Gunblade on jax

paperbIade··3 votes·1,086 views

Is it good or something else?

21 Comments

vIbvdOwbko3 votes

It's definitely not the worst item you can buy but I personally prefer a BoRK because of its attack speed and on-hit damage.

I feel that Jax's AP scalings aren't high enough for you to build AP over attack speed. Attack lets him get the third hit on his ult faster as well as synergize with his passive to smash down towers/trade very nicely.

ABlueQuaker1 votes

60% AP Ratio on Q, 60% AP Ratio on W, 70% AP Ratio on R Passive.

Not to mention his R Active that grants MR equal to 20/35/50 + 20% of his AP.

A lot of dedicated Mages don't even have AP Ratios that high.

EDIT: Total AP from Trinity Force (30 AP) + Gunblade (80 AP) + Rageblade (40 AP) = 150 (206 if you include Rageblade's Passive). Total MR from Rank 3 Ultimate Active = 50 + 30 (41.2) = 80 (91.2).

vIbvdOwbko3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Red Arrow,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8XTvF6lY,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-04-19T06:36:31.456+0000)

60% AP Ratio on Q, 60% AP Ratio on W, 70% AP Ratio on R Passive.

Not to mention his R Active that grants MR equal to 20/35/50 + 20% of his AP.

A lot of dedicated Mages don't even have AP Ratios that high.

EDIT: Total AP from Trinity Force (30 AP) + Gunblade (80 AP) + Rageblade (40 AP) = 150 (206 if you include Rageblade's Passive). Total MR from Rank 3 Ultimate Active = 50 + 30 (41.2) = 80 (91.2).

Listing out AP ratios is usually an invalid argument. I can say Nunu has 100% AP ratio on his E and 250% on his ultimate. Does that justify building AP on him? No it doesn't.

Mages deal damage in an AoE from more than half a screen away. Meanwhile Jax has to leap into melee range. Okay you built rageblade Hextech. That's like 144 extra damage combined on your Q + W. Then you somehow stick on long enough without getting oneshot to land ur third auto. Your ult third hit does 84 extra damage. Except you won't stick on long enough. You have no sticking power/ability to deal damage in any scenario except a 1v1. And there aren't going to be many 1v1's by the time you have hextech and rageblade.

Okay imagine you build gunblade and rageblade. If you build anymore damage than this, then you're useless and squishy unless the game is snowballed extremely hard. So assume these are your only damage items.

You suffer during early game because building these items focuses damage on spells. You can't trade as effectively as a simple Sheen would get you. The spell cooldowns are long and you don't have enough AP early on for the spell damage to be worth it over a BoRK or a Tri.

Maybe mid game the 120 AP will increase your damage but by that point it's mid game and you should be going tank and you can't build anymore damage items unless you like getting oneshot every fight. Your AP damage falls off while a BoRK would've scaled in damage.

Your only sticking ability is Hextech active. No Bork or Phage means Jax is a lot easier to peel off and kill.

You can't take towers as quickly since you have less attack speed, less AD, and you built AP. No sheen proc either.

Building one of these two suboptimal items is okay I guess if you're ahead but straight up rushing both of them is ridiculous. Rageblade's upfront stats are not worth investing 2600 gold into. Gunblade is costly and wastes gold on spellvamp and AP that won't benefit you.

Oh yeah that 80 Mr will definitely make you invincible. Still not worth it in the end. The armor and MR from your ult just aren't good enough to keep you alive. Void staff and Last whisper shred through it easily. What you need is some HP from tank items and much higher values of resistances from them.

ABlueQuaker1 votes

Well actually, I get Trinity Force first on Jax. Rageblade is a situational item (6th item) (on the rare occasion I actually build it which is usually only in a Normal game that I'm dominating). Gunblade would be my third item after randuin's/frozen heart (4th if you include boots). Gunblade actually grants more AD than BotRK contrary to what you said in your 3rd last paragraph.

For the most part, building a Gunblade and Rageblade wouldn't be deviating from a standard bruiser build in the first place and I don't disagree that they're situational items. I'm just saying that his AP Ratios aren't anything to scoff at.

For a Diamond player, I question your logic considering half of your argument is based off a build order that you've fabricated in your head.

Seriously, look at my match history. My build path on Attack Speed-reliant Bruisers is consistently Doran's Blade x2 --> Phage --> Sheen --> Trinity Force --> Mercury's Treads --> Frozen Heart --> Spirit Visage --> BotRK/Hydra --> Randuins/Thornmail/Maw/Banshee's.

