The problem with Vayne isn't her tank shreding power, but rather her dueling power

MićaĆomlaDJ·Aug 13, 2015·8 votes·952 views

There have been a lot of post hitting the frontpage about how there isn't any good way to itemize against vayne, but if you consider that vayne only a tank shreder then this would be ok, while the big problem is her dueling power. Think about it she is the only hyper-carry that can hold her own against assassins. Why are there so many vayne montages with vayne players? We have all seen vayne getting crazy 1v5 pentas or 1v1ing an assassin, I've 1v1-ed zed with vayne without a problem and I'm not a even a vayne player.

Let's compare vayne with a nother tank buster Kog. If kog is left alone with an assassin he will get one shoted, but when vayne is left with an assassin she can ult, Q and repostion and E you to a wall, and boom now you are dead,

Now let's comapare the pros with the cons of vayne: Pros:

Tank shreding hyper-carry
Extremly mobile
Dueling power
Self peel and utility with E Now the cons:
Weak laning phase, but she is a champion that is perfectly with going even with the opponent, plus laning in bot is mostly decide with the support match up
No wave clear.

Now the counter play to vayne is point and click CC plus a pink ward/ oracle. Buying armor against her gets counterd heavily, because of her W.

If riot ever considers nerfing vayne, which I think they should, they should look at nerfing her dueling power, by either removing the stealth from her( I really don't see a reason why you would need a pink ward to be able to 1v1 a Vayne, plus it already gives her a lot of AD and MS), or incereasing the cooldown of her Q so she doesn't get to dodge that many skillshots, but maybe also adding a mechanic if she procs her W the CD of her Q gets lower, or the final option is reworking her E.

13 Comments

A bad MalzaharAug 13, 20154 votes

Champions who have only single target damage should be very strong duelists....look at Warwick or Trundle....there are very few champs who can outduel them. Jax and Tryndamere have a small amount of AoE damage but 95 percent of their damage is single target so they are very strong duelists too.

KONO RUBICK DAAug 13, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=A bad Malzahar,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A92HYMdq,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-08-13T13:23:19.362+0000)

Champions who have only single target damage should be very strong duelists....look at Warwick or Trundle....there are very few champs who can outduel them. Jax and Tryndamere have a small amount of AoE damage but 95 percent of their damage is single target so they are very strong duelists too.

you're right, but jinx is a bad duelist and has tons of single target dmg, same for kog

vayne is a duelist because she is mobile has stealth in fight (unlike twitch) and a hard cc+selfpeel

A bad MalzaharAug 13, 20151 votes

Jinx is a great duelist lol.

Zone of EndlessAug 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

you're right, but jinx is a bad duelist and has tons of single target dmg, same for kog

vayne is a duelist because she is mobile has stealth in fight (unlike twitch) and a hard cc+selfpeel

jinx can be a great duelist in 1v1 with her E and minigun giving her massive attack speed given the circumstances.

But jinx has an AoE crit for 700 range on top of her E for safety so she can't be too good in 1v1

KONO RUBICK DAAug 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

jinx can be a great duelist in 1v1 with her E and minigun giving her massive attack speed given the circumstances.

But jinx has an AoE crit for 700 range on top of her E for safety so she can't be too good in 1v1

jinx get ultied by zed, zed press R-E-A-AA ->jinx dead

jinx get jumped and stun by jax, jax proced to kill her in 2 sec

Zone of EndlessAug 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

jinx get ultied by zed, zed press R-E-A-AA ->jinx dead

jinx get jumped and stun by jax, jax proced to kill her in 2 sec

Which is why I said given certain circumstances.

In a 1v1 scenario where they just hit each other in the face Jinx will still do a lot of damage because of her massive attack speed steroid

MićaĆomlaDJAug 13, 20151 votes

If you consider her only a duelist then this can be ok, but people continue to mention one pro for vayne, meanwhile they forget about the others. She is too good at dueling to be a tank-buster vs which is too hard to itemize properly. Plus all the champs you mentioned are all melee and the fact that they are great dualist is countered by the fact that their teamfight is just so bad unless they are ahead, so they resort to split-pushing and duealing, meanwhile vaynes teamfights is good, not the best, but she gets by because of her mobility+ invis, that she can suriveve long enough and deal dmg

A bad MalzaharAug 13, 20151 votes

Tbh Warwick is a very good teamfighter and Trundle can be decent too and both of those also happen to be tankbusters :)

Don't worry, I get your point, I also think Vayne is too strong at the moment but in my opinion it is more because she is so safe and can hardly be punished in lane.

Slamurai JackAug 13, 20152 votes

The problem with Vayne is and always has been item 3153 . On it's own merits, her kit is reasonable but add a botrk to the mix and it pushes her power and annoyingness into another realm of BS.

Knight SoIaire Aug 13, 20151 votes

the problem with vayne is that her role got out of sync with her numbers

she was meant to be a hypercarry ... that puts a time limit on your matches she has a kit of a hypercarry ... that is gated by items but allows her to deal with any opponent but needs loads of items to function

unfortunately with the changes ... her early game stopped being as weak as it should be (blame botrk) while her late game isnt as strong as it should be (i dont know what to blame here)

there are 2 fixes ... adjust the numbers again ... change her role

LoLKiruAug 13, 20151 votes

Honestly the biggest problem I have with hitting BoRK, is that you'd be nerfing everyone it ISN'T a problem on as well as Vayne (Kog'Maw is probably the best example among ADCs, BoRK is core on him to enhance his ability to kill literally anyone)

You could of course always buff the people who used it often though.

So do we hit Vayne specifically, or hit BoRK?

Slamurai JackAug 13, 20151 votes

Botrk is blatantly overtuned without even accounting for Vayne. It's easily as good if not better than BT, but it costs 300 less and has a far better build path. Increase botrk's cost and then we can talk about if its stats are too good.

Power CosmicAug 13, 20151 votes

Vayne's only hope really is to get fed and have someone run/walk to her so she can ult and Q. If she is jumped on by someone that is not under-fed she is most of the time dead.