Vayne ADC starting BotRK is terrible

Jay bone78·Mar 31, 2019·2 votes·3,246 views

Disclaimer: I am not a 'Vayne main'. I do not regularly play Vayne, and from my memory I have not played Vayne since 2016. I do, however, consider my experience in the game since July of 2012 to be worth the lot of you stopping here to understand where I am coming from. I am also bronze 3 currently, my highest ranking only being silver 5. The statements you are about to read and have read from the title are opinionated (although coming from my own experience and match history logs) - I hope that Vayne mains and higher ranked Summoners will come here to shed some light on Vayne starting BotRK and what is required to make this option work i.e. composition of champions, expectations, and pure skill - whilst using the item.

 Vaynes ![Vayne](https://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/16.21.1/img/champion/Vayne.png)  starting BotRK ![item 3153](https://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/16.21.1/img/item/3153.png)  - why? I have lost every game where a Vayne has started BotRK. I see this happen time and time again. With Vaynes' passive "W" dealing true damage every 3rd hit, why would you build an attack speed item first? It would make more sense to use your "W" passive in combination with already dealing high amounts of damage early on.
 Even though I say it is a terrible starting item I am not saying that it should not be the first item that you complete. My goal is to raise awareness that damage on an ADC is of utmost importance. Buy a short sword if you have to back with a minimal amount of gold, but please, please do not recall to purchase double daggers early in the game. The best route in my opinion is to try and start with a B.F. Sword or a Pickaxe, and then you start to build BotRK with cutlass first. This will help you to manage your lane if you are against a hard pushing enemy. It will also help you to deal modest damage with quick pokes to the enemy without needing to rely on stacking "W" to the third hit.
Another key point is to be aware of the enemy. Not many champions that you will encounter bot-lane have high enough armor, or health stats or tank stats in general, to force you to rely on stacking your "W" for true damage. Being that your passive "W" and BotRK are necessary to shred tanks, think of what scenario you would need armor-piercing true-damage. _Definitely not for a kai'sa and a blitzcrank who starts ancient coin._ (You know who you are, and I'm certain you lost that game).

25 Comments

Daddy AntsMar 31, 20195 votes

Are people running out of things to cry about?

BoTRK has been a signature item on Vayne EVER SINCE HER RELEASE.

HellfrostMar 31, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Are people running out of things to cry about?

BoTRK has been a signature item on Vayne EVER SINCE HER RELEASE.

except for when rapidfire canon first came out, but that was the only time she went full crit builds... other than that, yeah botrk is really good on her

The Bad TouchMar 31, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Are people running out of things to cry about?

BoTRK has been a signature item on Vayne EVER SINCE HER RELEASE.

That literally can't be true.

Vayne was released in May 2011. BotRK wasn't added til October 2012.

Vayne just built like a typical crit AD when she was released. Sometimes she'd rush a BT to stack it. She'd commonly start vamp scepter, but sometimes did boots + pots.

Her most common build was Zerk's/BT/PD/IE/PD/GA. Sometimes she'd go double BT.

LovelleApr 17, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Are people running out of things to cry about?

BoTRK has been a signature item on Vayne EVER SINCE HER RELEASE.

Botrk didn't exist when Vayne was released. When the item was first introduced, it had no attack speed and only melee junglers ever built it. It was pretty strong on them too, as whoever built it could easily solo baron. It wasn't until Riot added attack speed to it that adcs started picking it up, and it's warped the balance of the game ever since.

Sir SaltarinMar 31, 20194 votes

What the actual fuck is this thread, BotrK is a must first item on Vayne.

DynikusMar 31, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9F1PnfA9,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-03-31T22:38:19.857+0000)

What the actual fuck is this thread, BotrK is a must first item on Vayne.

It's a bronze 3 players that doesn't play vayne trying to tell vayne players what to build on her. [sg-zephyr]

Jay bone78May 18, 20191 votes

{quoted}

It's a bronze 3 players that doesn't play vayne trying to tell vayne players what to build on her. [sg-zephyr]

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/rankings/rank-distribution This discussion isn't about how well you can play Vayne, It's about what items give her the best outcome.

xDogMeatxMar 31, 20191 votes

lethality vayne anyone try using dusk build (yes theres crit in there) on her?

