Should Yasuo's Wind Wall block Taliyah's rock wall

Bravoth · 2017-02-13T17:34:30.284Z

According to leagues description of yasuo's wind wall it "Creates a moving wall that blocks enemy projectiles" with the keyword being projectiles the definition of a projectile is an object propelled through the air. According to Taliyah's ult description it "creates a wall" and from the animation it just elevates part of the ground like with her seismic shove(w) at no point is the rock/ground that taliyah uses for either ability disconnected from the earth along with that since seismic shove is not blocked by the wind wall neither should Taliyah's rock wall since it follows the same principle but just on a larger scale. So I would prefer if you do one of three things listed from easiest to hardest 1) change the description of weaver's wall or wind wall, 2) make yasuo's wall block seismic shove or 3) do not let wind wall stop weaver's wall. Now if I am wrong someone please tell me but I think it's reasonable to ask for riot to either be consistent in its description, treatment or animation of abilities and what I mean by that last one is when the animation for one ability that is not blocked is part of the ground erupts forward and the animation for an ability on the same champ that is blocked though is part of the ground erupts forward then the next part closest to it erupts forward rinse and repeat then since one is just the other on a larger scale it shouldn't be blocked since fundamentally it is still the same animation.

BravothFeb 13, 20171 votes

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QuephaFeb 13, 20171 votes

{quoted}

That is exactly what part of my original post covered which is the actual animation for the w(seismic shove) and the ult(weavers wall). W is not blocked but the ULT is even though the ult's animation is just W on a bigger scale so combine the fact that the description doesn't match up since the animation also doesn't match up that is what the problem is and that is what I stated in this thread.

Why would seismic shove be blocked by wind wall under any interpretation of the ability? It is clearly a delayed AoE in an area which causes a knockback on targets, that's not a projectile. I don't even understand where you would get the idea that her ult is the same as her W but on a bigger scale.

BravothFeb 13, 20172 votes

w makes one rock pop up and knock someone in a direction while ult makes a bunch of rocks pop up in a straight line knocking people in a direction but it just sticks around for a little bit unlike w .

No flash no lifeFeb 13, 20173 votes

{quoted}

When people play competitive games they want mechanical consistency over flavor consistency.

I agree with that, under the condition that mechanical consistency has to match flavor consistency.

When we play games, we don't look at the code. We aren't programmers (yes I know it doesn't take that much knowledge to understand how code works but that's not the point), we're just ppl playing the game. We understand what the skill does by looking and analyzing the description, not digging into the interaction of the coding. Saying that's not how the code works does not justify the misleading descriptions.

If you're competitive or serious enough, yes you'd look into those, but I'd like to bring our attention to the fact that this game being competitive is nothing but a personal opinion, and competitive players are a small minority of the player base.

QuephaFeb 13, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=No flash no life,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8jR79dEX,comment-id=000200000000000000000002,timestamp=2017-02-13T20:02:13.288+0000)

I agree with that, under the condition that mechanical consistency has to match flavor consistency.

So you don't agree in the slightest.

Not everyone is professional but everyone who plays ranked is playing competitively. Everyone seriously playing ranked understands that the graphic of stone rising out of the ground is just a graphic to look pretty and show what the hitbox is. People who play chess do not complain about a horse somehow possessing the strength to destroy a castle tower.

BravothFeb 13, 20173 votes

So you are saying we can't rely on graphics for anything but hitbox fine lets go with that then that makes it were the only way find out information about the ability you are dealing with is by looking at the description for champion abilities and using that to figure out/guess how they interact with other abilities because there is no way you are quickly pulling up the source code for league and quickly reviewing all the info on a champs ability in under 30 seconds thereby making it necessary to have accurate descriptions.

QuephaFeb 13, 20171 votes

I knew instantly by looking at Taliyah's W and R that her W would not be affected by Yasuo's wind wall and her ult would. I have never seen LoL's source code yet I understood how wind wall should interact with it.

BravothFeb 13, 20172 votes

So if I am understanding you correctly you are basically saying that my idea of just adding a few words to clearly state the properties of an ability in the description (which you can see by hovering over abilities in game) won't work. That instead players should do like you and rely on instantly knowing all the properties of an ability when they see it used during a match and/or outside of a match if they want to know it's properties they should just look at the source code of the game (which you stated you have never seen) and go through who knows how many lines of code to find out what properties this one ability for this one champ has and if your two methods don't work for them then they are just out of luck?

QuephaFeb 13, 20171 votes

{quoted}

So if I am understanding you correctly you are basically saying that my idea of just adding a few words to clearly state the properties of an ability in the description (which you can see by hovering over abilities in game) won't work.

