Warrior Enchantment - A Modern Day Relic

Vicimus·Feb 25, 2016·2 votes·840 views

AD junglers have always been a troublesome aspect of the game. However in the current meta, they're practically unviable.

Many AD junglers that used to build the AD jungle items like Vi, J4, Hecarim, Skarner have just fallen out of the meta or have to go the Cinderhulk path because the Warrior enchantment just straight up sucks. It's an over efficient item that just doesn't fit today's meta. A few seasons ago efficiency would be super important, but these days it's more about the special effects.

Let's take a look at the jungle items: Cinderhulk - Sunfire effect, bonus HP, % bonus hp, champions get tanky quite early. Runic Echoes - Ludens effect, bonus AP, crazy amount of % movespeed, AND mana regen + increased on the luden's effect vs monsters. Devourer - Sated effect, bonus AS, and on-hit magic damage. Warrior - Bonus AD, and 10% CDR.

The warrior enchantment costs 1575 gold, building out of the 1100g Caulfields. You go from 20 bonus AD to 60 bonus AD for 475 gold. The strength of this item is frontloaded into the last 475 gold but other items get decent efficiency as they acquire components. This is crazy efficient but unfortunately jsut doesn't fit the current jungler meta. Runic Echoes allows champions like Nidalee and Rumble to fast clear the jungle, move fast, AND have strong exp leads. Cinderhulk provides good lategame scaling for tanks via %hp bonus and also allows them to clear a bit better. Sated Devourer is a crazy powerspike and when combined with another offensive item, you have enough DPS to effectively contribute to fights.

The Warrior enchantment gives good AD upon completion, but the clear for these junglers lack sustain and speed before getting there. And even upon completion, it just doesn't seem as satisfying as say Runic Echoes or Cinderhulk or getting Sated on Devourer.

Honestly, I understand, it's a hard item to balance because it reintroduces viability to several AD bruisers/fighters. There has been issue with the Spirit of the Elder Lizard being OP, but that was because laners starting abusing it. In the current state, jungle items seem quite strong, yet in the position where laners would not buy them unless they provided significant effects not available anywhere else.

Can we please get some discussion going regarding this item, it could definitely use some love right now considering how balanced + strong AP and Tank jungle items are right now.

A possible suggestion was to introduce sheen as a component to warrior, along with a longsword, the AD could be nerfed as justification and some sort of Runic Echos effect could be added to the sheen effect if there needed to be a bit more of an edge towards the jungle.

Thanks for reading and good luck on the rift! :)

9 Comments

ModWulf HelhammerFeb 25, 20161 votes

The thing is that many (if not all) junglers that can go warrior effectively just want a stat stick. They have the sustain or clear speed or power (of the level the other enchants provide) and all they need is the raw stats to power them up.

The reason why junglers who used to go warrior don't because it's bad, it's more so because cinderhulk (in particular this one) provides more safety, and with all the juggernaut items, they are able to go mostly tank and still get good damage off

VicimusFeb 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The thing is that many (if not all) junglers that can go warrior effectively just want a stat stick. They have the sustain or clear speed or power (of the level the other enchants provide) and all they need is the raw stats to power them up.

The reason why junglers who used to go warrior don't because it's bad, it's more so because cinderhulk (in particular this one) provides more safety, and with all the juggernaut items, they are able to go mostly tank and still get good damage off

A lot of AP junglers and Tanks also have sustain and clear speed but they get shiny items that help them even more on top of the stats they already buy from the item.

Exactly, Cinderhulk is just better because it's the safer option, there's no reason to build these champions as AD because the risks outweigh the rewards and that's because the item just doesn't cater to what these champions really need. When we take a look at champions like J4, Hecarim, Vi, they want heavy frontloaded burst. Bonus AD helps a ton, sure, but it isnt nearly enough burst as say a Runic Echo's proc or a sheen proc.

ModWulf HelhammerFeb 25, 20161 votes

That was actually supposed to say "don't go is not because it's bad"...

CherysseFeb 25, 20161 votes

It is the same as I stated before, it benefits AD burst oriented champs or champs like Kindred that can attack from range, but for fighter champs like or others is not viable because they will get punished HARD because of it, it needs to add +40 AD and have an unique survivability passive fot it to be more holistic, because right now it feels like AD assasin junglers can abuse it, while others suffer due to it.

If anyone is interested you can check my item, it is for AP bruisers. can you see my custom item? I've made an icon for it! http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/buOIBEzA-the-phoenixs-talon-icon-made-by-me-3

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/pastebin_data/qd31zm/ThePhoenixTalon.jpg

VicimusFeb 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It is the same as I stated before, it benefits AD burst oriented champs or champs like that can attack from range, but for fighter champs like or others is not viable because they will get punished HARD because of it, it needs to add +40 AD and have an unique survivability passive fot it to be more holistic, because right now it feels like AD assasin junglers can abuse it, while others suffer due to it.

