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Why does balancing take so long?

KageBunshin91··8 votes·5,819 views

I would like to lead with a disclaimer: THIS IS NOT IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM AN ATTACK ON RIOT I actually thought someone would have asked this in a reddit forum or something and haven't found any leads other than some article about why it's important to balance games... duh

I work in software development. I understand that it is not the same thing as video game development by any means, but I would think there should be quite a bit of similarities. Foremost, math. While some balancing makes sense that it isn't something that can be updated weekly (If you change the range on something you have to take into account the graphics need to be updated, their interactions need to be checked insert 400 other things here etc etc). However for just general balancing, I don't understand why it often takes so long. Maybe this is just my curiosity getting the better of me. While I welcome all responses / opinions / thoughts / theories, I'd highly appreciate anyone with actual video game experience that can elaborate. I also understand why a Rioter probably can't respond, but if they could without disclosing code or anything like that it'd be fantastic.

I'm sure there are more than 10 million layers to league (its why this game is awesome), however there comes a point where you actually get to just numbers for common balances. Some of the lower layers I would think would be champion damage. Q1 Q2 Q3 Q4 Q5 represents the levels of your Q for example. I would think it would be written in a way that you can more or less copy and paste into every champion. While you may need to rename things, the formula shouldn't need to change.

Q1 damage calculation = (Base Damage) + (AD Scaling * AD) + (AP Scaling * AP) + (Health Scaling * Health) + (Mana Scaling * Mana) + (Armor Scaling * Armor) + (MR Scaling * MR). (This of course is probably an over simplified version of how their formulas actually look but for demonstration purposes) Anything that doesn't scale with a given stat will automatically zero out. While I wouldn't think a couple integers on each skill would cause much additional stress on anyone's computer playing the game, I guess there's really no harm in pulling the zero factors out. This also gives the ability to "scale the scale" that is Maybe rank 1 Q scales by 10% of your AD and at rank 5 its 50%. Now imagine this same thing for W E and R. Same thing with stats. Base Health X + (Scaling amount * level) Mana armor ad attack speed.......

Theoretically you could put anything in here. Spell vamp / life steal / slow / stun etc that is reflective of itself. (That is, you don't account for spell vamp here unless it's part of the skill itself (Vlad Q), I wouldn't think you'd account for here but maybe I'm wrong, maybe my whole logic is... starts overthinking posting)

Then something another section that calculates the actual damage dealt (Insert formula with a lot more interactions Ad damage percent * (some number less than one based on armor) etc etc) special interactions like % health (BOtRK / Vayne passive...)

So, given my thoughts I would think when champions are unbalanced, a small nerf 3% off your Q AP scaling becomes changing literally 1 number in 1 file that is always referenced and never directly re-written anywhere but those ONE files per champion, or champion skill depending on how it actually ends up, or changing base damage is changing 5 numbers. I would think with even a semi-organized file system this is a 2 minute project between finding the file making the change and committing the changes for an intern (don't let your interns decide the scaling, their favorite champs will get OP quick :p) With it only taking a couple minutes to balance each champion, I would think small nerfs / buffs could hit EVERY champion if needed with a weekly balance even if that was an intern's only job.

Again I state that these are for SIMPLE balancing and again is not me calling Riot out

While I'm not trying to say how it should be done, I'm just curious where the flaws in my logic are. Or, if this was developed like so many commercial projects that started one way that worked but now really should be overhauled entirely but that costs too much time / resources and so it goes on as is.

Anyway, thanks for reading my really long question!

39 Comments

RiotMeddler15 votes

Fair question.

The actual process of entering balance changes can be almost that quick for something really basic. Changing a spell's base damage for example probably takes 5-10 minutes (find the right file, change a few numbers, make a note of the change for the patch notes, create a ticket to ensure the changes get tested, submit the changes to the internal server). Some stuff's much harder to adjust than changing a couple of numbers though, so can take quite a bit longer (modifying Bard's Magical Journey so that clones could use it too in the last patch for example).

