Make Giant's Belt Build out of 2x Ruby Crystals

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well we are specifically discussing tanks in this thread so ~ 4000-4500 HP with 300 armor is pretty reasonable for our discussion.

Wrong on both the accounts of this argument and this discussion as a whole. The thread is discussing allowing Ruby Crystal to build Giant's Belt, which CynicalGiant already pointed out would just get any defensive players to start off by rushing RC and building their defenses from there. Our specific discussion is that True Damage is never the core of a champion's damage output. It's always an addition that deals less than their main damage type, either Magic or Physical. Yes, you can pull a fully built Tank Mundo out of your ass, tell me that he'll take more True than Physical damage, and there's a chance you'll be right, but that does not negate the fact that most of Vayne's damage is physical.

most end game vayne builds will probably come close though. either way this will only effect the duration of the tanks life not the ratio of physical to true damage.

Actually, yes it will. Because every stat except for AS is going to affect the actual physical damage of her attacks. If she's critting more often, more physical damage. If she has more AD, more physical damage. If she has more ArPen, more physical damage.

Vayne needs +212% AS (including her per-level AS at level 18) in order to hit the 2.5 AS cap. Most end-game Vayne builds involve two AS items (three if you count boots): Blade of the Ruined King and Statikk Shiv, which total +80% AS (105%). Maybe Phantom Dancers instead of Shiv for +90% AS (115%).

right, i was leaving those out because it just complicates things. like alistar or malphite's abilities vs. vaynes. (hint alistar's ult reduced 80% of all non-true damage) besides with all her true damage she doesn't need physical damage output.

Congratulations, you've named another specific champion who will take more True than Physical damage from Vayne. That doesn't change the fact that the enemy team isn't Cho'gath, Mundo, Alistar, Malphite and Rammus.

what about them? we are discussing tank vs. vayne, nothing more. of course if vayne ignores the tank they will just cc her but that's not the point. if vayne is successfully ignoring the tank then the tank has already failed at his job.

No, we are not discussing Tank vs Vayne. We are discussing the fact that Vayne's True damage is a supplement to her damage output, rather than the core of it. You can not just use the handful of champions who usually naturally build to 300-400 Armor as a cover-up for the fact that Vayne has to deal with 4 other targets who likely have 70-150 Armor instead.

she was already killing then in 6.5 seconds, she doesn't really need those other things. but ok she uses tumble that adds 50% of one AA or ~60 physical damage. crit can be hard to account for properly but if she gets a crit on one AA that adds another ~100 physical damage condemn adds more but maxes at 370 and final hour adds 70ad to each AA.

That's not accounting for them, that's saying what they do.

If Vayne is killing a target in 6.5 seconds, at an AS of 2.5, that means she has to attack them 17 times without any other part of her kit.

That means she got 5 procs of her W, or 300+40% of the target's max HP.

Using your target tank who has over 4000 HP, this would mean that more than 50% of her DPS was Physical damage, because 300 is less than 10% if they have more than 3000 HP.

so if she unleashes her entire kit to maximize her physical damage (for some reason) and our tank uses no damage mitigation abilities (for some reason) she gets ~500 physical damage off the top due to her abilities then has to AA for the rest her AD is now ~370 and our effective armor is ~ 200 for a damage reduction of 66% that means that our tank will die in 5.4 seconds (+ animation time for her abilities) with 2180 physical damage and 1820 true damage.

congratulations in nearly the most absurd scenario possible you barely gave vayne more physical damage than true damage. you can talk about crits more but if i want to sway this back toward true damage i just have to use my tanks damage mitigation ability (i can think of several).

Congratulations, you are officially not actually paying attention to what you are debating. In the most absolutely ludicrous scenario, Vayne's True Damage outpaces her Physical damage after resistances.

only true in the extreme and then it's still close.

Do your equations against an enemy Marksman, then tell me that Vayne's damage is primarily True damage.

that's what this whole thread is about.

No, this thread is not about Vayne making poor choices. It's about why Ruby Crystal doesn't build into Giant's Belt. When you brought up True Damage, I pointed out that True Damage is never the center of a champion's damage output, it will always be surpassed by their potential physical or magic damage.

You list a bunch of champions who have True Damage without really understanding the argument, and then "prove" me wrong by using the most ridiculous Vayne scenario I've seen in a forum argument since we switched from old forums to the Boards. I didn't ask for a skewed perspective of a perfectly ideal scenario with none of the variables that could negate it involved.

not really

Building for the AS cap on Vayne would take at least 4 items devoted to AS, with or without her boots. You show me a build like that, one that doesn't severely cripple her damage output compared to a good Vayne build, and I'll reconsider that statement.

only adds a small amount to her physical damage.

Every 2 seconds, plus it makes chasing easier. In case you forgot, enemy champions usually run away when being shot, making it impossible to perfectly utilize AS in the majority of real scenarios.