If anyone is interested you can check my item, it is for AP bruisers. can you see my custom item? I've made an icon for it! http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/buOIBEzA-the-phoenixs-talon-icon-made-by-me-3

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/pastebin_data/qd31zm/ThePhoenixTalon.jpg

There are not that many AD junglers that would abuse this item. Currently, only champions like Lee Sin and Kindred build this item. Lee because he will be useless earlygame with Cinder and Kindred because Devourer is horrible on ranged champions.

The 40 AD is great, I don't mind that. It's the fact that it's frontloaded onto a 475g pick up, the early game is just horrendous for these champions.

Regarding your item, it seems like it's trying to do a lot of stuff at once. Sheen proc, armor, health, mana, CDR, penetration. There's a TON going on there and the combine cost just seems too low for it. It would also be a pain to balance as there's just so much stuff. A lot of champions would use that. But with runic echos + frozen fist, riot can effectively target each item's weaknesses and strengths and tweak them as necessary. More stats = harder to balance (see tri force).

CherysseFeb 25, 20161 votes

I feel that warrior should share traits with , its build pattern is almost the same and the Jungle items have an inner Life Steal passive that could justify these changes, to the point where it could fit every AD champ on the game due to the global life steal added to physical damage.
About my item: I removed the armor, added a Ruby Crystal and increased the cost to 3300. Also I've made it to specifically not proc Thunderlord or Ludens, due to certain champs (cough cough) abusing this mechanic. It also scales with base AD and with HP, things that are not included in most of the ranged champs core build. But I guess it could be a thing on , mainly because toplane Gnar with Grasp is becoming a thing on high Elo, and I had to loose lane 3 times against him and it is not easy. I feel it is just about releasing the item in the PBE and doing tweaks to it until it is balanced properly, it is always up to Riot anyways.

VicimusFeb 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I feel that warrior should share traits with , its build pattern is almost the same and the Jungle items have an inner Life Steal passive that could justify these changes, to the point where it could fit every AD champ on the game due to the global life steal added to physical damage.

About my item: I removed the armor, added a Ruby Crystal and increased the cost to 3300. Also I've made it to specifically not proc Thunderlord or Ludens, due to certain champs (cough cough) abusing this mechanic. It also scales with base AD and with HP, things that are not included in most of the ranged champs core build. But I guess it could be a thing on , mainly because toplane Gnar with Grasp is becoming a thing on high Elo, and I had to loose lane 3 times against him and it is not easy. I feel it is just about releasing the item in the PBE and doing tweaks to it until it is balanced properly, it is always up to Riot anyways.

I think that Death's Dance's effect would be nice, perhaps changing the life steal on monsters to actual lifesteal would be kind of an interesting change. Another option which has been suggested before is a mini black cleaver. Remove the HP, and give everything else and that would be quite solid of an AD item and actually provide something meaningful instead of just flat AD and CDR.

*Your item is really cool, but what's the benefit of buying that over say a frozen fist? A lot of tanks would just straight up prefer the CDR and the slow + armor - relying on other items for damage/tankiness like abyssal/roa. %max health dmg is great and all but look at the penetration you build on tanks, it's quite minimal and %dmg is meant to to deal dmg to other tanky enemies, not necessarily squishies.

CherysseFeb 25, 20161 votes

I've seen it, but I mean, making it a mini BCleaver is too much early/late game power, and is once again oriented to assasins/burst. It would be better for it to grant sustain/survivability. Both things can be achieved by adding the 2 sides of into Warrior: 10% damage reduced and is set to the bleed effect. 10% "globlal life steal" for physical damage.
Yeah I modified the item in the LAN server board for a more viable version, it deals damage based on your own life now, it has less AP (40) and more HP (500), why would you prefer this? because it grants actual HP, it improves your damage a lot and grants a lot of utility, and doesn't deal physical damage like IBG does. Besides it is a Targon Thematic item, which is kinda crazy but it seems that there is an event about it now xD

Variks the LoyalFeb 25, 20161 votes

I like how the jungle items are 'alternatives' to real items, and have their effects/passives on top of something else. A replacement for the Warrior enchant should reflect that, too.

I would think a Hydra would be a cool one, with AoE cleaving to help clear the jungle, but then the bruisers would lose access to Titanic Hydra, which they may like.

Death's Dance may end up being a good one, reducing damage taken from monsters and healing all physical damage dealt to them.

Bilgewater Cutlass could be a good one. Offer bonus damage that benefits from Life Steal VS monsters, with a slowing active that helps them chase down enemies early game.