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Getting dumpstered as Talon?

TwoD··1 votes·738 views

First, I use to be a really good Talon player, but I stopped playing him for some time and now that I've got back at him I can't help it but just keep getting trashed on laning phase. I didn't feel this weak when using him, up until now, like I have to play so safe just so I don't get punished badly and if I make a small mistake it's such a big punishment and an advantage to the opposing mid laner.

So I'm behind CS because I can't overcommit for CSing because I'll get harrased to the depths of hell, I have to rely on my jungler pre-6 just so I can get even with the guy I'm going against, also I have to expect the guy I'm going against to also get help from their jungler so that's another problem I have to keep in mind that I have exactly no escape but flash when their jungler comes to gank when I'm vulnerable.

Am I missing something with Talon now? Or do I just completely suck as him? Like there is nothing I can do in laning phase anymore like I use to. Even the Champions I was confident to go against dominate me in lane now, like: Ahri , Katarina , Leblanc , Syndra , Zed all of these Champions and mostly all mid laners, but most unplayed mages I get a hard time going against.

Out of all the Assassins I play Talon is the only one I get a really hard time in laning phase, and it gets worse when I'm behind in mid-game where all the teamfights and map objectives happen. I don't know, are there any good Talon players out there that don't feel like this at all? Maybe you can tell me a thing or two, because I really just don't know why I suck so bad as Talon now.

20 Comments

UberAffe2 votes

Assassins are supposed to have shitty laning phases, until they can all in

Fitz n The Fool2 votes

{quoted}

Assassins are supposed to have shitty laning phases, until they can all in

Zed

redniwediS2 votes

{quoted}

supposed to

TwoD1 votes

Kassadin Zed Ahri Leblanc Katarina all have pretty good laning phases in different ways dude.

SouL1ess1 votes

Except that if they have shitty laning phases they don't do anything for the rest of the game.

By your logic they are the worse kinds of ADCs, can't even do sustained damage and their potential gets countered by proper coordination.

redniwediS1 votes

I would suggest trying him top lane. While he's not fantastic against the tanky bruiser types up there, there are more than a few ranged squishies up there lately. Could be a nice change for you.

TwoD1 votes

But that probably won't be to good for my team though, since Talon really isn't the best at split-pushing and dueling.

redniwediS1 votes

Many top laners don't duel or split push. You just farm up wait for team fights, where you can pick people off and do regular assassin stuff. Besides, if I can split push as Garen with no offense outside of a brutalizer I think Talon can do it. =P

ccseancc1431 votes

Talon is a great dueler and split pusher. Talons Q can hit towers. If you AA cancel with your Q and use youmous you shred towers. Also Talon is very slippery due to his ult giving him stealth. Talons dueling potential under tower is ass compared to Zed but, he pushes towers faster than Zed due to his Q being able to hit towers.

Franco Sanchez1 votes

All of the champs that you mentioned there have a trait in common... High mobility. When they removed Talon's silence, you can't pin them down the way you could before. It also slanted the lane heavily in favor of Katarina as you have no means of escape/interrupt for her ult. If she gets any kind of lead on you, you can expect to be eating a lot of damage from her ult because you can't break it with yours.

I think Talon is fine though. His damage is still there, but your opponents have an opportunity to actually respond before getting blown up. It's really the only difference.

TwoD1 votes

And definitely not a simple difference...if you'd think so, you're a fool lol.

Franco Sanchez1 votes

His damage was untouched... Literally the only difference for Talon is rather than having a very brief silence, he now has an extremely brief slow.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

I got dumpstered by a Talon top. Maybe stop trying to play him mid? That seemed to help the guy in my game.

TwoD1 votes

Talon versus..?

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

A somewhat inexperienced Maokai. I imagine the surprise factor was doing a lot for him (I was adc, my duo partner was Mao top, but he isn't a Maokai main), but he carried the game quite effectively.

ccseancc1431 votes

I play Talon alot and you shouldn't be getting dumpstered. Talon's lane is ass but, you just have to properly time your engages. ex. If Zed uses shadow to farm, engage, if Katarina throws dagger and misses you engage. Don't even bother with Kassadin you fuck him up in lane. ALSO a very important thing about Talon in lane is controlling the amount of minion damage you take in trades and how hard you push the lane since your only form of ranged harass is aoe, more than likely your going to be blinking to them in their wave so time it when you can minimize minion damage. If you want to beat Leblanc you just have to force her to tower. You push harder than her so just keep pushing and she will have to waste her abilities on wave clearing instead of harassing. The new Ahri screw Talon up really hard though, even if you wait for her to throw her Q she gets the ms buff so she will just runaway.

TwoD1 votes

Sounds easier said than done for most part, but I don't disagree with you.

ccseancc1431 votes

Talon is just that kinda champ. HE looks easy to play but, he has one of the more dangerous play styles compared to alot of other champs. He doesn't really have any safety in his kit. His kit is built to be almost fully offensive. Unlike other assassins who have some sort of safety in their kit. Akali-shroud, Zed-Shadow, Katarina-Shunpo, Leblenc-Distortion, Kassadin-ult. Talon CAN escape a gank with his E but, its 10x harder then Shunpoing to a ward or placing a shadow. Also you can burn ult but, you lose alot of kill pressure.

forist1 votes

What item do you start with? item 2041 is recommended, but whenever I play talon I always startitem 1036 and 3 item 2009 . I think the main idea is to focus on farming until 6. You can counter harass the enemy laner with w or w,aa,q combos, but never use your e to trade unless you are certain you have kill potential. Half the time I use talon's e is to simply dodge the other laner's harass by blinking to a minion. It's just too risky to use e aggressively pre level 6 without jungle support. Other than that, I would say just wait for them to use their skills and then capitalize on any missed skillshots. Talon just can't out-trade anyone pre 6, because his kit is so ult reliant and lacks synergy with his passive. Other champs will just flat out-trade you if they land the same amount of skills as you.

FooDang1 votes

E onto a minion is always an option followed by a rake...I use that to dodge heavy hitting skillshots, drop some harass, and walk away or AA Q if im close enough...you gotta make sure you punish them with rake when they come in and harass you or you will have a tough lane phase...

Edit: Diana is the only champ i've really had a problem with, ask for JG to assist when going against a Diana...

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