Generally though, implementing the change isn't the time consuming part. Most of a balance designer's time is spent on analyzing the state of the game and testing changes that have already been implemented. Changing stuff quick's not the bottleneck, it's getting sufficient confidence that we're changing the right things in the right ways (and even with a lot of time put into that we'll be wrong sometimes of course).

One small side note - while we do get interns each year, they're not here to do menial data entry to make things easier for other people. Goal of the internships is basically to offer a couple of months of work experience as a normal Rioter. That means that interns on design teams for example do the same analysis, testing, implementation etc that other designers do (though with a chunk of extra support and mentoring of course, since they've got less experience to draw on usually).

SantanaTheSlick 2 votes

so uh if you know a problem champion is running rampant is this why you take so long to nerf or change him/her. Nid is one of this champions you guys seem to skip over. She has never been fun to play with or against hell i'd even so far as say that gnar is kinda botched nid because you can't transform when you want. Its been 2 patches and not really any changes to the trouble children

IcyPepper6 votes

Because there's more to it than we think, and it takes time.

There are over 100 champions.

There are multiple objectives in the entire game.

Several combos, strategies, team comps, match-ups, counters, and so on.

You change one part of a champion willy-nilly, you affect hundreds of variables in the game. It's not as simple as tweaking a number or two, even if it looks like it.

I know it's hard to hear, and I really hear you, but if we want something to change we have to get off Riot's ass and communicate with them without breathing down their neck. They acknowledged Nidalee might be a problem, but she's... well it's difficult. For some changes people have suggested (like making her tankier and nerfing her damage, forcing her to become a close-combat bruiser and be at risk) it could potentially change everything about Nidalee's identity, ruin jungle balancing again, or make her the new Urgot or the new Ahri when she got that speed boost buff.

Remember Veigar? Kassadin? Sometimes they get it wrong. It's not a process to rush.

Remember Vi? That's an example of them getting it right. Instead of taking away her dueling power or tankiness, they gave a love tap to her MS and the free damage on her ult (that's mostly used for it's initiation and team fights) to make her less overbearing. If they had attacked her W or removed the knockup on her Q, her win rate would have dropped much, much lower than 48%.

So give them a break. It's obvious they're trying, but there's more to it than we think.

Raptamei4 votes

{quoted}

I know it's hard to hear, and I really hear you, but if we want something to change we have to get off Riot's ass and communicate with them without breathing down their neck.

No, we don't. They are trying to sell a product. We just have to vote with our wallets.

Retillin1 votes

{quoted}

I know it's hard to hear, and I really hear you, but if we want something to change we have to get off Riot's ass and communicate with them without breathing down their neck. They acknowledged Nidalee might be a problem, but she's... well it's difficult.

But isn't that the issue. She's difficult to balance (as are all over loaded kits). So should she not be left weak until they can fix/identify the core issues? Much like when Kassadin was just everywhere. It took them a LONG time to lower his power to the point where he is/was balanced. (If he is or not right now is not the issue, but they spent a long time trying to get him there) Now Veigar was instantly nerfed because they didn't know how to safely fix his issues.

I don't have a problem with the hard nerf to Veigar, IF that is how Riot wishes to deal with champions. Weaken them to the point they don't really get played and work on them then. However there are too many cases where Riot picks and plays favourites. That is the main issue I think people have.

And remember, when the community brings some of these issues up the general reply from Riot is "we know what we are doing just trust us". So that leads to a lot of negativity, and that leads to less communication, and this leads to more toxic forums, leads to less Riot interaction, ect....

Garlyle Wilds1 votes

So should she not be left weak until they can fix/identify the core issues?

They've done this before. You're just listing off the top of your head, patch to patch, but the reality is that identifying and fixing core issues can be a thing that takes years, because sometimes you just straight up need way more drastic changes. This did used to be how they handled this... but ask anyone who sat through the three years of Evelynn being constantly the worst champion in the game how that felt. See also Olaf. And probably others I'm not thinking of because I just woke up.

