Talon's laning phase in 5.23

Undying Fool··4 votes·1,196 views

Since the patch came in and removed crystalline flask, talon's early laning phase became really hard to be on a lead or catch up to your opponent in the mid lane. His early laning phase before the patch is already pretty hard that you needed to play safe to cs and also wait until lv 3 to actually try and kill somebody. Now, with the removal of crystalline flask talon can not sustain anymore in the lane. it becomes really hard if also your opponent is someone with poke abilities. Also talon cannot survive with a doran's blade and one potion, he will get demolish by champions like zed , ahri, anivia, veigar and most of the champions in the mid lane. He can also go for a long sword and the refillable potion but still it will not help talon that much in the early laning phase because to cs with talon fighting a mid/long range champ he needs to use his rake that will eventually deplete his mana causing the player to go back just to regenerate mana back at the store more often causing the player miss the minions. I do not even know the reason why you guys took out crystalline flask and the mana potion. if you guys have a reasonable explanation for it. I will gladly try to understand it but please help talon out because i really love talon and i hate to see that i cannot play him because it is so hard to use him in the early game. You can only play him normally again after you leveled up to level 10 and at least have 1 complete item but even if you are lv 10 and have at least one item it will not matter because the champion you are laning against will be more powerful than you.

thank you for reading this and please reply thank you!!!!

26 Comments

Ionian2 votes

item 2033 ?

Pierce The Veal2 votes

[{quoted}](name=If Ahri Was Real,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8gjvd7Nt,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-11-27T00:56:57.284+0000)

item 2033 ?

I've increasingly noticed that that item is a noib trap. It really doesn't benefit your laning phase that much because you can't get any pots with it.

Ionian2 votes

I thought so too, I was like "wow this is just a gutted flask that costs way too much". But then I tried it out, and that extra damage per auto actually destroys the enemy laner. Like, it's actually a better offensive item than dorans ring for the early game. And considering Talon uses a lot of mana, I guess it's also a better offensive item than longsword. If you keep it in your inventory until you have 4-5 full items, and regularly use charges, it's very efficient. Just don't expect it to be the old flask in terms of hp sustain.

Undying Fool2 votes

This item's value doesnt equal to the usefulness of the item.

Ionian2 votes

Oh it does.

Undying Fool1 votes

no it doesnt. sure you deal a little bit more damage but isnt it more beneficial if you can stay in lane with a flask and 3 pots.

MohawkBird2 votes

[deleted]

Undying Fool1 votes

With longsword 3, yes you can damage your opponent even more but those who knows the weakness of talon, they will avoid your rake and try to poke you a lot and i mean so much. your mana and health bar will deplete faster than your opponent.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Undying Fool,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8gjvd7Nt,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-11-27T01:26:37.259+0000)

With longsword 3, yes you can damage your opponent even more but those who knows the weakness of talon, they will avoid your rake and try to poke you a lot and i mean so much. your mana and health bar will deplete faster than your opponent.

Or you just use it to last hit better? And then build it into what you want later?

I'm finding starting with an item that builds into an item you want is much better than starting potion bottle/ doran's ring/blade/shield/cull this season.

Undying Fool1 votes

you can't cs normally when you fight against a poke champion as talon. Talon's relies too much with his rake during early game. you can buy corrupt potion but in the past you can have 3 pots and a flask but now when you buy the corrupt potion you will only go to your lane with just that. corrupt potion value doesnt equal to the usefulness of it.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Undying Fool,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8gjvd7Nt,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-27T01:56:07.475+0000)

you can't cs normally when you fight against a poke champion as talon. Talon's relies too much with his rake during early game. you can buy corrupt potion but in the past you can have 3 pots and a flask but now when you buy the corrupt potion you will only go to your lane with just that. corrupt potion value doesnt equal to the usefulness of it.

Yeah pretty much. That's why longsword 3 pots works better.

what you deserve1 votes

play him as an adc

Fowus1 votes

that's dumb

Fowus1 votes

wont work if the support is decent

what you deserve1 votes

oh, it can. because my kat support game is strong

Undying Fool1 votes

That's not enough evidence that says that it will work everytime. talon works better if he is a a top or mid laner

what you deserve1 votes

my friend and i do this all the time and we usually win. the meta isn't really an important guideline

Undying Fool1 votes

duo? then you guys might have a great synergy with each other but when you are solo queue then i suggest pick an actual marksman for adc.

Nahui1 votes

That's why you start long sword 3 pots and don't spam spells like you normally should've been. Rake to trade, else just start raking at 5. Mana shouldn't be that much of an issue if you don't rake because it's off CD.

Vesarixx1 votes

Have you tried item 1006x2item 2010x5? I've seen a few people do this sort of thing as an alternative to flask, or something similar with item 1004. Even if they don't build into anything both items have a high sell back rate.

Fowus1 votes

I take long sword + 3 pots now and just as long as you dont spam rake, you shouldn't have mana problems

Undying Fool1 votes

Talon relies too much on his rake. that's the only thing that he can use to make poke champions to be careful. Sure, you can stay in lane longer with 3 pots but still talon will still lack the mana to continue trading/cs-ing resulting him to go back to base.

ZLbSwAR23I1 votes

I'm sorry OP, but your thread doesn't fit the theme of "Yasuo is OP, please nerf". You're not going to get much attention.

As someone who mained Talon, he's certainly so much harder. He just doesn't have what he needs now. Riot say they want to do a rework with him but he's extremely far down on the list. I don't want him reworked, just buffed significantly. Shame, he won't get either for a long time.

Undying Fool1 votes

Talon does not need a reworked update. His kit perfectly suit him and gives you a high risk and high reward system. If you dont kill your target then you are screwed. What he needs is something that will make him sustain longer. Without the crystalline flask, you need to be take extra precautions when to cs or trade with your opponent.

This is really a pretty bad time for talon mains like us.

ZLbSwAR23I1 votes

Agreed.

I think either he needs additional sustain, or he needs mana costs reduced. Perhaps reducing the cost of his W? With the removal of flask and mana potions, you could go as far as halving it and it would be justified.

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