Sincere message to Junglers: Botlane defines games.

Jxshe··9 votes·611 views

I'm a support main. For five games in a row, our jungler has not come botlane prior to 8 minutes. 8 minutes in, the enemy jungler has already ganked us twice. Now, before you junglers try to make excuses:

  1. We are not pushing up. The lane is frozen in the middle.
  2. I have placed a control ward along the river. There is no enemy ward.
  3. I have pinged the necessary enemy summoner spells.

In every, single, game, the enemy ADC has gotten either one or two kills and then, ten minutes later, is 12/1 and we've lost all mid towers and inhib. Our ADC is irrelevant as he was not able to survive in lane to CS - even under tower. I have looked at the friendly jungler's match history - in literally every instance of a defeat they have (and yes, I'm talking about more than one separate jungle player) - the enemy ADC is fed.

Bot lane defines games. No other lane affects the game like bot does. If bot stomps, they can then rotate mid and take towers, which then relieves pressure so that they can easily take dragons. Watch any pro-level LCS play. They focus on botlane. In team fights they stop at nothing to keep the enemy off the ADC. Because they recognize the sheer power an ADC has to change a game's flow.

It is your responsibility to watch bot lane. There is no excuse for not coming botlane. You can camp top lane to get our Riven fed all you want. It means nothing when she gets deleted by the enemy Jinx.

23 Comments

Brotha2 votes

{quoted}

It is your responsibility to watch bot lane. There is no excuse for not coming botlane. You can camp top lane to help our Riven feed all you want. It means nothing when she gets deleted by the enemy Twitch.

ftfy

Jxshe1 votes

???

x Royal Solo x2 votes

Not saying those junglers were wrong or right, I don't know how the games went.

I just want to say you should take more responsibility for your lane. It's nobodies fault you feed except your own.

Jxshe1 votes

This is the most common argument/discussion I see, and yes, it is up to you (the laner) to perform as well as possible. But what happens when the enemy team just has an absolutely oppressive bot lane? Twitch + Brand, Twitch + Lulu, Cait + Sona, Jinx + Thresh etc etc etc. What happens if your team's ADC and Supp are forced under tower and he's missing a lot of CS to the tower?

In my absolute, resolute belief - it is the jungler's responsibility to assist bot lane. If you say it's not, then what the hell else is the jungler's job? Remove the role and turn the game to a 4v4.

x Royal Solo x1 votes

they should assist you, that is true.

Bańg2 votes

apparently this post gets upvoted being that bot defines games but another post has 30 upvotes claiming bot doesnt affect the game more than others.

i dont get this site.

Jxshe1 votes

I think it depends on what Elo you are in. I watch a lot of pro play and there is a lot of focus on bot lane, as well as protecting the ADC at all costs in team fights. For me personally, I'm in Silver, and I'd like to think that teams have more coordination and IQ since being in Bronze.

SnakDatSmilesBak1 votes

Just a little bit more iq. Coordination is too much to ask for even in gold.

Kirius Dark2 votes

Maybe because in Pro play their bot lane is reliable and able to carry if they got ahead, whereas for you being in silver 4 @35% winrate I'd rather be ganking a lane that's winning and can actually carry. If the laner is doing well theyve already proved to me they are capable of using the lead to do even better.

Ganking for you losing your lane is a waste of time

Looking at all your games you're getting late ass sightstones/sweeper/controlwards whichi means even if a jungler comes to gank you arent getting vision control to make sure the jungler comes in without being seen. You're buying a ton of stupid shit early like item 1026 item 3057 which doesnt help your ADC or jungler to do their jobs. I see that and know we have a stupid support and bot likely not going to carry well because they arent being supported properly in laning

Quit bitching when you are the issue to begin with

ForFoxSakes2 votes

^So much truth

ZILLAGULA1 votes

[deleted]

Jxshe1 votes

See, my response to that would be (and it's not necessarily resigned to Riven - I just used her as an example):

The 70% winrate top laner, unless it's someone like Jax who is unstoppable once he gets a lead (until he comes up against a 9/0 Twitch), the fed top laner is rendered null by a fed ADC. Because all the enemy team has to do is CC down the fed laner and protect the ADC, and the ADC will tear apart the team.

