Top Laners - Explain this to me please

AgentSpiritWolf·12/17/2019, 7:35:02 PM·6 votes·8,163 views

What is the etiquette for leashing an adc jg? Is there any?

I started jg as Warwick, so I would just facetank the monster. This is less then ideal with Kindred, who I'm working with now, but honeslty would still be fine if I could expect the top laner to stick around for more than 3 hits.

Some seem to want to tank it, but then leave quick, it's rare anyone tried to kite and attack it with me. Even when I tank it, they seem to take that as license that all is peachy and again leave quick.

How do i get a decent leash from top? How does it work? What do you expect? The difference in good leash is the difference of potentially controlling the entire jg for rest of game, I am not exaggerating at all. Please explain.

25 Comments

Sire Hippington12/17/2019, 8:24:16 PM12 votes

ideally you don't start topside.

Toplane, if you get to your lane late in many matchups means you you surrender lane priority till ~lvl 3, so if you get a hardpull form your top, don't expect him to help at scuttle cause he'll be under his tower when it spawns. Toplane matchups are often highly volatile so small things like beeing late to lane can have a big impact. Worst case scenario is that the enemie has early lNE controll, gets a faster lvl 2 and can zone me while soft freezing(wave moves towards me, but very slowly), by the time the wave finally hits my tower he is lvl 3 while i'm lvl 2, and his jungler is lvl 3 and ready for a dive with double buff aswell, cause he started bot and got a leashe from 2 guys instead of one. At the same time, you are probably bot side at that point and can't help to defend the dive becuase that's where you end up from starting top usually.

The only time i do (hard)pulls as top is when i'm already in a bad early matchup and probably sit under the tower anyway, or when i'm premade with my jungler and know he'll come for the lvl 2 gank after the buff or counterjungle to make sure the opposing jungler either doesn't get lvl 3 in time or stays botside.

If you feel like you really need a hardpull on your champ to compete, start botside, they can even do a smitless one cause 2>1 and they can leave the support to help you while the adc already goes for CS(depending on the enemie comp ofc)

Darkdemon65312/17/2019, 7:44:18 PM6 votes

You probably shouldn't start top.

What I do is auto-attack, use my Q which is a reset, and attack three more times. I also try to take two attacks, though most of my junglers don't let me. All of this (generally) ensures I don't miss a minion and that I reach full health after hitting the first minion.

Spicy Rice12/18/2019, 12:01:00 AM5 votes

I'm im leashing, im not tanking. I'm already screwing myself by not being able to get to lane on time. Losing HP on top of time just puts me so behind early, I might as well not walk up for the next 5 mins

AlienPrimate12/17/2019, 8:35:32 PM4 votes

If you can't solo the buff level 1 then don't start top. Asking the top to help forces them to choose between giving up the first 5 minutes of the game and seeming like a douche. In bottom side, the ranged adc can get to lane fast enough to last hit the first minions after a 3 man leash. In top, the melee doesn't stand a chance at last hitting the first 3 minions and often doesn't even make it there in time to get exp for them after a 2 man leash. This means the enemy gets level 2 3 minions sooner. This also means they will all in with a favorable trade if your top laner even tries to get close enough to last hit, thus them leashing for you causes them to lose more than an entire wave of gold unless they start the game with some form of ranged ability to last hit with like Mundo.

Z3SIeeper12/17/2019, 9:22:33 PM3 votes

If you make me take a single hit from your buff I'm done leashing. That's when I walk to lane.

If you insist on having a melee laner leash for you then you need to tank it. The moment you kite behind me I'm gone.

Being down 50 health on starting top lane can cost 1st blood. We can't stand back and farm from a distance like an ADC or Mage while our health regens.

Depending on the champ, I'm down to take a hit, sometimes two, if I have some sort of in-built healing or shield that I can use to heal up through the rest of the leash or block the damage entirely.

Thefrostyviking12/17/2019, 9:15:38 PM3 votes

Depends on their mood, same as botlane.

If they wana stay and give you a heavy leash then they will, if not then nope.

Now toplane is just more prone to not done it since the lane is extremely harsh when it comes to having to keep even in EXP, falling behind that department can screw them over.

LightswornLance12/18/2019, 1:51:04 AM3 votes

The proper etiquette is not picking an adc jungle and putting your team at a heavy disadvantage. I say this as an avid graves player.

Lauchmelder12/17/2019, 9:12:26 PM3 votes

Do yourself a favor and start botside. Unless we're a duo I value my own lane (including lane priority at level 2/3) over any other lane/jungle. This means I'll stick around for 2-4 hits and maybe an ability but then you're on your own.

Póppy Chulo12/18/2019, 1:25:25 AM3 votes

I play tank tops. Usually its fine to tank 2 hits max, we have enough health regen. Using Poppy as an example, i tank with my shield, again using the other half of my shield+half of hp, and another hit, being 1.5x a hit that i took. All this while using my Q to slow it and kite it.

If the kit allows it, they should tank it. I can see somebody like Irelia tanking 1 or 2 hits, and healing it with Q on minions.

Also consider the enemy matchup, I wouldnt want to face darius with 1 less hp.

Hi im 1212/18/2019, 1:52:43 PM2 votes

it depends really, when I see a good twitch or or taliya player I'll tank 2 hits and give em a good leash, when I see negative wr glacial augment ghost kindred I'm probably just going straight to lane and hope they rage quit the game so I have better odds at winning.