DynikusMar 31, 20191 votes

{quoted}

lethality vayne anyone try using dusk build (yes theres crit in there) on her?

why would you build lethality on a champion that does true damage?

xDogMeatxMar 31, 20191 votes

i just said abuse the duskblade.

DynikusMar 31, 20191 votes

{quoted}

i just said abuse the duskblade.

Okay but why? It has no synergy with her kit.

xDogMeatxMar 31, 20191 votes

when she ults during each tumble she procs it (since her ult is basically a weaker kha zix ult per tumble) unless im wrong how its not long enough to proc the usage.

Sir SaltarinMar 31, 20191 votes

You should try builds and that's for example how BotrK rush on MF was discovered and now it's her most boought first item.

But, you also have to recognized when it makes sense and when it doesn't, and going lethality Vayne is just a bad idea.

xDogMeatxMar 31, 20191 votes

im thinking of her ult tumbles with it since invisibility boosts the damage further with dusk.

Sir SaltarinMar 31, 20191 votes

Would you buy it as first item?

Because her laning fase would be horrible without lifesteal.

As second item there's no way the dmg of Duskblade is better than the huge synergy with her W and Rageblade.

As third item it starts to be posible, but then you would delay the crit and for what?, remember that the aa extra dmg has been nerfed so many items and that it's worse on rangeds aswell.

If Duskblade was on it's prime form I'm sure that she would buy it, but it isn't.

xDogMeatxMar 31, 20191 votes

im guessing if you hit it 2nd item it could be a hard cheese item that only works once your right there. maybe 4th item but get cloak/dirk 1st to get both ends but prioritize infinity edge.

DynikusMar 31, 20192 votes

I have lost every game where a Vayne has started BotRK.

If that's true, then you've lost every game you've had vayne. bork rageblade has been the build for a long time now.

bluefire mark 2Mar 31, 20191 votes

The thing with botrk, from me a vayne player but not really main, is that it is really good. So why botrk and not ie? Several reasons. The auto attacks from getting ie don't do as much damage as getting the passive procs. So the attack speed is really good there. But that's the smallest reason. The other reason is the on-hit. You do % current hp with every auto, and every third hit you do %max true. Get a rageblade second and now both of those plus penetration and rageblades on hit makes for lots of damage. But i think one of the most important things is the lifesteal, sustain. And the active helps as well. But the lifesteal plus attack speed plus on hit damage makes it a very good item on her to rush, especially good when getting rageblade second.

KlydeFrogMar 31, 20191 votes

if your maxing w first buy that, maxing q first buy heavy ad item first.

Daddy AntsMar 31, 20191 votes

{quoted}

if your maxing w first buy that, maxing q first buy heavy ad item first.

Crit build maxes Q yeah.

KlydeFrogApr 1, 20191 votes

me i usually mostly always get bf sword first regardless of adc i play exlcude ez. then 2nd item i get is geaves or rapid fire cannon. the q due to its easier harass i think cause tumble aa

AckelopeMar 31, 20191 votes

Some of your arguments make no sense... If you want to maximize your W passive damage, you should be buying more attack speed to be able to proc it more consistently, that's how attack speed works. BORK gives Vayne consistent and high damage for a first item and really cushions some of her early game weaknesses. BORK is a stronger standalone item than the other items that most ADCs buy.

Jay bone78May 18, 20191 votes

Okay, so I did the math...BotRK does more damage calculating 3 auto attacks Amumu The math was:

Lvl 5 Vayne (Botrk vs IE , no runes) VS. Lvl 5 Xayah (no items, no runes)
826.7 Health Xayah
Three auto attacks
Armor reduction calculated along with diminishing returns from BotRK
IE crit is not calculated
Vayne Ability map is: Q;WWW;E

The verdict was that with 3 auto attacks, item 3149 reduced Xayah health to 347.5472 while item 3031 reduced Xayah health to 424.9968

Is this the end?

SammyDayspringMay 18, 20191 votes

BOTRK is the best item on Vayne because of the combination of stats it provides. She is very squishy and relatively short ranged for an ADC. Being able to stack up 3 W's quickly while life-stealing allows her to poke in lane and farm with sustain. Adding Rageblade gives her a powerful 2 item spike that she didn't used to have.

That said, the OP isn't completely wrong. A lot of players starting out need AD/AP because they haven't mastered farming and trading. Straight-up damage helps simplify both. The items that work for beginner players and pro players are very different, and people shouldn't be afraid to go with what works for them.