The only thing I'm suggesting is switching BotRK/Hydra for Gunblade and your Situational (6th) item for Rageblade - and only situationally.

vIbvdOwbko1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Red Arrow,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8XTvF6lY,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2015-04-19T08:10:04.254+0000)

Well actually, I get Trinity Force first on Jax. Rageblade is a situational item (6th item) (on the rare occasion I actually build it which is usually only in a Normal game that I'm dominating). Gunblade would be my third item after randuin's/frozen heart (4th if you include boots). Gunblade actually grants more AD than BotRK contrary to what you said in your 3rd last paragraph.

For the most part, building a Gunblade and Rageblade wouldn't be deviating from a standard bruiser build in the first place and I don't disagree that they're situational items. I'm just saying that his AP Ratios aren't anything to scoff at.

For a Diamond player, I question your logic considering half of your argument is based off a build order that you've fabricated in your head.

Seriously, look at my match history. My build path on Attack Speed-reliant Bruisers is consistently Doran's Blade x2 --> Phage --> Sheen --> Trinity Force --> Mercury's Treads --> Frozen Heart --> Spirit Visage --> BotRK/Hydra --> Randuins/Thornmail/Maw/Banshee's.

The only thing I'm suggesting is switching BotRK/Hydra for Gunblade and your Situational (6th) item for Rageblade - and only situationally.

I don't know a single situation where you'd opt for a Rageblade and a Gunblade. If you, for some odd reason, need a third damage item on Jax at full item build, there are better choices. There is no reason to replace a BoRK with a Gunblade either. BoRK is cheaper and synergizes better with Jax.

The stats from Rageblade and Gunblade just aren't as good as the better alternative on Jax.

ABlueQuaker1 votes

I'm not even saying they're better alternatives, simply that they're viable alternatives.

You get value out of purchasing them. Not necessarily better value out of them - different value out of them.

Hybrid Jax was something to be feared for a long time at one point, and for good reason. It didn't suddenly become any weaker with no changes to TriForce, Gunblade, Rageblade or his AP Values. People just discovered other ways to build him that were more gold-to-damage efficient.

vIbvdOwbko1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Red Arrow,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8XTvF6lY,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-04-19T08:25:13.486+0000)

I'm not even saying they're better alternatives, simply that they're viable alternatives.

You get value out of purchasing them. Not necessarily better value out of them - different value out of them.

Hybrid Jax was something to be feared for a long time at one point, and for good reason. It didn't suddenly become any weaker with no changes to TriForce, Gunblade, Rageblade or his AP Values. People just discovered other ways to build him that were more gold-to-damage efficient.

That's exactly what I said. Those two items can be built but there is no reason to. Triforce + BoRK is the most optimal/gold-efficient damage items on Jax right now.

The "different value" is really just pumping gold into stats that Jax can't take full advantage of. The AD and AP from Gunblade and Rageblade really is just too excessive for a champion like Jax. In theory it might sound good but Jax as of now is mainly an autoattacker. Triforce and BoRK fit perfectly with Jax and empower him greatly because he synergizes with those two items so well.

You can go ahead and build any alternative item, but like I said, there are not many plausible situations where you'd want to put your gold into Gunblade and Rageblade over a tank item or a BoRK.

ABlueQuaker1 votes

I can't help but think, though, that there'd be some pretty huge synergy between Rageblade's UNIQUE Passive, the 20% Spell Vamp from Gunblade, 10% Life Steal from Gunblade, and the Passive from Spirit Visage.

Not to mention the fact that Gunblade's Active can be used several times in a fight depending on how drawn out it lasts and it applies Spell Effects (including Spell Vamp).

This would really still only be something that I'd play around with in Normal/Custom games or if I'm pretty far ahead of the Enemy Team.

Duke Anax1 votes

The most appealing argument for me is than Gunblade has almost twice the range of BorK. That makes it a gap closer instead of just a sticking abbility. Not to mention that less than half the cooldown.

ABlueQuaker1 votes

And the cooldown gets reduced by auto-attacking.

vIbvdOwbko1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Red Arrow,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8XTvF6lY,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-04-19T08:53:13.489+0000)

I can't help but think, though, that there'd be some pretty huge synergy between Rageblade's UNIQUE Passive, the 20% Spell Vamp from Gunblade, 10% Life Steal from Gunblade, and the Passive from Spirit Visage.

