Jax needs CD nerfs.

ToxicPlayerNA·Jul 13, 2019·31 votes·12,681 views

I believe that Jax needs some CD nerfs, especially on his Q. Something like 2-3 seconds increase.

41 Comments

Polaris IJul 13, 201914 votes

SoS also needs to be removed because it removes cds and makes Jax almost invincible

Unusual midlanerJul 13, 201914 votes

Thanks to spear of shojin completely breaking him he might need it since every Jax gets it now. As someone who plays Jax sometimes I stopped playing him often because it felt dumb to buy spear and suddenly 1v5.

DeusVultJul 14, 20194 votes

SoS is a busted item, but IMO jax is above average in strength even without it.

since typically he gets SoS late, after item 3078 and item 3053 along with completed boots and possibly a tiamat, so he is strong for most of the game without that item

Anu3isIIJul 14, 20192 votes

Based on League of Graphs, Jax in Plat+ and any particular higher Elo rushes SoS second after Trinity (and possible early Tiamat or Jungle item). Considering he most of the times picks Inspiration as secondary (with Magical Footwear), he may even ignore upgrading his boots.

I agree with you that Jax is a bit OP, but SoS is also part of the reason. It is consistently built as a 2nd or 3rd item and he builds it in at least 40% of his games, with lower Pick Rate only to Trinity, which is his main item.

Stray KatJul 13, 201910 votes

Spear of Shojin is what has him out of line suddenly. He was trying to step out of line before it's release and had gotten poked back into place - Then they dropped Spear, and his Cooldowns disappeared due to him having access to an auto reset in his kit, often building a second auto reset, and having the stacking attack speed+Spear. If he has it and pops his R, he basically has no significant cooldown on any of his kit due to being able to launch those first several autoattacks extremely quickly, stacking his passive and resetting his cooldowns.

Honestly, spear has been an interesting attempt at an item, and DEFINITELY serves the purpose it's meant to - But it just feels so horrible to play against from the viewpoint of anyone who doesn't use it. Champs who have been balanced in certain ways for years suddenly have access to their abilities far more often with it, and it honestly just doesn't feel good to face a champ who suddenly goes URF on you.

On that note, I'ma go try SoS Diana in a norm.

NekorusJul 13, 20191 votes

yes

Xela SyabJul 14, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Spear of Shojin is what has him out of line suddenly. He was trying to step out of line before it's release and had gotten poked back into place - Then they dropped Spear, and his Cooldowns disappeared due to him having access to an auto reset in his kit, often building a second auto reset, and having the stacking attack speed+Spear. If he has it and pops his R, he basically has no significant cooldown on any of his kit due to being able to launch those first several autoattacks extremely quickly, stacking his passive and resetting his cooldowns.

Honestly, spear has been an interesting attempt at an item, and DEFINITELY serves the purpose it's meant to - But it just feels so horrible to play against from the viewpoint of anyone who doesn't use it. Champs who have been balanced in certain ways for years suddenly have access to their abilities far more often with it, and it honestly just doesn't feel good to face a champ who suddenly goes URF on you.

On that note, I'ma go try SoS Diana in a norm.

jax might just need some tuning on his cd he was abusing item 3508 the same way

Princess BunheadJul 14, 20191 votes

No, instead remove SoS passive. Then take it from there - it's absolutely cancerous.

LordGeovanniJul 13, 20199 votes

As a jax main i agree on the Caviat that he gets better base defese. Magic resist armor and hp per level.....

FCJAAAAGOOOOJul 14, 20191 votes

{quoted}

As a jax main i agree on the Caviat that he gets better base defese. Magic resist armor and hp per level.....

The champ must always be the champ

LordGeovanniJul 17, 20191 votes

There are better The champs than jax. Every adc except corki 80% of mages every assassin but pyke. Gnar Darius Garen Nasus MasterYi (the match up is in jax's favor but yi still better ingeneral) Mordekaiser Singed Sion Udyr Urgot Warwick

SasogwaJul 13, 20199 votes

Jax doesn't need nerfs, but Spear of Shojin needs REMOVAL.