JA Stulla12/18/2019, 2:48:52 AM2 votes

To be honest no champ needs a leash. U suck if u need one. Pull the camps around the area to reduce damage like wtf?

Urgasm12/18/2019, 5:45:05 PM1 votes

I dont tank and i leash up until i can get to lane without losing 3 creeps. People that spam ping for help when it would mean losing 3 creeps of gold and xp in lane is beyond me

Skia Asteri12/17/2019, 8:50:10 PM1 votes

If you are at an Elo were people don't seem to know how to leash well, just start bot side for the better leash. After all, even if they do give a good one they may over do it and lose the top side of the map before they even reach lane.

Ignoring the variable that is the lane match up, how many hits and how long to stay depends on the champion. In terms of time, the maximum is how ever long still allows them to reliably reach lane without missing the first minion of XP. And ideally they would leave with time to not miss any CS either. Champs with higher move speed or an ability they can use to get there faster can stay longer.

In terms of taking hits, the minimum is how ever many hits of damage they can more or less heal up from HP regen by the time they being fighting their lane opponent.

I play 1 champ Shyvana , so unless asked specifically asked for something different I take 1-2 (depending on armor runes or not) hits and leave once the debuff from my E expires (it is 5 seconds, so at ~1:35). I would take at most 2-3 hits and stay for 7 seconds (~1:37).

HommeGoujon12/17/2019, 9:30:52 PM1 votes

I usually stay until at least HP<1k. When I leash as Shen I do 2 empowered Q's (I activate it once at 1:25 so that by the time I hit my 3 empowered AA, I can activate it again). It will probably depend on the player though. If you ask for a "big leash" you might get one but somehow, most top laners like to get to their lane early... just to wait. They just sit there walking right and left until they can last hit the first minion. So long as I don't lose early exp then I'm fine.

Wordson1x12/17/2019, 10:12:35 PM1 votes

The jg is the one who should be tanking it. (While kitting) If it's a ranged jg (Kindred, Graves, Twitch) then get ready to tank a few hits because the camp will likely switch over to you. If it is a ranged jg try and not reset it since that happens the most with ranged jg.

WTBeGirl100EUhr12/18/2019, 2:57:37 AM1 votes

If you are playing a ranged jungle and you want to start top side it is your job to either tank for the top laner or expect a very poor leash. It's best to start bottomside if you can. Top laners lose a lot for leashing that bot lanes do not so much (and if it's an issue often you can send the ADC to lane earlier whilst the support gives a more extensive leash), as well as the leash just being worse.

Unless you literally won't lose health like with Poppy passive, you don't tank the buff for your jungler as a top laner. You're just suiciding your lane. If I leash for a ranged champion I tell them that if I get hit once as it isn't my fault then I will walk away and that's what I do.

A leash should only be 3-4 AAs and maybe a cheap ability. You shouldn't be expecting more than that whichever side of the jungle you're on.

Harden Stepback12/18/2019, 1:10:03 PM1 votes

I'll tank 2 hits

AccurateYeet12/18/2019, 1:32:47 PM1 votes

As a ranged jungler you should be able to kite the buff and shouldn't need their help. As a sizable chunk of this thread as already told you leashing can severely disadvantage your top lane for what should be minimal benefit if you're good enough to be playing kindred at all. Botside is mostly expected to fake the leash anyhow unless they're red side actively cheesing tribrush, so we're losing the time anyway. Either learn to solo or start bot.

ImTheJuggernauty12/18/2019, 3:52:25 PM1 votes

I usually play darius and if I have to least jg, then I try to get the buff down to 50% hp before leaving. I no longer ever wait longer than that because otherwise the bleed has the potential to steal the buff and seriously tilt/enrage the jungler. I think it's generally good to get the buff down to 50% hp before leaving anyway.

I don't mind tanking it for 2 or 3 hits as well unless I'm going into a rough matchup like teemo, heimer, vayne, etc, in which case I expect the jungler to tank all the hits (be conscious of your top laner's matchups when considering how much to let them tank the buff).

All that being said, there is no hard and fast rule. It's about communication. If you want or NEED a strong leash, let them know how badly you need it and ask politely. Most people are willing to help IF you let them know and ask. But they aren't psychic and can't read your mind. It's kind of on you if you don't communicate and, therefore, they don't give you the level of gank you want or need.

The thigh guy12/18/2019, 3:55:18 PM1 votes

Yeah I refuse to ever start top entirely because top laners consistently refuse to leash. Then cry when I won’t gank them

Need Gold 4 Tent12/18/2019, 4:14:57 PM1 votes

because if you had gotten a leash bot lane, you'd have gotten a better leash with even less time spent by the laners. start bot side. even cowsep starts blue on yi if it happens to be bot side, even as an ad jungler who does more damage on red side.

Cind3rkick12/17/2019, 7:41:38 PM1 votes

Either tank 2-3 hits and go off earlier than you usually would if htye were tanking.

IF they tank then its business as usual

Kite it and take 1 hit or 2 and leave slightly earlier

Kite it and dont attack.

Those are pretty much your 4 main options. Depending on how kind you are you can change it up a bit but its roughly that.