Tahm Kench buffs/nerfs? Why can't he solo?

Harveason·Jun 17, 2016·4 votes·950 views

As a tahm kench main, I was a little surprised at the changes I've been hearing about, especially considering he is already considered bottom tier. I don't know if this is true, but they want to make him strictly a support which I think is ridiculous. Part of the fun of tahm kench is that he was a tank and a support, eventually being able to hold his own in solo que. Perhaps someone could correct me and I'm very confused if these will be buffs or nerfs overall, but so far I'm seeing a nerf in damage and a nerf to his shield, two staple components of the champion.

To me, if someone like fizz can be god tier in two lanes, tahm kench, a bottom tier champion should be able to perform both his roles. His isn't labeled just as a support like bard, he is a tank and support.

19 Comments

137434Jun 17, 20162 votes

Meddler has already said that the primary purpose of the current changes is to make his E a healthier game mechanic with the intention of eventually buffing him, and that there are other changes such as the AA % health damage scaling over the game that have yet to hit the PBE.

HarveasonJun 17, 20161 votes

I really hope there is more to this, if there is keep me updated hah, cause cutting the damage and shield of a trash tier champion concerns me greatly

Zero Skill TankJun 17, 20162 votes

The problem with TK is that if he gets strong he is literally worse than Fizz to play against. That's why before buffing him they try to reduce his most toxic moments first. If they simply buffed his numbers, he would soon become both contested pick in competitive and permban in soloQ, like he used to be.

I'd really like him to get to decent state too, his theme and visuals are so cool that I'd love to play some TK, but the truth is he is one of worst designed champs ever kit-wise. Especially giving him any incentive to actually rank up Thick Skin instead of it being 100% HP shield one point wonder should allow to put some more power elsewhere. You simply can't give decent power to a champion who just won't die from level 3 onwards.

I'm kind of afraid he will end up supporting after all, balancing champion with this much utility to be a solo laner doesn't seem doable.

HarveasonJun 17, 20161 votes

He is my favorite champion next to aurelion sol and mundo, and I'd argue that mundo was more ridiculous healing and sustain. With what I've heard so far there would need to be some REALLY good buffs to convince me this is a good idea as he is already bad right now. Gutting his damage and shield I feel removes part of what makes tahm kench unique. He doesn't heal allies or gives them shields in a traditional sense and is pretty slow, in exchange for that he does decent damage, can eat champions and provide some mobility to allies via W and R.

The reason I like tahm kench over other supports his not only his playstyle, animations and theme, but he has a little room to not be useless. For example, I'd solo que and would sometimes get either a garbage ADC or would have nobody at all bottom. This would normally really mess up support champs, but tahm kench simply changes a few items and he can adapt and become a tankier more offensive role by giving up the extra totems.

Zero Skill TankJun 18, 20161 votes

But see, that's the point. If he is solo laning, he gets all that utility, plus solo potential. It's exactly same stuff like solo lane Lulu.

HarveasonJun 18, 20161 votes

My issue is that there are champs able to do multiple lanes like Fizz in god tier and he gets a 2 second cd nerf, tahm kench is bottom tier, 40% win rate and he gets a nerf in damage, survivability and forced to only play in one lane.

That is my issue, it can't be that unhealthy if certain god tier champs get a slap on the wrist for fulfilling multiple lanes in the highest tier.

Sneakyy XDJun 17, 20161 votes

They're pretty big nerfs.

HarveasonJun 17, 20161 votes

They really are, I could understand if it was a top tier champ that was getting great results but really? 45% win rate, in the bottom tier right now and you want to gut his shield AND damage output. What does that even accomplish?

SerevasJun 17, 20161 votes

Well Tahm Kench was always intended as a support to begin with. He's not labeled tank/support, he's labeled support/tank so he is intended first to be a support, while being tanky as well.

I will say that the nerfs seem very overkill. When you look at OP.GG His play rate in either position is below 1%, and beyond that his win rates are right in the toilet, 43% in support and about 40% in top lane. This will pretty much just put him lower than trash tier.

