duration, drowsy+sleep is 4.2 sec, which gives her(or her allies) plenty time to prepare the follow up.
As you can add up total cc between soft and hard cc, you have to remember that Zoe's lasts for a hit, so you have to shave potential time off the top, and others can hit more than Zoe can. It's a fair give and take. Also, who's gonna cry about "loads of utility" coming from a slow? Is Nunu a utility god now?
It also allows her to tray and poke with Q+R and throw out a point plank E while she's at it, and then follow up on that with another Q+R befor the CC wears off once she has max cdr.
Every mage has a hit confirm. It's hard to be a mage without one. Non-issue.
As for soloQ, it's the same as yasuo, she has an disgusting kit to deal with, but it's also easy to screw up(she's incredible squishy, lacks defensive mobillity on demand and her passive+W provoce stepping to close) which paired with their really high pickrate leads to lot's of people that don't really know what they are doing and screw up.
This is how high skill cap champions tend to go. Is that a problem?
That doesn't change the fact that she's incredible annoying to deal with in any case, nor that she's pretty damn broken in the hands of someone who actually knows what he's doing.
So high skill cap champion designs are a problem?
Sire Hippington2 votesSo high skill cap champion designs are a problem?
If their kit works in a way that leaves next to no options to their oponents if used near perfectly? Yes, they for sure are!
As you can add up total cc between soft and hard cc, you have to remember that Zoe's lasts for a hit, so you have to shave potential time off the top, and others can hit more than Zoe can. It's a fair give and take. Also, who's gonna cry about "loads of utility" coming from a slow? Is Nunu a utility god now?
In a teamfight as disruptive CC, her sleep has not much value. But as a pick.creating tool, it doesn't matter at all that it gets cleansed on hit, all you need is a lockdown to land that first followup, which will either be another CC or heavy burst. And her E's full lockdown is only met by morganas Q, just that she can provided all the fllowup needed vs a squishy all by her self from a screen away.
Every mage has a hit confirm. It's hard to be a mage without one. Non-issue.
The point isn't that it's a hit confirm, it's that she basically has a hit confirm for her hit confirm. She can use R To get a point blank bubble, and have R up again befor the CC wears off for the followup combo, heavily reduceing the potential counterplay. Other mages need to land a longranged snipe as setup, they can't just get ~600units closer for the target to line up their skillshot and then automatically return to a save distance AND have the 600 range proxy up befor the CC of their setup wears off.
chipndip13 votes[{quoted}](name=Sire Hippington,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AI0mQAec,comment-id=00080000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-05T21:19:07.928+0000)
If their kit works in a way that leaves next to no options to their oponents if used near perfectly? Yes, they for sure are!
You have 4 different in-game items and one summoner spell that's effective against Zoe's main tool for kill confirms. That's all the super surface level stuff, to boot, without talking about other things that you can easily do to deal with the champion.
There's plenty of champs that fit this description. Surprisingly, none of them are Zoe.
In a teamfight as disruptive CC, her sleep has not much value. But as a pick.creating tool, it doesn't matter at all that it gets cleansed on hit, all you need is a lockdown to land that first followup, which will either be another CC or heavy burst.
...if you cleanse the cc, how is ANYONE going to catch the person you're trying to pick? Like...hello?
And her E's full lockdown is only met by morganas Q, just that she can provided all the fllowup needed vs a squishy all by her self from a screen away.
And Morgana can lock down up to five people by herself. Different champs do different things, wow. What's your point?
The point isn't that it's a hit confirm, it's that she basically has a hit confirm for her hit confirm.
Do you know what a hit-confirm is? Like, honest question.
She can use R To get a point blank bubble, and have R up again befor the CC wears off for the followup combo, heavily reduceing the potential counterplay.
...I don't know if you're serious anymore.
BEK Makadur2 votesComparing zoe to lux... Zoe got way more utility, bursts way harder than lux and her bubble can hit further targets, doesn't just bind but pit you asleep and even if she misses the shit can block your way.
Ranmaru3 votesComparing zoe to lux... Zoe got way more utility, bursts way harder than lux and her bubble can hit further targets, doesn't just bind but pit you asleep and even if she misses the shit can block your way.
Lux is full of utility a root a shield and a slow compared to a cc that normally lasts 1 second
BEK Makadur2 votesZoe w... Also sleep is way stronger than root.
chipndip15 votesComparing zoe to lux... Zoe got way more utility,
This is actually fake news.
BEK Makadur2 votesZher w alone got more.