Because it really, really sucks, and they've said that going forward that's not something they really want to do, if they can help it.

Retillin1 votes

Here's the kicker. Some champions (even VERY recently) are love tapped down. While others are Olaf'd. That's my main issue. It'd be best if they didn't Olaf a champion. However, when they do that to champion A while giving love taps at best to champion B it can get frustrating. The inconsistency is what drives me crazy.

IcyPepper1 votes

She's difficult to balance (as are all over loaded kits)

Only thing overloaded about her is her passive.

And going off this, I agree it is. That passive needs a change so she's not forced to be weak.

Pika3108 votes

So if a number change is 5-10 minutes and "Modifying Magical Journey" takes "a bit longer," then hypothetically, how long would it take to revert 29 separate nerfs all on a single champion? Just for example, let's say the 23 nerfs to Sona in 4.13 and 6 additional nerfs after?

IcyPepper4 votes

Just for example, let's say the 23 nerfs to Sona in 4.13 and 6 additional nerfs after?

What, that's the exact number? I thought it was just 16.

At least she had a buff recently. Sort of.

Pika3105 votes

The exact number is tricky, because it included multiple secret shadow-nerfs. The documented amount is 21, we know for a fact they also secretly decreased Hymn's range by 50 and her base AD by 2, but there are suspicions there were more than that. So in actuality, the number might be higher than 23.

As for the recent "buff," ya it was a nice change, but one that was 1 year, 4 months and 2 weeks overdue. That was when they made the exact change to countless other champs and players have been asking for Sona to get the same fair treatment this whole time.

IcyPepper8 votes

I don't know what the big deal with Sona was. Her three hard counters are the three most popular supports, for one. She's not overpowered, but she's annoying with her Q (and who else is annoying but not overpowered right now...?).

I mean, I know they must have a reason, but when they nerfed her movement speed on top of everything else I just wondered if Riot just hated her. Even the patch notes when her ult got buffed made a quip about it being a buff (for once) :/

Pika3107 votes

People talk about her Q being "annoying," they use reasons like "damage," "long-range" or "auto-targeting," but those arguments are inherently flawed.

  • The damage on Q is tied with 3 other spells on 2 champs for the lowest base amongst the entire support class at only 40 per cast. Matter-of-fact, her damage potential as a whole is the 2nd lowest only to Braum.
  • The range on Q is 700, whilst most spells tend to be 900 or more. For some reason, Riot and Wikia still have this listed incorrectly and both are different from each other in addition. Worse, for the on-hit of Q and Power Chord in general, she needs to get in 550 range, average ADC range, making her always vulnerable to retaliation.
  • Being auto-targeting may make them arguably more reliable than skillshots, but less reliable than targeted spells. It's mandatory that the player instinctively knows the exact range on it and there's the chance that even the slightest mis-calculation ends in burning cast-time and mana, much the same as missing a skillshot.

Agreed the movement speed nerf was baffling and absurd. Nami is unanimously considered a superior carbon copy of Sona, yet sits TWO whole movement tiers above Sona. Despite Nami having easy access to 2 forms of CC, 1 being a knock-up and Sona's E on all 4 of her spells. In addition to a heal twice the base of Sona's on the same CD.

IcyPepper4 votes

The only saving grace on Sona's W is the shield. You can actually clutch with it with enough practice. Even denied a Karthus ult by timing the shield (the heal wouldn't be enough) and saving them by 10 hp.

But... yeah.

Pika3104 votes

On the other hand, it's both the weakest and shortest duration shield of the entire support class. As a matter of fact, it reduces far less incoming damage than the old armor/MR aura used to give. The only upside is for true damage and nothing else, it's literally a blatantly inferior spell otherwise.

Almost everything about Sona is "worst of" or "2nd worst of" in regards to either the support class as a whole or even the entire champion base. The few remaining stats that don't fall into these categories still sit in the bottom half of champions.