Furthermore the support item changes are looking to push the coin using champions straight into god tier, oh wait. Janna and Soraka are two of the most played supports already, both boasting above 50% win rates.

HarveasonJun 17, 20161 votes

Exactly, if they gave him some useful tools/buffs to compensate for this maybe I would consider it, but his winrate is already terrible in both roles, he is ranked as bottom tier, you want to take THAT champion and butcher his damage and shield? WHy would you want to nerf him at all?

To me its stupid because someone like Fizz who is god tier in two lanes, gets a 2 second cd reduction for his nerf, but tahm kench, a trash tier champion gets a cut to his damage and shield potential. He's already slow, he needs his damage and shield, it's not like mundo where he can run away. It's so ridiculous

ProfirixJun 20, 20161 votes

You can't blame coin for Janna/Soraka states of existence. Those items have been trash tier ever since they decided to nerf the MS active. They needed a huge buff and finally they are getting it. The gold generation items should be a choice... even on certain tanks. Do I need sustain more than I need tankiness? What is my lane match-up? Do I need to provide more passive healing/support or do I need to be more aggressive. Each GG item should work depending on the play style. Right now you either go relic shield or spell thiefs edge. Coin was not living up to the other options and providing an equivalent alternative.

JackLovesLampJun 19, 20161 votes

Aight hey what's up hello!

If you take a closer look at the changes, you'll see they are actually increasing his damage when at max stacks! Meaning while getting to max stacks you'll be about the same amount of bonus damage while stacking, and higher when stacked!

Currently he gets damage based on 2/4/6% BONUS health, the change on the PBE would change this to a (max of) 3/3.75/4.5% TOTAL health. Tahm Kench's base health at lvl 18 is 2225 (which means the change to total health instead of bonus will be getting him 100 or so damage at max stacks and level 18 from base health alone.) So if you had 4k health at lvl 18, 6% of bonus HP would be 106 damage. Now it will be 4.5% (at max stacks) of all 4000 health which is 180 damage (very big increase!) This damage will also be available from levels 1-6, something the current passive does not provide!

They are ALSO buffing the damage of his tongue lash by 20 base damage! So overall, his damage is actually increasing!

They are also increasing the escape use and engage use of his ult slightly by those .5 second changes on delay and when enemy can see you appearing.

The only nerf on these changes really is the one point wonder-ness of his shield currently. But again I think these changes could honestly be viewed as BUFFS! Currently, Tahm doesn't shield until he gets quite low, because he will probably only get to use it once in the fight. By utilizing the new 3 second CD, you'll want to use it early on -ish in a fight, and then again when the shield is depleted and it's off cooldown and you take some more damage. The new shield doesn't decay, so if you utilize it effectively, you can probably get more damage shielded via 2-3 shields in a fight than the current rapidly decaying one-time-use shield it is!

So while these look like nerfs, taking a closer look I think reveals them as buffs to both his support and solo laning capabilities!

JackLovesLampJun 19, 20161 votes

TL;DR: Tahm Kench is definitely getting more damage because of the inclusion of his large base health in his damage bonus (now total instead of bonus health), plus the buff to his tongue lash damage.

Ult is getting buffed decently

Shield is a buff or nerf depending on the situation I guess! But with proper use could be a buff!

HarveasonJun 20, 20161 votes

I really hope you're right, I'm concerned about forcing him into 100% support role similar to bard when I think the spirit of this champ is to be a tanky support that can handle himself if truly needed.

Do you know when these changes will go into effect?

ProfirixJun 20, 20161 votes

Its a damage buff vs. single target, but a nerf vs. multiple enemies, since you have to stack them individually to get extra damage. It is nerf to sustained damage because your devour removes all stacks from the target, thus removing bonus damage. Ult is all around a buff I guess, but I'm still not convinced it makes it usable. Shield is mostly a nerf, if you consider the loss of lane sustain due to large reduction grey health and healing therefore acquired. Shield will be more powerful but over a shorter duration.

zlumpyJun 20, 20161 votes

Easy fix to this would be to allow items like titanic hydra to apply taste stacks when hitting in AoE. This lets you be more offense oriented at the cost of some defense stats he builds and let him do more dmg in a team fight.