They should just remove the AD steroid from Vayne's ultimate because it's just way too oppressive.

REZUSDAGIUSH2··81 votes·5,541 views

Edit: An idea to rework would be to make it like Garen's old W passive, except on the active.

Something like: Vayne's attack damage is increased by X% of her bonus attack damage.

Would make her less oppressive and to obtain the current values, she would have to rush some early AD.

I mean, why the hell is she still allowed to get an AD steroid on her ultimate?

Since Patch 5.22, they increased the % max health true damage to 6/7.5/9/10.5/12% from 4/5/6/7/8%. This is already a huge fucking buff. To compensate, they removed the base damage (tho they added a minimum damage for no reason, as it's MAXIMUM health and not CURRENT health) and removed a little bit of her AD per level.

However, none of this fucking matters.

Vayne has always AND will always rush attack speed. Just see her current build patch and how bullshit it is: item 3094 item 3046 item 3153 item 3031 item 3036 item 1300

4 of those items are attack speed items. She literally ony has her IE and armor pen item that is giving her AD (and a bit from BoTRK), giving her only 130 Bonus AD. However, she doesn't care.

Why?

Because of her fucking ultimate that's why.

Why is this champion, first of all, allowed to have a build path that literally gives her NO AD at all, yet, still deals a huge amount of physical damage. If they wanted her to be a Silver Bolt bot, that's fine. At least, some squishies can beat her like Assassins or burst mages. However, she does fucking both right now: Assassinating Tanks AND Squishies. All this because of her stupid Bonus AD from her ultimate.

She gets 30/55/70 AD from it.

That's why she doesn't need to build attack damage at all, unlike all other ADCs who need to buy expensive AD items like IE or Essence Reaver. Attack speed items are wayyyyy cheaper than AD items and thus, making her comeback more quickly even though she might have slost lane to someone like Lucian or Ezreal. She already gets 30-50% AD on her AAs each 2 seconds with her Q (even less as the cooldown starts after the cast), then she gets a huge AD steroid on her ultimate.

Please Riot, just remove the Bonus AD from her ultimate. If she needs to buy AD, then she should fucking buy AD, not press R and "hurr durr, bloodthirster's equivalent of AD".

P.S. OH yeah. Even though she only builds attack speed, she still gets a decent 4% attack speed per level, the highest amount every ADCs. And she still gets a decent amount of AD. rofl.

78 Comments

IcyPepper19 votes

I don't want to be that guy, but...

giving her only 130 Bonus AD.

.

allowed to have a build path that literally gives her NO AD at all,

I mean, it's not a lot of AD, but when you have "literally" followed by an all caps statement, it sounds like you're serious.

REZUSDAGIUSH28 votes

That's my NaCl, don't mind it

:^)

IcyPepper12 votes

Hey now, you may be from OCE but we from NA know all about Cl

:3

REZUSDAGIUSH26 votes

God damnit, that pun rofl.

IcyPepper6 votes

lol that one guy downvoting both of us.

I'm not sure if that counts as ironic, but I appreciate the salt from him nonetheless. I am terrible with the puns, but I upvoted you because I like you.

Don't take me too seriously, though. I know full well what you meant, and I totally agree that Vayne's ult isn't really that fair since it has a lot of effects tied to it and the AD is kind of unnecessary. It'd probably make more sense for her to get an AS buff rather than AD, but whatever I guess.

REZUSDAGIUSH27 votes

Or it should just give her like Riven's ult does.

Like a % of her Bonus AD.

That would make it more fair as she gets more AD IF she bought a good amount of AD.

IcyPepper4 votes

Can you imagine a full AD Vayne that ults and suddenly three-shots you? XD

Although I'm not sure she should get AD at all. I think her ult should focus more on her mobility and invisibility aspect, maybe boost the range/speed/cooldown of her Q and focus on that. Focus on her duelist side, rather than giving her the potential to be a heavy hitter like Riven.

Finesse over brutality is what I'm saying, I suppose.

junglerboy163 votes

30% bonus AD would be a fair buff imo. If she has the build you mentioned, and maybe some extra AD from runes and masteries, she could have around 150 bonus AD, so the steroid would give 45 AD.