It seems like unnecessary effort towards a non-problem.

BravothFeb 13, 20171 votes

Are you saying that it is not a problem if the only legitimate source of information 67 million people have is inaccurate even if it's just about one ability and that adding a few words to an abilities description is too much work to fix that problem(probably 1-2 hours of work if things are disorganized but if they already have a well prepared system in place will only take 15 minutes) .

QuephaFeb 13, 20171 votes

It's a problem if a lot of people are confused. Not a lot of people are confused.

BravothFeb 13, 20171 votes

So instead of implementing a simple fix before something escalates into a problem they should wait until it is a serious problem even if they have enough free time to browse these boards for a bit of busy work that will have a positive effect.

AMYS GRAVEFeb 13, 20173 votes

Everyone seriously playing ranked understands that the graphic of stone rising out of the ground is just a graphic to look pretty and show what the hitbox is.

Tal ult is a series of trundle pillars. There is nothing moving that would indicate it is a projectile, it is fixed terrain creation. Windwall doesn't block trundle pillars so why does it block Tal wall?

AMYS GRAVEFeb 13, 20172 votes

They want to know an ability will be blocked by wind wall because the ability possesses the properties that make it blocked by the wind wall.

Circular definitions are true by definition.

QuephaFeb 13, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Circular definitions are true by definition.

I may have used the phrase "wind wall" twice but that was not circular reasoning. Wind wall blocks abilities with certain properties: position and direction. it's very consistent and people watch it happen every time Yasuo is in a game. There is a new ability. It has position and direction. Given previous observations of how Yasuo's wind wall works, one should come to the conclusion that it is likely this new ability will be blocked by Yasuo's wind wall. Lo and behold, knowledge of the scientific process is rewarded yet again with the ability to predict the future.

AMYS GRAVEFeb 14, 20172 votes

Wind wall blocks abilities with certain properties: position and direction

No, braum's shield blocks projectiles. Yasuo's ult destroys non-unit projectiles. How braum interacts with Ashe arrow (for instance) is very different from how yasuo interacts with it. There is a difference between blocked and destroyed.

Also your definition fails to account for syndra toss, ekko parallel convergence, xerath ult, to name a few.

Your definition also fails to account for unit behaviour such as jinx chompers, olaf axe, zed shadow, etc... which are blocked by windwall but not destroyed.

Your definition also fails to account for champions who are always allowed through windwall.

And to the topic of this thread tal ult has a position, with each piece coming straight up from the ground, but no direction as each element of the wall goes nowhere. It behaves like a series of trundle pillars.

QuephaFeb 14, 20171 votes

You list a bunch of delayed AoEs and act like they are projectiles, stop being silly.

AMYS GRAVEFeb 14, 20172 votes

At least try to address my post, or at the very least acknowledge the difference between blocked and destroyed.

All of the abilities i listed have both a position and direction, and I've pointed out why that definition is silly.

It also doesn't explain why Lee Sin's cripple (an instant AOE around him that goes nowhere) is destroyed by windwall.

Also you want delayed AOEs then look at Ziggs ult which is conditionally destroyed by windwall.

QuephaFeb 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

At least try to address my post, or at the very least acknowledge the difference between blocked and destroyed.

No, you were being pedantic by complaining about that irrelevant distinction.

All of the abilities i listed have both a position and direction

syndra toss, ekko parallel convergence, xerath ult all do not have a direction associated with them. They are all delayed AoEs on a fixed timer that never changes, mechanically each cast of those abilities is identical to a cast of Karthus Q.

AMYS GRAVEFeb 14, 20173 votes

To start with you didn't even try to adress half my post. What makes Ziggs ult different from Xerath ult? Why is Lee Sin's cripple blocked?

No, you were being pedantic by pointing out that distinction.

It is impossible to acuratly define projectile without that distinction.

syndra toss, ekko parallel convergence, xerath ult all do not have a direction associated with them. They are all delayed AoEs on a fixed timer that never changes, mechanically each cast of those abilities is identical to a cast of Karthus Q.

Syndra picks up a ball from that units location and throws it to a target location. It has both position and direction. Same for my other examples and they all fit your definition.

Your definition is faulty.

Ulquiorra995Feb 14, 20173 votes

Then what does an ability need to have to be considered a projectile? Nami and Gragas, for example, both have abilities which always land after a set amount of time, same as Syndra's W or Ekko's W. Those abilities have a visible projectile which travels in an arc from where they were cast... same as Syndra's W or Ekko's W. And those abilities are blocked by Wind Wall. So what is it that makes them different? Why is one considered a projectile and other isn't?

Should Yasuo's Wind Wall block Taliyah's rock wall

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