Having the lowest number of total stat points in the game, including all factors, Sona is mathematically the weakest champion in League. This is reflected in the fact that her pro win-rate fell to 0% immediately after 4.13 and to this day has yet to rise above it. Additionally, the top Sona mains worldwide have all been getting demoted multiple times and the larger majority eventually quit the game altogether.

IcyPepper5 votes

On the other hand, it's both the weakest and shortest duration shield of the entire support class

B-but it's weak because it's a shield AND heal in one... with no aa bonus Lulu Janna

But... I know. Like, I'm just trying to make do with what I can. Denying a Karthus ult with one of the weakest shields and durations through perfect timing and determination to show Sona's strength? That was awesome one time, but it's not a reliable strength like other support abilities.

Honestly... sighs... I think she needs an actual rework. The passive and Q could possibly get tweaks to be have "more counterplay" so the rest of her kit can get a little buffed :/

I cried a little when her MS was nerfed. Whatever reason they gave, I didn't buy it with the range of her Q and the MS of her counters Leona Thresh Blitzcrank being oppressive enough. It just didn't seem fair.

Lee Sin is allowed to be a strong generalist, why can't Sona?

Pika3104 votes

But... I know. Like, I'm just trying to make do with what I can.

Yes, we all have to make do with what we have. In my case, it was switching to a playable champion. Nami

Sona's new "playstyle" of High-risk/No-reward didn't suit my taste. The Low-risk/High-reward of Nami fits my playstyle far better.

IcyPepper5 votes

The truth is... I play Nami sometimes and have a skin already.

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140605232214/adventuretimewithfinnandjake/images/1/1f/Crying.gif

Someday, Sona, someday Riot will love you again.

I never stopped.

GinoSoldier1 votes

This may be because I'm playing on a lower plane (bronze/silver/gold), but as far as i'm concerned, Sona is, as soon as early game is done, a monster in her own right. I build her AP, Lich's Bane, Rabadons, Luden's Echo, usually have a health item somewhere in there as well. I buy wards until i get the trinket upgrade, and i ask my ADC to do the same. Every game above 30 minutes, i manage to sell my early completed Frost Queen's Claim at a profit of around 200-500 gold. I have enough poke to more than half kill a Zed in the middle of a teamfight. Depending on their build, i can 1v1 a roaming ADC, or at least force them to retreat (when one poke drops you to 400 health...) And that's not counting the amazing scaled up healing/shield and the insane speedups.

Retillin1 votes

If it works for you go for it. I never see a Sona build hard AP that isn't just punished for it. Lack of sight/utility/tankyness that she does not have that way always seems to hurt the ones I play with/against.

GinoSoldier1 votes

For people complaining about Sona's Q and W weakness compared to Nami/anyone else's, keep in mind you have to double the score. Sona's Q is only 40 damage at lvl 1? No, it's actually 80, not counting the AA buffs. Applying both you and your ADC's AA is another 60 or 40, i believe? No, Sona is not at all the weakest in terms of pokes. She's actually among the strongest. Same for her healing, and keep in mind that shield value can be given to up to five people. Granted some/most of it most often won't see use, but it's still there.

As Sona, i play pure bully as soon as i hit lvl 3 unless some kind of catastrophe happens to me (most often that's trying to pick a fight at lvl 1 or a Blitzcrank being around). My goal is to make sure both the enemy laners can't interfere with my carry's farming. Plus, since i always bring spellthief, it feeds me, too.

Yes, i tend to get punished, mostly when there are assassins in play, but a Zed that ults me is a Zed that doesn't ult anyone else. And assuming i'm not roaming alone like a moron (which i often am) the enemy usually just won't dare try to initiate if it's not a full 5v5. Which we usually win, because i give my teammates 30% speed ups and 500+ heals by then. Key rule, is know when to poke and don't ever get caught.