If she actually built a fair amount of AD (say item 3031 item 3072 item 3139 item 3142 item 3006 item 3046 for about 300 bonus with Runes and masteries, I know, that's a weird Vayne build) she'd get around 90 bonus AD. She'd have almost no attack speed compared to normal, but she'd have a ton of raw damage. If anything, giving her a % bonus AD amp would give her options to specialize for a match, like optimizing against tanks with AS and her true damage, or optimizing for raw dueling power by investing in damage instead.

DeusVult2 votes

Compared to every other ADC in the game, even Ezreal, 130 AD is as close to no AD as it gets.

Nearly all of Vayne's damage now comes from her ult and W procs. its retarded

Prospector Pete17 votes

Meanwhile Twitch only gets 20/30/40. A number like that would be more appropriate for Vayne.

weeaboomer12 votes

[{quoted}](name=Prospector Pete,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9N0h9YOw,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-12-31T23:20:08.716+0000)

Meanwhile Twitch only gets 20/30/40.

Yes, lets give it 100+ ad instead since you know, it's only single target and not aoe with a huge range boost.

Remlap12236 votes

To be fair, the damage is reduced for each enemy hit. Yeah 100 AD is obviously too much, but 40 is pathetic since it falls off on the second target hit.

Jari6 votes

Going to be that guy here, but based on what I'm reading on boards, I don't think even Vayne can react to the .01 second kill that a Rengar gets.

roflcopterssssss3 votes

vayne is one of the few who could potentially avoid rengar his burst because her stealth is instant which I don't beleive an ADC should have but hey...

lordodane13 votes

have to ulti then q your really lucky if you can pull it off in time and if he has a pink gg

10Tickler1 votes

He doesn't even need a pink. Heat-sight

Maikal1 votes

If the Vayne buffers her E constantly she can just condemn rengar mid air. Especially if she knew he was coming if she saw him before stealth. And if Vayne has a pink it's just as much gg for rengar.

Spaceman5pff1 votes

If i see a vayne on the enemy team, I just dont even pick rengar anymore.

Troiann1 votes

It requires extremely good reaction timing. But I think there's a video with QT doing it.

I mean, you gotta have good reaction time to land any sort of CC on a vayne late game....so....i guess it's even.

Spacesuit Spiff5 votes

Thats the point of her though. She builds AS instead of AD. If you want to argue the ramifications of that fine, but shes balanced around being forced into that build path. Running on AS so much is what controls her power curve as a hypercarry.

Besides, the vayne qq isnt in season this week go make a rengar thread.

Dengeden4 votes

The idea behind Vayne is a champion that loves autoattacking but has nothing in her kit that gives her AS. Vayne would love bonus AS on anything, it means more silver bolts. The %AD bonus is a much better idea (even if it is pretty much a nerf).

Now that I've been diplomatic, let's get something straight here. Any ADC that isn't tied to AD items is awesome. They don't have hurr durr insta clear the wave AD scaling spells. They don't need to get Infinity or Reaver, items that are entirely contingent on getting crits, to accentuate their damage. They can build whatever the heck they want because they aren't tied to the standard Crit - Crit harder - Crit more often - LS/Ar Pen adc build. Versatility is a good thing, yo. It allows for comebacks, yes but that's not entirely a bad thing.

PabloMaster543213 votes

Yeah, i hate vayne shes way too strong, i legit got 3 pentas the first 3 games i played as her, and i was like........... Wow.......... So hard to play, so balanced.

weeaboomer6 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, i hate vayne shes way too strong, i legit got 3 pentas the first 3 games i played as her, and i was like........... Wow.......... So hard to play, so balanced.

Sureeee you did. Like that one game you fed 13 kills.

Drehirth1 votes

Destroyed

r u pregrant1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tobi Only Sways,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9N0h9YOw,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-12-31T23:16:53.994+0000)

Sureeee you did. Like that one game you fed 13 kills.

OMG I WUD BE SO EMBARASSED IF AHHHLEOLEOL

Sinister Anubis3 votes

this thread is way to oppressive

SirHeavyScrotum3 votes

Vayne is one of the worst AD's right now. I'm not the only one that thinks that, Doublelift and someone else, I think it was Sneaky, said the same thing. Her auto range is too short against all the fighters getting play right now and tanks aren't super meta right now, and she has no wave clear and a super weak laning phase. Basically every ADC in plat likes Vayne because she's fun so everyone thinks she's super good because they see one do well every now and then. But for every Vayne that does well there is another playing at a higher level that doesn't. I don't think she's repressive at all.

Drehirth1 votes

This is the truth yet people refuse to believe it because they hate vayne.