SiG DxDJul 13, 20197 votes

item 3161 is just dumb item

Meteora707Jul 14, 20194 votes

jax feels ... weak, his early game isn't good enough to beat people that you're better off and his late game is just 100% faceroll, nerf late and make his early decent again.

it be lìke thatJul 14, 20193 votes

weak early? into who? his level 3 is dummy strong.

Meteora707Jul 14, 20194 votes

I mean he can punish bad play in levels 1-3 in a lot of matchups but after that his kinda just eh

Soul DealerJul 13, 20193 votes

While I agree with this the problem is they already nerfed the damage on his q and ult. If they revert those nerfs ( which shouldn’t have happened to begin with) then nerfing the cd of his q at early ranks would be fine.

XavanicJul 13, 20193 votes

Personally i rather see nerfs to counterstrike....this is where i feel a lot of his problems lie...tbh i actually would like to see the stun get nerfed or even completely removed while additionally seeing a longer cooldown get added to it...as right now it scales down to 8 seconds....add 40% CDR and that's now roughly 4.5 seconds....so he has auto attack immunity on a 4.5 second CD (with added AoE dmg reduction) like...at the very least...prevent him from auto attacking during counter strike or something....for such a simple champ, this is an extremely overloaded ability

Soul DealerJul 13, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Personally i rather see nerfs to counterstrike....this is where i feel a lot of his problems lie...tbh i actually would like to see the stun get nerfed or even completely removed while additionally seeing a longer cooldown get added to it...as right now it scales down to 8 seconds....add 40% CDR and that's now roughly 4.5 seconds....so he has auto attack immunity on a 4.5 second CD (with added AoE dmg reduction) like...at the very least...prevent him from auto attacking during counter strike or something....for such a simple champ, this is an extremely overloaded ability

It’s his only complex ability though. This is his best ability for outplay potential and skill expression so I would not touch it.

XavanicJul 13, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Soul Dealer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AFBeNAvI,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-07-13T17:51:20.753+0000)

It’s his only complex ability though. This is his best ability for outplay potential and skill expression so I would not touch it.

What skill expression? you literally just activate it on CD whenever you fight...its more of a fuck you button then an outplay tool...this ability needs to have some power pulled as in it's current state as it's far too strong...then that power can be placed elsewhere in jax's kit...perhaps on his boring asf W that literally just gives him an extra AA

Soul DealerJul 13, 20191 votes

{quoted}

What skill expression? you literally just activate it on CD whenever you fight...its more of a fuck you button then an outplay tool...this ability needs to have some power pulled as in it's current state as it's far too strong...then that power can be placed elsewhere in jax's kit...perhaps on his boring asf W that literally just gives him an extra AA

What kind of power do you want pulled? You have to able to aa during it or his passive becomes terrible. You can’t remove the stun or he has no cc. The skill expression comes from knowing if you should activate it early or not.

XavanicJul 13, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Soul Dealer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AFBeNAvI,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-13T18:10:33.856+0000)

What kind of power do you want pulled? You have to able to aa during it or his passive becomes terrible. You can’t remove the stun or he has no cc. The skill expression comes from knowing if you should activate it early or not.

it really doesn't matter when you activate it though...and there is tons of ways to pull power...but tbh...why does he need CC...it seems rather overloaded to give a diver/assassin hybrid CC to begin with and tbh....the main thing i want done to it, is a much longer CD...like im saying 16 seconds at all ranks think about it this way...you engage on jax....he has 40% CDR (don't say he doesn't...he loves SoS and Tri force) So he pops counterstrike...fine....he dodges my first 2.5 seconds of AA's...i cant back off because he will jump to me and stun, but fighting him right now is pointless....now he reactivates and stuns me....i now have a 3.5 second window to fight him before it's up again...but he's not gonna fight, he's gonna stick outside of my reach and wait till it's up since he only has to wait 3 seconds to re-engage and in that time, unless i flash i'm not going to get out of range of his Q...he jumps on me....now i have to make a choice...keep running and feed him (since he will always keep up because of tri force) or try to fight him, which will result in him popping E again and restart the cycle...this is the problem with having such a powerful ability on such a short CD...imagine if fiora parry was on a 4.5 second CD....imagine if garen's W was on a 4.5 second CD...hell imagine if tryndameres ultimate was on a 4.5 second CD....do you see the problem i have with counterstrike yet?