Warding-wise, i don't see sightstone as an option anymore. I'll buy pinks, sure. I'll buy greens too, until the trinket is upgraded. But as soon as lvl 9 is hit, i don't see why i'd spend 800 gold on something when i can get the same thing for 250, and take the rest of the gold someplace better. (like towards a Rylai's)

Emmy Cha0s1 votes

@GinoSoldier

You're not the only person that can make intentionally misleading and false propaganda to justify your Riot-worshiping.

"Sona does 80 damage"?

  • Bard does 160 damage
  • Nami's W does 120 damage
  • Nami's Q can do 375 damage
  • Leona's W and E can do 300 damage each

"Sona heals 60 HP"?

  • Kayle heals 60
  • Soraka heals 120
  • Taric heals 120
  • Nami heals 112
  • Bard heals 210
  • Alistar heals 180 + (#of minions x 30)

Even using your own biased and purposefully disinformative logic, I just proved that Sona is STILL the weakest champion. Although, I'm sure you're just going to continue denying truth, seeing as how you're already a devout worshiper of your omnipotent Riot deities.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

{quoted}

I cried a little when her MS was nerfed. Whatever reason they gave, I didn't buy it with the range of her Q and the MS of her counters Leona Thresh Blitzcrank being oppressive enough. It just didn't seem fair.

>Sona's counters are popular >Things Sona counters are unpopular

Now, it could be that there's some other factor at work here, but perhaps the poke mages that sona is a hard counter to, aren't being played because the enemy team could have a sona who completely invalidates you?

Emmy Cha0s1 votes

That logic WOULD hold true, except that Morgan and Janna, 2 of the main champs that Sona 'theoretically counters' are far more popular than herself.

Things Sona "counters" ARE popular

Yet, I've heard and seen numerous first-hand accounts that despite theoretically countering these two champs, she's lucky to even break even against them. This was not the case pre-4.13 where she blatantly hard-won the lane with ease.

Sona has been nerfed so hard, she can barely hold out even with an upper-hand.

LankPants4 votes

Do you know what the base value of the heal at rank 1 is though? It's a grand total of 30HP. Nami's heal at rank 1 heals for 65 and deals damage to the enemy. She also gets more from maxing it than Sona does from maxing her heal since it does damage.

Voluug134 votes

She isnt a ''exciting'' or ''fun'' champion to watch, or so says Riot.

Narasimha1 votes

To jump in, it was most likely a preemptive nerf. With the new Sona skin coming out, its pretty safe to assume we'd be flooded with "OMG SONA SO OP PLZ NERF" threads and rants everywhere. I could be wrong, but that seems the most logical explanation to me.

Fraggleroc3 votes

{quoted}

So if a number change is 5-10 minutes and "Modifying Magical Journey" takes "a bit longer," then hypothetically, how long would it take to revert 29 separate nerfs all on a single champion? Just for example, let's say the 23 nerfs to Sona in 4.13 and 6 additional nerfs after?

this is a good point... the time spent iterating and re-iterating minute changes cannot be justified vs a big sweeping change sometimes.

3 big sweeping changes > saves more time > more productivity > 23 small changes (sometimes)

Xela Syab1 votes

{quoted}

Fair question.

The actual process of entering balance changes can be almost that quick for something really basic. Changing a spell's base damage for example probably takes 5-10 minutes (find the right file, change a few numbers, make a note of the change for the patch notes, create a ticket to ensure the changes get tested, submit the changes to the internal server). Some stuff's much harder to adjust than changing a couple of numbers though, so can take quite a bit longer (modifying Bard's Magical Journey so that clones could use it too in the last patch for example).

Generally though, implementing the change isn't the time consuming part. Most of a balance designer's time is spent on analyzing the state of the game and testing changes that have already been implemented. Changing stuff quick's not the bottleneck, it's getting sufficient confidence that we're changing the right things in the right ways (and even with a lot of time put into that we'll be wrong sometimes of course).

One small side note - while we do get interns each year, they're not here to do menial data entry to make things easier for other people. Goal of the internships is basically to offer a couple of months of work experience as a normal Rioter. That means that interns on design teams for example do the same analysis, testing, implementation etc that other designers do (though with a chunk of extra support and mentoring of course, since they've got less experience to draw on usually).

