Not that Riot has any interest in sharing it with us, here.
On their own forums.
http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2rjoix/16_pbe_update/cngk391 http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2rjoix/16_pbe_update/cngloqk http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2rjoix/16_pbe_update/cngu3dy
RiotRiot Reinboom11 votesI'm interested in hearing feedback or seeing discussion for Zz'Rot Portal wherever possible. Reddit just got asking questions first.
What are you interested in?
gameipedia1 votesis supposed to be a support or top lane item? I can see it easily being both, and being a supp main would appreciate something other than GA to give AR and MR also another thing with point-runner passive :D
RiotRiot Reinboom5 votesTop, Bruisers, or a late game "My GA is on cooldown and I just really need to take a turret so I'll exchange the GA for this new thing" item.
Fun fact: Raptor Cloak (and thus Point Runner) was made for this item. It building into Ohmwrecker was a later changed. This item just got delayed enough that it got released in a weird order.
Flemman1 voteswill it be available on HA and TT too?
RiotRiot Reinboom7 votesCurrently, no. It was tuned for SR lane distances so we would need to do a bit of research to make sure it would work healthily on those maps first.
Bismuthinite1 votesHow about Dominion? I am guessing no?
RiotRiot Reinboom8 votesNope. Sorry! It could be kind of interesting on Crystal Scar, though the cooldown might be a bit long for the map. Hm.
Bismuthinite1 votesWouldn't hurt to try, would it? That's what the PBE is for after all :)
But you are right, the cooldown is a little high for Dominion. How about a Dominion specific version with a lowered cooldown (just like Twin Shadows)?
Flemman2 votesthe problem I saw with crystal scar utility is that there is no building to destroy so, except for minion, they'll have little impact on the game
Bismuthinite2 votesThere are capture points which can be capped, you know...
Flemman1 votesYeah, I know :p, but the voidspawn destroy themself on bulding. Like capture point need to be charge to start the capture, they will just destroy themself without really any impact on it.
I don't see how instant damage can be turn in continous capture % for something who destoy while doing the damage
Bismuthinite2 votesYeah, I know :p, but the voidspawn destroy themself on bulding. Like capture point need to be charge to start the capture, they will just destroy themself without really any impact on it.
Minions kill themselves while capturing points as well.
I don't see how instant damage can be turn in continous capture % for something who destoy while doing the damage
They don't need to make the capturing continuous, instant would be an option as well.
SirFeedselot4 votesthe problem I saw with crystal scar utility is that there is no building to destroy so, except for minion, they'll have little impact on the game
When people that really know how to play dominion play together they are all over the map at once and the game looks like a dance with the focus of keeping the current balance of the map. Dominion is mostly about the pacing and flow of a team.
Zz'Rot being able to auto push a lane would be very useful because of how it would disturb the momentum of the opposite team, which can be all it takes to win or lose a game of Dom.
RiotFeralPony3 votesThe number of changes the item would need to function properly on Dominion both from an implementation and a gameplay perspective are substantial enough it would be close to making an entirely new item. Not ruling it out in the future though (and we could certainly reuse the cute little bug models).
Bismuthinite2 votesThanks for not ruling it out straight away. Just like the guy in the quote below explained, it would really spice up the available strategies:
When people that really know how to play dominion play together they are all over the map at once and the game looks like a dance with the focus of keeping the current balance of the map. Dominion is mostly about the pacing and flow of a team.
Zz'Rot being able to auto push a lane would be very useful because of how it would disturb the momentum of the opposite team, which can be all it takes to win or lose a game of Dom.
Rebonack1 votes[{quoted}](name=Riot Reinboom,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7oARdY0f,comment-id=00000001000000000000,timestamp=2015-01-07T20:20:41.399+0000)
Nope. Sorry! It could be kind of interesting on Crystal Scar, though the cooldown might be a bit long for the map. Hm.
Hey Rein!
If you guys could find a way to make it function for Dominion some time in the future once the 'bugs' are worked out that would be really swell. It would probably need a Dominion-specific variant due to the cooldown. GA has a similar problem, as it happens.
Given that minions 'capture' points by attacking them, I would imagine the Voidspawn's self-destruct would just be a heavy chunk toward neutralizing/capturing a point.
Flemman1 votesKind of happy about that^^
I know they start to lose life after 3 sec but on HA it 's probably enough to put the gate behind you tower and still have full life voidspawn at ennemy tower (depends on voidspawn ms ?)
On another note, will the gate be count as an ally unit for kha'zix isolation?
BallisticMouse1 votesAre there plans to research and then put them into maps like TT?
Bismuthinite2 votesDo you expect it to be actually used or do you feel like it's going to share the same fate as Ohmwrecker / Promote / BoC?
Do the Voidspawns benefit from the siege commander elixir?
RiotRiot Reinboom14 votesMy predictions: It will have a spike in usage when it first rolls out then it will have a drastic decrease. People will find creative usages and some people will become attached to it. It's a uniquely fun ability - active map presence on an item - for some players. I don't think it will have an overwhelming usage rate though, it's not really "core" on many champions.
They currently aren't boosted by siege commander. That will probably change.
Stephenizgod1 votesThe item seems really fun, but i am a bit worried that when one person buys it the other person must buy it to stay even. Obviously i will wait until its released to fully judge it but currently im worried about it forcing the other person to buy it so they dont get overwhelmed.
Also against match-ups such as melee vs ranged, where the ranged champion has no problem pushing but the melee is having trouble, the ranged champion could buy this to further push the lane and destroy turrets while at the same time harassing the melee champion. I think i might just be over-exaggerating its power a bit though.
Another question would be what would be the plans for it should it become a must buy on both champions in a lane. Would you decrease its defense stats so the champion needs to make a meaningful choice between resistances and lane control? or are you ok with it being a must buy Top lane to stay even?
Sachabot1 votesWhat if it grants cs exp and gold? I feel like that would be an interesting response, if you could turn it to reward your lane management abilities.
I'd like to hear tuning answer as well, though. Here's to hoping Reinboom sees and answers.
RiotRiot Reinboom6 votesThe cost of the item is already paid by building it. Unlike a champion ability, there was already significant investment given to getting a void gate out. Turning such an investment into a reward for your opponent is... tricky and not ideal. The void gate itself does provide 25 gold when you kill it, but even that is only a tiny bit for the purposes of the incentive, "this is the thing you're supposed to kill".
HolySmite1 votesWhen one of your voidlings produced by your own Zz'Rot Portals kills a minion, do you get the CS for that?
RiotRiot Reinboom4 votesMost ranged champions have better tools available to them for taking towers than Zz'Rot Portal already.
If it becomes a must pick on all champions, then the base stats of the voidspawn can be dropped even further and more of it shifted over to how your defenses contribute to its damage. That is, pushing it even further into the realms "tank only-ness" Damage output counters Zz'Rot Portal innately in that you can clear the voidspawn and the void gates. If your opposing ranged character purchases an early Zz'Rot Portal, then you can build clear and sustain (Tiamat) to deal with it or you can threaten pressure elsewhere. By putting their value into pushing power, they sacrificed stats that could've helped them with Dragon.
Stephenizgod1 votesOk that makes sense, i know ranged have other items at their disposal for taking turrets, but i was just unsure of how much of an impact the voidspawn have on a lane and turret.
...more of it shifted over to how your defenses contribute to its damage. That is, pushing it even further into the realms "tank only-ness"
That is really interesting, i use to play mostly tanks or tankier champions, was it ever considered making this entirely a tank item? Like voidspawn get extremely powerful when you have very high resistances?
Instead of gaining damage based on 50% of armor and resistances it could be changed to 70% of bonus armor and magic resist? This way only tanky tanks will benefit from the voidspawn and it will help them push towers they dont have the damage to take themselves. You could even take it further and keep ramping up the damage they gain based solely on bonus resistances, starting out lower and around late game these voidspawn are a real threat. I know the numbers are off sorry im not very good with numbers when resistances are involved.
EDIT: Of course Bruisers would be come too powerful when split pusing and we dont want Jax being able to destroy a turret even faster.
Sightless661 votesOk that makes sense, i know ranged have other items at their disposal for taking turrets, but i was just unsure of how much of an impact the voidspawn have on a lane and turret.
Very little. The item is pretty stat inefficient. If you buy it in lane, I can buy a better fighting item and threaten to kill you if you ever get close enough to the tower to threaten it. I've had a few people buy it against me on the PBE, and it almost always results in them losing a lot of power, even if they were winning lane before. It's kind of like if someone decided their first item would be a GA. Just doesn't work.
Of course Bruisers would be come too powerful when split pusing and we dont want Jax being able to destroy a turret even faster.
It's unlikely Jax will be buying it. He wants strong efficient stats, and he already pushes really well without this. Instead of getting this item, why not get a stronger defensive item so you can outfight someone, or get an offensive item that will give him better pushing than the portal would?
Stephenizgod1 votesI was thinking these voidspawn were like slightly weaker voidlings but it appears they are only really strong if you have decent resistances. Im still not entirely sure on some stuff but i have a PBE account im going to just check up on it lol.
I was talking about with my bonus armor changes. I was just naming a split push champion that could benefit from the voidspawn. Jax can build 2 damage items then the rest tank, so this item would be the 6th item rather then say GA. I was just throwing out a brusiers name who can split push really well not being super literal in that it would make Jax OP.
RiotRiot Nitsuabo4 votesSpeaking as a player and fan, not a Rioter involved with design, I'm eager to try this on Galio. In my experience, he's an example of a mostly-ranged character who doesn't have great tools for taking towers (aside from his waveclear), plus he loves getting magic resist and armor on the same item.
MrBuffington2 votesI'm trying to think of other champions who could be serious splitpush threats if not for a pretty mediocre ability to take towers; so far I'm thinking Singed and Garen could make some pretty good use of this item since they can proxy farm pretty well and are pretty good about escaping, as well as favoring some tanky stats. Maybe also Mundo and Malphite?
What Is Smite1 votesif an item grants resistances and it is great for pushing then you can expect thresh/blitz to abuse it if they are ahead or if their lane lacks any wave clear (vayne/quinn/etc.)
Champion Skin2 votesWell mundo has a 100+ AD steroid in his E at rank 5 that is at least something Though there is also Ryze... he can clear waves but he just can't push towers at all though I guess he kind of disappeared again so it doesn't matter that much
MrBuffington1 votesYea I think they're reworking him into a mid lane mage again, or at least giving something top laners can counterplay vs
Ale non è male1 votes[{quoted}](name=Riot Nitsuabo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7oARdY0f,comment-id=0000000400010001,timestamp=2015-01-08T02:47:52.047+0000)
Speaking as a player and fan, not a Rioter involved with design, I'm eager to try this on Galio. In my experience, he's an example of a mostly-ranged character who doesn't have great tools for taking towers (aside from his waveclear), plus he loves getting magic resist and armor on the same item.
Galio and Heimer were exactly the first champ I was thinking about when looking at ZZ'Rtot, especially on the first iteration Galio becoming more powerful can be only positive for the actual meta, given how he counters assassins
Hilltop Sunset2 votesIn terms of turret aggro, what is the voidspawn's priority rating? Will it be targeted before other lane minions?
Junkο1 votesSome history on the design/appearance of Voidspawns? How did the art team come up with it?
Kosomic2 votesCurious on how it is to be managed. if we have a Yorick with 6 portals going then that will make his split push even more insane than it already is. But none the less i like the sort of minion item and think it's a great addition.
Well done Riot
RiotRiot Reinboom7 votesLike other active items, all of your Zz'Rot Portals have a shared cooldown. You can't have 6 up at one time yourself.
aaronconlin2 votesDo you think the Voidspawns will eventually be effected by other minion-related auras? Like Baron buff, Banner of Command, etc
Meep Man2 votesChampions I thinking about using this item on:
Any other I should look at?
junglerboy161 votesI'm mostly excited for malachite and Alistar, since both push hard, but kill towers slowly. Malz could make great use of it too for tower killing. You could also use it on a really fed Assassin or carry as bait into a bush and then burst people.
Durzaka1 votesI havent played on the PBE this cycle, despite having an account, so i dont have any experience.
But my initial thoughts are, who would build this?
It is an armor and MR item, which is fucking amazing, we finally have a second item with both stats on it.
But that active. It is really cool conceptually. But i still dont get who would use it. If im playing a dedicated splitpusher, like Yi, Udyr, Shaco, Tryndamere etc. etc. I dont want an armor and MR item, i want more AD or attack speed to kill the turrets faster when i eventually get there. If im playing a tanky champion who doesnt always splitpush, why would i want the active at all? If im tanky like Renekton, id do better to get other items, because the active is so rarely going to be useful to me.
Maybe someone can explain that to me.
FantasySniper2 votesIt's for anyone that wants pushing power, but doesn't usually get that power normally through their usual items. So tanks and supports.
Durzaka1 votesIt's for anyone that wants pushing power, but doesn't usually get that power normally through their usual items. So tanks and supports.
And why do tanks need the pushing power? They should be pushing with their entire team, not by themselves.
Same for supports.
FantasySniper2 votesThat's why they would like the push power. To complement their team.
I don't think it of as an efficient solo-pushing option, and it will probably mostly be used while the team is trying to fight at the tower.
Durzaka1 votesThat's why they would like the push power. To complement their team.
I don't think it of as an efficient solo-pushing option, and it will probably mostly be used while the team is trying to fight at the tower.
If youre pushing as a team, why in the world would you need the item? It has the exact same concept as Ohmwrecker. Using it to try and fight at the tower.
Notice how no one builds Ohmwrecker.
FantasySniper1 votesNo one? The Point Runner passive is worth it enough.
Tendrian1 votesCan we talk about why this item is necessary at all? It seems like just another arbitrary active item added (of which we have way to many already...). It's exactly the kind of item that makes me stay in ARAMs these days.
Sachabot7 votesI'd rather see more items that do different things. Maybe we'll quit seeing the exact same builds every effing game.