Soul DealerJul 13, 20194 votes

{quoted}

it really doesn't matter when you activate it though...and there is tons of ways to pull power...but tbh...why does he need CC...it seems rather overloaded to give a diver/assassin hybrid CC to begin with and tbh....the main thing i want done to it, is a much longer CD...like im saying 16 seconds at all ranks think about it this way...you engage on jax....he has 40% CDR (don't say he doesn't...he loves SoS and Tri force) So he pops counterstrike...fine....he dodges my first 2.5 seconds of AA's...i cant back off because he will jump to me and stun, but fighting him right now is pointless....now he reactivates and stuns me....i now have a 3.5 second window to fight him before it's up again...but he's not gonna fight, he's gonna stick outside of my reach and wait till it's up since he only has to wait 3 seconds to re-engage and in that time, unless i flash i'm not going to get out of range of his Q...he jumps on me....now i have to make a choice...keep running and feed him (since he will always keep up because of tri force) or try to fight him, which will result in him popping E again and restart the cycle...this is the problem with having such a powerful ability on such a short CD...imagine if fiora parry was on a 4.5 second CD....imagine if garen's W was on a 4.5 second CD...hell imagine if tryndameres ultimate was on a 4.5 second CD....do you see the problem i have with counterstrike yet?

No I don’t see the issue because Jax is supposed to be a hyper late game carry. Counter strike has a very long cd early game and it’s the last skill you max so you are not getting to that stupidly low cd until level 18. You clearly don’t play Jax much if this is how you think Jax players play.

XavanicJul 13, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Soul Dealer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AFBeNAvI,comment-id=000400000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-13T18:30:24.394+0000)

No I don’t see the issue because Jax is supposed to be a hyper late game carry. Counter strike has a very long cd early game and it’s the last skill you max so you are not getting to that stupidly low cd until level 18. You clearly don’t play Jax much if this is how you think Jax players play.

well then i think tryndamere ultimate should be on a 10 sec CD....he's supposed to be a late game hyper carry...and master yi...he needs to be allowed to AA while meditating, since he's a late game hyper carry....nasus ult should last indefinitely after level 16 because he's a late game hyper carry....but none of them do...why does jax E get such special treatment...he has the shortest CD defensive skill in the game...on top of having another defensive skill...this is a problem and surely should be addressed...like even warwicks E which is a watered down version of jax's has a longer CD

Soul DealerJul 13, 20191 votes

{quoted}

well then i think tryndamere ultimate should be on a 10 sec CD....he's supposed to be a late game hyper carry...and master yi...he needs to be allowed to AA while meditating, since he's a late game hyper carry....nasus ult should last indefinitely after level 16 because he's a late game hyper carry....but none of them do...why does jax E get such special treatment...he has the shortest CD defensive skill in the game...on top of having another defensive skill...this is a problem and surely should be addressed...like even warwicks E which is a watered down version of jax's has a longer CD

You really don’t get it do you? The cd on jax’s E is not a problem otherwise more people would be asking for a nerf to it. You are flat out the only person I have ever seen that has wanted a nerf to the cd of his e. This entire post was about a nerf to his q ffs. Jax e is fine and no one complains about it so why do you?

SasogwaJul 13, 20192 votes

{quoted}

well then i think tryndamere ultimate should be on a 10 sec CD....he's supposed to be a late game hyper carry...and master yi...he needs to be allowed to AA while meditating, since he's a late game hyper carry....nasus ult should last indefinitely after level 16 because he's a late game hyper carry....but none of them do...why does jax E get such special treatment...he has the shortest CD defensive skill in the game...on top of having another defensive skill...this is a problem and surely should be addressed...like even warwicks E which is a watered down version of jax's has a longer CD