I think you guys spend too much analyzing and not enough time PLAYING lol. Sometimes you just gotta play the game a week and you find what stuff needs balancing. What's been happening to your game is that you're buffing whole classes of champs with item fixes that now become meta picks and people now follow a new meta every week. The pick and ban phase is almost meaningless since whole classes of champs are in the same state. I think you guys need to focus more on bug fixes than actual champion changes, stuff like hitbox detection, ability reads, and champs like Quinn that are almost at a state of nonplay because of bugs. Essentially you can find out why champs are underplayed or lower than average winrates based on these issues. I still play the game alot and enjoy the game but I feel like I have to relearn the whole game because of the meta paradigms. Last couple patches I'd never play Olaf, now I'm wrecking with him because enemy comps stack cc teamfight tanks now. Essentially I think you guys need to diversify carry itemization, everyone just gets TF or IE and same other stuff, bruisers and tanks need some more itemization as well, give magus sustain or magic pen, give devour cdr or tenacity. This is a weird meta where champs like Kog are seen as massive threats and Zed seems to do no damage lol.

KageBunshin911 votes

Thanks for the answer :)

And while I got a CS degree instead of Video game sounds like for the mentoring part I should have come to you guys. I got dropped in an ocean and wished good luck haha.

And as an aside for those saying to stop attacking, I'm by no means attacking, I was just more curious in a field I don't have physical experience in.

usul12028 votes

There are just so many ways to balance a champion. lets take a controversial one, because it is one of my favorites: Ziggs.

So, lets look at every way I can think of off the top of my head (and if i miss a reasonable one, comment it as well, as he has a LOT)

you can:

  1. change mana costs
  2. change damage values
  3. change the spell width of his Q
  4. change the explosion radius of Q
  5. change the number of bombs that come in his E
  6. change the spread distance of his E
  7. change the distance of the knockback on his W
  8. change the time ticking on his W
  9. change the range on his spells (especially ult)
  10. change explosion radius on ult/damage per distance from center
  11. change base stats (health, health per level, mana, mana per level, MR, Armor, MS, the like)
  12. change the travel speed of his abilities
  13. change the number of bounces on his Q
  14. change how the spells interact with minions (especially on bounces with the Q)
  15. change the cool-down lengths of spells

All of these are viable changes, and frequently riot looks to a mixture between these options. Riot is very good about not just blanket fixing, but making sure that they fix the real issue with the right tool, not just 'buff teh damages!' or 'nerf teh cool-downs!'. it's a ver delicate slider between OP and UP for many champions, as kassadin and zed and ryze show very well.

The5lacker7 votes

Imagine, for a moment, that you're Atlas. You're carrying the world on your shoulders. You have to remain vigilant to make sure the world doesn't drop. Then, one day, a mosquito bites your hand.

If you reach up to swat it, the heavens crash down around you and the world is ended. Yes, you killed the mosquito, but you also broke literally everything else in your haste.

Hyperbole? Yes. Still a strong analogy? Also yes. Hasty reactions do nothing but hurt the game, unless the problem is so dire as to require a hasty reaction. It's better to deal with solving long-running trends than just slap down whoever happens to be popular this month. ... Which is why I'd love if Riot would actually do that instead of sitting around with their thumbs up their ass.

Retillin1 votes

Well I guess the question is, why are some champions allowed to be strong and popular each month while others get nerfed right away? I think that is the main crux of the issue.

The5lacker2 votes

Because some champions aren't quite as "strong and popular" as people make them out to be, even if they're a frustrating pain in the ass.

The biggest reason, however, is that Riot doesn't want the game to get into a rut. So if a certain champion is dominant, rather than complain, Riot wants people to counterpick that champion. The problems stem from when there aren't enough champions or items for a champion to get counterpicked, or even when counterpicked these champions do well.