Example:

Enemy team has a 10/2 Tristana with 3 completed crit items. My team has a top/mid laner who is maybe, let's say 6/1? Stomped their lane, has 3/4 items. But our botlane has, collectively, 12 deaths. And an ADC who has 1 completed item, 1 completed boots and half a 2nd item with half the cs of the enemy ADC. And let's also say it's not like that ADC player is bad. Maybe they have a good winrate? 60%? They just had a horrible laning phase because they were abused (despite the support trying as hard as possible to protect them) and received no assistance from the jungler.

The enemy ADC will tear through the team. It doesn't matter if it's a fed Riven, Yasuo, other carry champs - the fed adc will be unstoppable. All because bot was given no help early on, even when they were only down say - one kill?

I generalize based on facts and experiences that are really starting to pile up.

OMGSoAnnoying1 votes

Looking at the match history, here's what I see. I can't answer for the jg players in your games, but from my own perspective:

I see a lot of lanes where you're going into a Thresh/Jhin with Bard/Kog or Bard/Ashe. That is one seriously dangerous lane to gank since Jhin has a lot of early damage with his 4th shot and Thresh has gobs of disengage. A lane frozen in the middle would give not much room for a successful gank unless your jungler is also bringing a lot of CC themselves. Since I'm seeing mostly Rengar in your games, eh, he has his bola. Since the enemy has so much cc (Jhin W and E, Thresh Q, E and possibly R), he'll be saving his fero stacks for his W to clear it, or for Q for more damage.

It's a low-percentage chance for success based on the info you put up (the other big indicator I use is relative health -- are you mid to low while they're healthy or vice versa?), particularly if the enemy jg has not been spotted in a while. It's higher if we can do a lane gank (from the bush by the wall instead of coming down the river), but a lane frozen in the middle doesn't let us do that. Those are best set up by shoving the lane a bit and then falling back and letting the wave push towards you. If you can't shove the wave, let them push. Give your jungler some more room to work with.

I'm an equal opportunity ganker (if I see a good opportunity and I'm nearby, I'll gravitate to the lanes) but Thresh worries me because I've lost count of how many good shots I've taken that he screws us and suddenly we get counter-ganked and double- or triple-killed.

ForFoxSakes1 votes

I dont sway from ganking based on the champs, but like you said and I agree on based on opportunity.

If the allied bot is shoved to tower with 25% HP vs the full enemy, its often useless for me to gank since the allies can barely help. I can show up, clear some vision, scare them back but that just wastes my time when there's no kill or advantage gained for going there.

ForFoxSakes1 votes

If the Trist has 3 items vs the allied ADC who has 1 then the ADC is most likely bad. If they're losing they can still farm under tower. If they get dove under tower then that's the support's fault for not providing any vision as to incoming jungler and/or midlane which 100% I guarantee you DO NOT DO since you dont even get a sightstone until laning phase is OVER.

Your "facts and experience" at super low ELO really piling up. OK

SnakDatSmilesBak1 votes

Yup there's nothing more frustrating than when you get your adc fed, but then the entire enemy team comes, and camps you until your turret goes down while your team sits in their own lanes csing peacefully.

Jxshe1 votes

Can't tell if this is sarcasm or not? Although my favourite excuse the team gives is "if I stop to help you I'll lose exp and gold".

A lot of good that gold and exp will do you when you see the "(insert enemy adc name here) is godlike/dominating/legendary".

Brotha1 votes

Downvoted for agreeing, feelsgoodman.

Thunderneedle1 votes

8 minutes is the mark when your jungle should be level 6.

I as Eve jungle (squishy, dies fast) will either cheese gank bot at level 2 (while everyone is still 1) or i will wait to lvl 6 for my 500hp shield to force a gank.

I will only gank bot otherwise when they are pushed near our tower or to countergank.

3v2 is harder than 2v1.

You also really do not want to die. 1 for 1 in a 3v2 is really bad. You want to go 2 for 0.

FooDang1 votes

{quoted}

1 for 1 in a 3v2 is really bad.

Depends on who dies and who gets the kills and who gets First Blood.

If the enemy ADC gives First Blood to your ADC and the enemy support gets the kill with Ignite on your support I call that a good trade.

Baron Barian1 votes

Nearly lost a game for the exact reason because the enemy adc and support was constantly pushing the lanes, making a gank super easy, the jungler never ganked for us, we got several times, and lost the bot tower before the 10 minute mark.

Even if we get no kills or give up first tower anyway, all I ask is for some pressure to be released.

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