Not to mention the fact that Gunblade's Active can be used several times in a fight depending on how drawn out it lasts and it applies Spell Effects (including Spell Vamp).

This would really still only be something that I'd play around with in Normal/Custom games or if I'm pretty far ahead of the Enemy Team.

Go ahead and build it but I'm just saying that if you want the most optimal build, then BoRK and Triforce are superior in so many aspects.

I don't think spellvamp even does anything for Jax.

Anonagon1 votes

its alright but its been replaced with bork in his builds

paperbIade1 votes

what about rageblade

vIbvdOwbko1 votes

[{quoted}](name=I Win Haha,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8XTvF6lY,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-04-19T04:31:53.623+0000)

what about rageblade

The thing is that, these items would be fine on pre-rework Jax, when he could get tanky from building damage.

That has not been the case since his rework many years ago. Jax now has a timeframe of vulnerability, which is when his E is not up. He can't afford to build too much damage anymore. Build full damage and you get smashed and killed. You need to build tanky and your damage items need to provide some kind of utility to keep you alive/give something else besides killing carries.

The damage items that I find most common on Jax are: Trifroce BoRK Zephyr Hexdrinker

The most common combination of these is Triforce into tank, then bork later. If you're ahead you can get a bork right after triforce.

Triforce is a naturally good item on Jax. He works great with Sheen, which gives him mana, and some damage boost from AP. This allows him to function better while trading damage and really great when you're taking a tower. It gives all the stats that Jax could want. It has Phage passive, which is a good choice for champions that autoattack as often as him. Triforce gives you a ton of burst and damage from early to mid game.

BoRK is great because it gives lifesteal to Jax and a very, very nice active slow that lets him catch/stick to enemies. It's been a lot harder to stick to carries over the years because of all the peel. This is the choice over gunblade because attack speed is a better choice for Jax over the AP.

Zephyr is situational. It gives insane movespeed and Tenacity. Good pickup if you opted for Ninja Tabi's over Mercs. You could replace your mercs with this when you're full build. The attack speed and ad are obviously nice items for Jax.

Hexdrinker if you're facing an AP laner or AP heavy team. Champions like Ryze, for example.

Anything is else is generally suboptimal on Jax, either because they don't provide utility/tankiness like Jax needs. Pure damage items usually don't work well on Jax, but you're allowed to try anything at all on him. Pretty much any item will work decently on Jax to some degree.

ABlueQuaker1 votes

Here's where I often like to chime in.

Here's your standard Jax build: item 3111 item 3153 item 3110 item 3078 item 3065 and then your situational item item 3143 item 3156 item 3075 item 3102 etc.

BotRK is your Lifesteal/Sustain item. As such it can be viably replaced by item 3074 or item 3146 depending on what you want/need.

item 3124 on the other hand is a completely situational item. On Jax, it is suitably viable and perfectly acceptable to build as your 6th/situational item if you want that much more damage in your build.

AFK Push1 votes

Most Jax's take item 3143 over item 3110 to stick to squishies after you jump on them.

ABlueQuaker1 votes

If I wanted more sticking power I'd probably get both.

Regardless, the CDR from Frozen Heart (20%) and Spirit Visage (10%) provides a total of 30% CDR. At 30% CDR, Rank 5 Leap Strike has a 4.2 Second Cooldown. Take into account Mercury's Treads's % Tenacity, Phage's Passive (Rage), and the % Movement Speed from Zeal along with the 4.2 Second Leap Strike Cooldown as well as the increased mana pool and you could quite literally stick to a target from one side of the map to the other.

AFK Push1 votes

Another option if snowballed is to get a item 3022 for some real sticking power.

Mistikal1 votes

It's not awful.... botrk is just better. gives you att speed to proc your ults more frequent plus it just a better all around dueling item.

Epsilaun1 votes

It is a good item on jax, really rounds him out in every way, but then BotRK came in, and did mostly the same thing, but provided more AS, and an on hit dmg, and most of jax dmg is going to be basic attack unless you are AP (which pure AP isnt that smart to do on jax)

it used to be core on him, BotRK just kinda did it better

Stonington1 votes

Rageblade is the most useless item in the game. Gunblade is back to an Akali only item since Ludens now exists. For a brief time it was actually the best 4th/5th item on Katarina.

More from Gameplay

More by paperbIade