Tryndamere's ult is an invulnerability that works against everything in the game, not just autoattacks. Jax's e is a dodge, and a slight AOE reduction (25%). Master Yi being able to AA while meditating is completely random, would probably not even be remotely strong because you couldn't move, and it would be easy to interrupt, but mostly it's just random af, not sure why it's popping in the discussion. Nasus ult is one of the longest in the game, during 15 whopping seconds. Him having a perma ult.. honestly wouldn't change much. It would look extremely dumb and would be a stupid balancing decision, but it wouldn't really do anything to his winrate. When Nasus commits to a big fight, he just pretty much always has ult anyway. Jax's E cd is actually not that small. It's one of the longest CD's in the game early on, and lategame it's going down to a fair value, and is a decent part of what makes him a good lategame champion. But the real problem is if you reduce it drastically with an item that is the most broken shit in the game and should never have existed.. Yes, I'm talking about Spear of Shojin. Jax isn't a problem without it. It's actually crazy if you do custom games, how completely bullshit the item is in terms of 1v1 potential and how it turns matchups, and not only that, it's also a great teamfight item. Funfact, if Shojin was removed, Jax might even be on the weak side and warranting some buffs (I ain't sure, but that's to say how ridiculously reliant of the item he is. It just breaks him).

FSRERJul 14, 20193 votes

I.. I don't get why people are still asking for Jax nerfs even tho we all know that the only thing that makes him overpowered is Spear of Shojin. There are many champions in toplane that counter him, heck, even Irelia can easily beat Jax now. Jax right now is only good vs non meta champions like Olaf or Garen while every other single champion at toplane can easily beat him. I feel that Jax can only kill you if you play recklessly. And I am talking about him without Shojin because with shojin, he is not longer a champion, just a abomination.

YäätoJul 14, 20193 votes

Think this game could do with major cd increases overall.

NekorusJul 13, 20192 votes

the only problem with jax is counterstrike because SOS removes the cd since titanic and w are aa resets and u can just spam the hell out of it. Increase counterstrike cd then remove SOS and buff the defenses he gets on his r.

HateDaddyJul 14, 20196 votes

{quoted}

the only problem with jax is counterstrike because SOS removes the cd since titanic and w are aa resets and u can just spam the hell out of it. Increase counterstrike cd then remove SOS and buff the defenses he gets on his r.

So remove the item that is making counterstrike broken, then nerf counterstrike anyway? Lol

LordGeovanniJul 17, 20191 votes

Literally no one builds for defenses on Jax's R because its so short you just get cc'ed while its up and kited and there are no hp attack speed items except trinity force which has shit amount of hp. Been pushing for hp attack speed for years melee optimal item like something with a small aoe blast on it to discourage adcs building it

LaçezJul 13, 20192 votes

True, he's literally a grasshopper with a lamp that one shots you.

SilentBomberJul 13, 20192 votes

If Riot increases Jax's CD on Q or E they'll have to compesate him somewhere else since his laning phase will be weaker against ranged champs.As a 1 mil mastery Jax i propose a nerf on his Q's RANGE AND NOT CD.

We all know that Q's range is the same as Flash's range.

ChasmOfTrossmJul 14, 20191 votes

I agree. The distance he jumps can feel pretty obnoxious at times, and the frustration is amplified by the fact that it can target enemies and allies alike, giving him FAR more maneuverability than most people realize.

Even Lee Sin with his constant ward hopping and ally hopping has less directions he can go in.

SilentBomberJul 15, 20191 votes

That said Riot should compensate him elsewhere.Jax received his nerfs twice.His Q jump is the only way of getting ranged champions and hit them.They should either give hin back some damage on his Q that was nerfed.

PaffWasTakenJul 14, 20192 votes

The amount of CDR availlable through items should be straight halved across the board without any exception.

Heko The ManJul 14, 20192 votes

Riven Q cd ? Zed ult cd late game? either nerf or buff zhonyas cd cause there's no counterplay Lux ult cd Cassiopeia literally OP champ but nobody talks about it because nobody plays her

it be lìke thatJul 16, 20191 votes

okay zed tho? yeah he can ult a lot late game but wtf is he going to do when its down? i just went like 25-8 or something but all they did was group up and stack the naut on carries and i was pretty much going to get killed for going in if 1 of the 3 of em could land a cc before i dip out.

Luigi TortelliniJul 15, 20192 votes

Ok but Yasuo and Riven first, and with no compensation