Lithium Rosa1 votes

LOL I get screwed by good Vaynes and even ban Vayne some times, but I totally agree what you said, Vayne is generally weak, and she has been weak during the past several years. That is exactly why Vayne plays are precious

weeaboomer2 votes

{quoted}

P.S. OH yeah. Even though she only builds attack speed, she still gets a decent 4% attack speed per level, the highest amount every ADCs. And she still gets a decent amount of AD. rofl.

I'm pretty sure AS per level was reduced for every ADC. Not entirely sure, but I suggest YOU read the patch notes. Also, i'm pretty sure her Q CD isn't like riven's bullshit Q cd that starts when you cast it. Have you ever played vayne? If she doesn't build as much ad i'm sure she won't be hitting as hard as a jinx with rockets from 700+ range with more ad than her.

Seriously, have you even played her? I'm sure the answer is no.

REZUSDAGIUSH24 votes

No, every ADC got their AD/lvl reduced, not AS/lvl.

Yes, her Q cooldown starts at the cast of her Q like Riven's Q, this was changed patches ago.

So before you start acting smart, try to know your shit before.

weeaboomer3 votes

{quoted}

No, every ADC got their AD/lvl reduced, not AS/lvl.

Yes, her Q cooldown starts at the cast of her Q like Riven's Q, this was changed patches ago.

I guess i mistook it for the other champs who got their as lowered.

ANYWAYS, her Q cd does not work like rivens. Idk what vayne you've been playing.

REZUSDAGIUSH23 votes

Then you might want to look at the 5.14 Patch Notes.

I suggest YOU read the patch notes.

weeaboomer2 votes

{quoted}

Then you might want to look at the 5.14 Patch Notes.

I suggest YOU read the patch notes.

Please show me how vayne's Q works like riven's Q cd.

commit an hero4 votes

{quoted}

Then you might want to look at the 5.14 Patch Notes.

I suggest YOU read the patch notes.

I suggest you actually read that patch notes. It says when the attack is launched not hit. That was the change not like Riven's Q. So as soon as her AA leaves it starts the cooldown. It is only a small buff. It's like 0.25 difference.

MunchCrunchLunch2 votes

truth spoken. i was ekko. with a dead mans plate. and i was getting almost 3 shotted by her when she ults. stupidity. she has the highest AS at level 18 in teh game. silverbolts alone is the most broken passive in the game. imagine if bork did max health true damage. her passive is basically 2 of these. not to mention its impossible to run away from her if you just happen to run into her. good luck with that

Sincarnation2 votes

Im ok with vayne being high damage, however if she is going to be late game hyper carry duelist of tank shredding she needs to have significant weaknesses. I want her passive ms buffed and for her to lose 50-75 range, she can chase but she can't flee. She also has to be much closer to her target. She shouldnt have 550 range for all the damage and dueling power she has.

Omiwom2 votes

She's supposed to be strong late. God forbid a hyper carry's ultimate should increase their dps.

She's not strong early if that's what you're implying. Shove her under tower it'll be a pain in the ass for her to last hit if she rushes item 3086 . Also trade one to two autos with her and back out. Don't let her proc W and you've won the trade because you probably have an extra 50 ad from youritem 1038. Now that Silver Bolts doesn't deal flat dmg anymore it's worse against squishies as well. Another window of opportunity for you to punish her in lane. Also item 3153 isn't great anymore so I don't know what you're smoking.

All of these little things add up to make her early game a lot less strong than it used to be. Hyper carries will be stronger mid/late if you don't push them around, so stop being intimidated by her.

Elkington IV1 votes

I can't tell you how many times this season I've seen Vaynes start out 1/4 and end up 6/5 as soon as they complete item 3094. This is then followed by the team with the better Vayne winning.

It doesn't really seem to matter who's playing her either. I think hitting some of the AD on her ult would help separate the good Vaynes from the great Vaynes.

WolfBV1 votes

Well, she is a ranged assassin.

Maikal1 votes

She's not meant to be. Riot identifies her as a tank buster, which is why they changed silver bolts this preseason (Although they executed that change poorly). Yes I realize that the client says she's a marksmen/assassin. That was written 4 - 5 years ago. She's not supposed to be an assassin, duellist, tank buster, and have a lot of defense in her mobility, stealth and self peel. That's too much.