I think Riot's goals have gotten skewed over the years. They've put a lot of work into making the game an enjoyable spectator sport without factoring in the fact that 95% of their players are never going to play at that level, and have to deal with annoying bullshit like Lee or Nid all the time. Yes, they look cool for everyone watching, but being hit by invisible spears, or executed with a 600 (+200% bonus AD) damage kick isn't fun to be on the receiving end of.

PodunkTheMighty4 votes

Riot's policy seems to be balancing after something's proven to be off on a pro/overwhelming level. I don't think they are confident in their ability to balance the game any other way, because the times that they do there's a large amount of backlash or confusion at the changes that don't seem to follow any sort of logic in or out of context.

Edge of Daybreak2 votes

Wow the sona drones derailed this super hard for no reason. Still has no real basis for asking for buffs but the QQ continues.

Balance should be well thought out and take a while to actually make sure those changes are okay aka dont heavily reduce that champions potential while making them slightly less obnoxious.

With the way people constantly complain that changes were rushed or not thought out well changes coming faster would only fuel that fire.

What could help appease the community is just to let us know that at least you guys acknowledge that something is too strong or people do not like playing against it. You could use more majority wins type decisions when it comes to who is actually annoying since it is subjective. Basically take a stance and stick with it so that people shut up about it. For example when someone says "You nerfed this champion now they are weaker so rebuff them back to when they were a problem." Just tell them what's up and move on Give them the hard truth. If a champ gets 30 nerfs and goes from 52% winrate to 51% winrate chances are they are fine and didnt need the excess power. If you get 15 silver players complaining about lee sin when he isn't even problematic at that skill level but they wanna be in the circlejerk them just tell them that and move on.

MAZZ1M01 votes

I agree with you, especially on the Lee Sin bit. So many threads b#$%ing about him and he doesn't crowd out anyone. He's just safe. There's nothing wrong with that considering he can't carry past the 25 min mark (assuming your team isn't rolling over against him.)

I think Riot is two things; One: generally gun-shy. They ask us to share our opinions on changes and they get them. Sona feedback was overwhelmingly negative. Even now I'm still wondering what the deal is. Half the people I play with who like Sona never played her pre-rework to compare. I don't find her fun to play anymore. The groans about a supp picking Sona post-rework are a less frequent now though. Two: Riot is learning. With a game like LoL, past experience doesn't mean as much when you're changing something new as circumstances or unpredictable oddities will alter the success of a change. Some of the changes don't make sense at all, but I think that's more due to bad planning than anything. They appear to piece-mail changes each patch without just waiting and dumping a theoretically functioning system on us all at once. While that makes us suffer in the meantime, they get data that lets them adjust as they go. That's the only logic I think up anyway.

Sirsir1 votes

There are so many factors. Balancing over 120 champions with all the base stats each and 5-9 spells (counting passives), with all the masteries effects, around a more-complex-than-most damage system, is not a simple or quick matter. Plus the new things

BlueThingamajig1 votes

There's also an argument to be had for an imperfectly balanced game. By constantly cycling buffs and nerfs, different champions get exposure and playtime, causing the experience to evolve. The champions picked in LCS change. The champions picked for solo queue change. Its becomes a fresh (ish) experience when something big like Cinderhulk happens. Lane dynamics change because Tank junglers have a different kind of threat than the fighters that had been dominating for such a long time. I can play more aggressively in lane because I know that I can escape certain junglers that aren't Lee Sin in the first 3 levels.

"Perfect Balance" also has disparity between "LCS Perfect Balance" and "Solo Queue Perfect Balance" (And even then, disparity between Masters perfect balance and Gold perfect balance). It is why so many people dislike Lee Sin and #LC$BigPlays. Having Lee Sin as a top-tier competitive pick for over 2 years made LCS less interesting to watch. Now, we suddenly have support Nautilus and the resurgence of Volibear or Amumu jungle.

And will the tank-jungle get boring in a few months? Absolutely. But a perfect imbalance keeps the game experience fresh, while seeing the same 6 bans and 10 picks in every game is mind-numbingly dull.

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7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes