No item should give both tank and damage

Neko Caitlyn··2 votes·415 views

Why do bruisers get to scale more then twice as hard because they can get broken items?

13 Comments

Angry Monster4 votes

item 3157 item 3046 item 3812 item 3137 item 3814

pretty sure not a single class problem

xJLx MCHammer4 votes

No item should give surviveability and dmg.

item 3137 item 3156

No items should make a champion designed to wave clear slowly, suddenly wave clear better than Viktor item 3085 item 3087

ValyrianBlade3 votes

[{quoted}](name=xJLx MCHammer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7l5Eq2Qn,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-11-21T00:15:02.456+0000)

No item should give surviveability and dmg.

item 3137 item 3156

No items should make a champion designed to wave clear slowly, suddenly wave clear better than Viktor item 3085 item 3087

Yea actually, i do have a problem with so many of the newer items added to the game / reworked to be more useful.

Why is it that if MS, Waveclear, Mobility (item 3152), reliable soft CC/engage (item 3092 item 3030), sticking power (item 3153 item 3044 ), susceptibility to CC (item 3140 item 3222 ),etc... are supposed to be strengths/weaknesses those champions without the strength (or with the weakness) can build to compensate.

E.g. if a team is missing a decent engage, it takes relatively little for top to build item 3800 and support to build item 3092 and suddenly your team is decent at engaging fights.

Then something like hard CC we can't build. Like if the enemy team has last pick and you pick a team with a good amount of slows / soft CC but no Hard CC and they last pick Master Yi you're sort of fucked. You can't just get out of that no CC weakness by having someone alter their build to buy something that lets you shoot a freeze-ray to stun someone or chuck a grenade and knock someone up...

If they're going to get rid of some weaknesses, they need to make items that can get rid of them all. That means either add items that let you use an active to create hard CC, or remove the items that give people all of the other stuff. Unique actives/passives are all really cool, but if the current direction continues why would you ever play someone without hard CC and good distance mobility? If you can build anything else you need, what's the point?

xJLx MCHammer1 votes

{quoted}

Yea actually, i do have a problem with so many of the newer items added to the game / reworked to be more useful.

Why is it that if MS, Waveclear, Mobility (item 3152), reliable soft CC/engage (item 3092 item 3030), sticking power (item 3153 item 3044 ), susceptibility to CC (item 3140 item 3222 ),etc... are supposed to be strengths/weaknesses those champions without the strength (or with the weakness) can build to compensate.

E.g. if a team is missing a decent engage, it takes relatively little for top to build item 3800 and support to build item 3092 and suddenly your team is decent at engaging fights.

Then something like hard CC we can't build. Like if the enemy team has last pick and you pick a team with a good amount of slows / soft CC but no Hard CC and they last pick Master Yi you're sort of fucked. You can't just get out of that no CC weakness by having someone alter their build to buy something that lets you shoot a freeze-ray to stun someone or chuck a grenade and knock someone up...

If they're going to get rid of some weaknesses, they need to make items that can get rid of them all. That means either add items that let you use an active to create hard CC, or remove the items that give people all of the other stuff. Unique actives/passives are all really cool, but if the current direction continues why would you ever play someone without hard CC and good distance mobility? If you can build anything else you need, what's the point?

Because that's now how balance works

If you give someone the ability to buy items that give abilities... both sides have it. In many ways, you just gave a Master Yi a ******ing hard CC.

Personally, I dislike items that generally give abilities or unique because when you have over 120 champions, it will be abuse-able by a small amount. I generally defend items that grant abilities especially a passive ability like MR/Armor or even something that grants more dmg/hp/stat boost, but what Riot keeps doing just feels stupid. item 3087 item 3085 are brain dead; it completely destroy the idea behind the weakness of a champion.

ForgiveColour1 votes

No items should make a champion designed to wave clear slowly, suddenly wave clear better than Viktor item 3085 item 3087

you just gave me cancer

Sir Fuzzi3 votes

Mages currently benefit from a lot of mainstay items that provide both tank and damage.

A lot of assassins are currently under fire because viable bruiser options are viable for them too.

Items giving both tank and damage allow champions with low natural resources to come forward in gameplay. Without them, melee champions without poke would feel very mediocre as a whole, bruiser, tank or otherwise.

Neko Caitlyn1 votes

When a Talon with 150 magic resist and a spell shield can still 1 shot mages, thats clearly an issue with items.

Jaygo412 votes

You can't actually say this any other way.

You're wrong.

Sir Fuzzi2 votes

When Talon with a clearly-anti-Mage build can perform as an anti-Mage, I'd say items are about as on-point as they'd need to be.

What would be a problem is Talon one-shotting them and them only getting a chunk of his health bar in return.

This also doesn't ask, "Did Talon get the jump? Does his team have dragons? Is he in the lead? Did he blow his spellshield in the fight while embroiled in messing up his opponent, or did they juke it out early before they committed to the kill?"

Being mad about a loss is okay. Being mad about a loss and taking it out on champions, items and other factors is not okay because your argument gets pulled to pieces and you look like a blood idiot.

Besides, Talon is anything but bruiser. I feel like a well-played Xin Zhao or Jax would give you a conniption.

Tychusfindlay9192 votes

Oh I get it, you think this item is broken item 3053

LUL

Get out of here.

Ralanr1 votes

What item?

LordGeovanni1 votes

lets see then item 3001 item 3504 item 3174 item 3060 item 3144 item 3153 item 2033 item 1083 item 3812 item 1055 item 2140 item 1413 item 3114 item 3022 item 3184 item 3136 item 3155 item 3030 item 3146 item 3152 item 1041 item 1039 item 3025 item 3052 item 3151 item 3156 item 3139 item 3044 item 3046 item 3074 item 3107 item 3302 item 3027 item 3116 item 3181 item 3040 item 3053 item 3068 item 3097 item 3071 item 3072 item 1082 item 3075 item 3077 item 3748 item 3078 item 1053 item 3091 item 3090 item 3050 item 3157 item 3512 item 3814 item 3098 item 2301 item 3092 item 3812 Riots got quite the clean up campaign I avoided items that give you movement speed or other effects that allow you to nullify damage by dodgeing as a means for tanking. and avoided cdr as a means for more damage or the list would be longer. also items that give tankyness or damage through champions kits

bad arcade kitty1 votes

ad assassins currently can build way too much tankiness way too easy

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