K541 votes

I handle Vayne the same way I handle MasterYi

... with Chogath DrMundo JarvanIV Malphite Maokai Olaf Sejuani Renekton Shyvana Sion Warwick MonkeyKing

Maikal1 votes

Surprised you didn't get downvoted to oblivion. She has like the highest pick rate in the game, and the silver Vayne mains want to believe she's balanced because they still lose when they get 20 kills but hey they got a lot of kills so they're a god and it's just elo hell/shit champ.

Another reason she is allowed to build a shit ton of attack speed while still outputting a tremendous amount of physical damage is because her Q is an auto reset that scales on TOTAL AD rather than bonus AD.

Her retarded mobility from passive (It's like 2000 range and you keep the move speed for like 2 seconds after they go out of vision) and Q and self peel from E doesn't help either, and you can't duel/assassinate her without a pink ward which you won't have room for late game.

King of Mongoose1 votes

wtf shes trash rt now and you want nerfs for her xd

why are you posting on my boards?

Duchess of Deer1 votes

vayne is in not that great a spot this patch mate her base ad has already been reduced by 30 and her core items was nerfed while every adc has gotten stronger in some way making her laning phase really hard. vayne has been put on the back burner due to her being strong a couple patches ago. I have almost over 300 game son her this season try playing her and tell me how op this build is

Faeri Pinkett1 votes

Vayne's ultimate should not be an AD steroid. I agree with that completely, I would consider it a massively unfair advantage, I would suggest removing it completely though.

"Marksmen with stealth?" "She can stealth for a second at a time?" Okay so the ultimate has some prettty unfair advantages to it compared to most marksmen. Attack steroid aside, she gains movement speed and a stealth on every q. Lets ask ourselves, how many times have we almost bursted a vayne - she's below 20% hp and she ult tumbles and re positions herself in a way that she just stuns us into a wall and kills us instantly.

No other adc can really 'do' this the way Vayne does, sure we got some mobile (Ez/Lucian) that can dash around. But they can't stealth. They have damage, but they can't stealth. She's more of a mobile - tank - killing - assasin. I mean her playstyle is very similar to that of (Lets mention her) fiora. Their both duelist, both of them have a kit that relies on bursts of true dmg, both of them have mobility dashes. Fiora's not even an assasin. Lets look at marksmen in comparison to vayne after that. Miss fortune. MF has damage, no mobility really, she can't use her ultimate in a fight with vayne because it puts her into a position that is a vayne tumble e away from dying. (ADcs with their own CC are so balanced.) Lucian, I think Lucian can actually out burst a vayne at the moment. IF vayne does not get off a e stun on him, he should beable to fight her. Ezre- Laughing. Quinn can fight vayne. I've seen it done so many times. Vayne ult, quinn Q's, E's her back and just smashes her face in. (Quinns new Q is a bit unfair but we won't really go there.) Grav- Nah. Sweating while laughing. New Cait can fight vayne, Skill level leads te charge, E trap trap trap trap trap (I've supported a caitlyn that literally beat a vayne with three headshots in a row. She caught vayne in a trap, headshot - E'd her head shot, then had placed a trap in a bush that vayne tried to tumble in - head shot kill.)

But if the vayne is level 6 the fight is in her favor everytime.

Okay so that leaves... Ashe? (Nope.) Kalista? (Eh. Supports matter too much.) Kindred - Yeah Kindred can do it.

She has a kit that is unique and involves a playstyle that is high risk, high reward. The biggest downfall is with the fact that the risk is not always enough to weigh against the reward. Her plain damage is just too high with her three auto true dmg.

Great damage, build in mobility and crowd control, she's already got a better kit than any other ADc. Unless the enemy team is running a frontline that can sit on her - shes going to easily kill your whole team.

Sorry if this is a bit messy, typing while watching TV is quite heinous.

Troiann1 votes

So just throw in a Zed W passive, that scales from 5% to 20% at level 16.

Lithium Rosa1 votes

Vayne is nowhere close to overpowered. Skilled Vayne are annoying indeed but that's because they are skilled and they are rare. If you can't win an unskilled Vayne and think that's because Vayne is op...........You need some practice

It doesn't matter how much data you throw out, the fact is vayne has 49.41% win rate

JMoormann1 votes

Don't know why one champ has the highest base AS at 18 of all champs in the game, and a massive AD steroid, and disgusting amounts of %max health true damage, and incredible self peel.

The only reason she isn't in every single game right now is because some other ADCs are even stronger.

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