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Make Items Adaptive

The Untouchable2·Jan 14, 2020·2 votes·1,019 views

So there are many runes right now that use this adaptive force thing in which the rune gives you either AD or AP depending on what you already have more of. So characters that have more AP such as Veigar will get only AP from a certain rune but characters such as Talon get only AD from the SAME rune since he has more AD.

This is a really cool idea to allow rune diversity so that different champs can use the same runes, it's not tied down to either an AD champ or AP champ, but both can use it.

Why not do this for items? Why not allow an item to grant 80 AP or 50-60ish AD depending on the champ? Maybe not all items you could do this with, but some you could and you could even come out with items specifically tailored to this idea allowing for more item diversity among different champions. For example I've watched Cowsep on stream build zhonyas on Master Yi many times simply because the active is really good. Why not make an item like that adaptive so that both AD and AP can use it? Riot please can we do this?????

14 Comments

xDogMeatxJan 14, 20202 votes

problems with adaptive items is that it will hide a champions weakness so well it becomes more meta then "normal" items therefore phases out the flock to race to get this exclusive "no matter what im getting my power spike" adaptive force with passives that nullify weaknesses.

The Untouchable2Jan 14, 20201 votes

{quoted}

problems with adaptive items is that it will hide a champions weakness so well it becomes more meta then "normal" items therefore phases out the flock to race to get this exclusive "no matter what im getting my power spike" adaptive force with passives that nullify weaknesses.

Maybe, but you could make it so that the non-adaptive items provide more raw damage and the adaptive items would provide more for utility/situational matchups. Doing that would make it so you wouldn't always go with adaptive items, but you make them more situational. It could work.

xDogMeatxJan 14, 20202 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Untouchable2,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7i7Zimo6,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2020-01-14T17:13:36.295+0000)

Maybe, but you could make it so that the non-adaptive items provide more raw damage and the adaptive items would provide more for utility/situational matchups. Doing that would make it so you wouldn't always go with adaptive items, but you make them more situational. It could work.

if they are pure defensive items that have minimum adaptive force with unique passives i can see it working but in a offensive tree form though its too strong.

The Untouchable2Jan 14, 20201 votes

{quoted}

if they are pure defensive items that have minimum adaptive force with unique passives i can see it working but in a offensive tree form though its too strong.

Not talking about pure defensive items, but damage items that provide less raw damage and more utility such as zhonyas, mercurial, maw, banshees etc. These items provide less damage then your pure damage items such as IE and rabadons but provide more utility in return. I'm thinking that maybe some of these damage utility items should be adaptive. Maybe even others could too. Ardent censer ( For Senna?)or protobelt are other interesting ones too. Edit: Sorry misunderstood what you said. Maybe you are right, but I think its worth discussing.

SaezioJan 14, 20202 votes

80 AP would translate to 48AD.

BTW no, adcs with zhonyas and mages with QSS is not fun.

If they do that, they better make defensive items adaptive too. So I can get a sunfire with MR instead of armor. Or Adaptive helm for armor and ad reduction. Or tabi with -10% magic damage and 20 MR or mercs with tenacity+ 35 armor.

All items are not designed for all champs. We might as well remove AP and change everything to AD. xD

The Untouchable2Jan 14, 20202 votes

{quoted}

80 AP would translate to 48AD.

BTW no, adcs with zhonyas and mages with QSS is not fun.

If they do that, they better make defensive items adaptive too. So I can get a sunfire with MR instead of armor. Or Adaptive helm for armor and ad reduction. Or tabi with -10% magic damage and 20 MR or mercs with tenacity+ 35 armor.

All items are not designed for all champs. We might as well remove AP and change everything to AD. xD

Right, thanks for the exact numbers.

I disagree. I think mercurial scimitar should be for AP users too. It's situational. If a talon wants to build early QSS against malzahar then he can, but it really delays his damage and ability to trade. So he might wait till later.

Why shouldn't AP be able to do the same? It wouldn't break anything. It would just allow APs to build QSS and have something to build into later on.

If adc has guardian angel then zhonyas should be fine too. That one is arguable though.

There is no need for armor and magic resist items to be adaptive, because u get these items depending on who you are facing not what you are. The actives and passives on these items are built for vsing those kind of champs. For example armor items provide Attack speed slow, you wouldn't need that vs AP characters. Sunfire cape is interesting idea. But not neccessary imo. Even qss you wouldn't want it to provide armor, because you want it vs AP champs. Same with boots. tabis passive for ad, you wouldn't want it to provide MR when it's made to vs AD champs. Also same thing for mercs. You are talking about completely changing the passives on those items. Not a good idea. Those are just fine. No changes for defensive items needed imo.

SaezioJan 14, 20202 votes

Your logic for why defensive items shouldn't be adaptive can be said the same about offensive items.

Just get Mercurial and weave in some autos 4head.

Just build only according to your opponent and not your own strengths 4head.

You want qss as Mage, I want spirit as a selfhealling tank vs AD enemy. It's the same thing, you want the item to be tailored to counter your enemy AND boost you at the same time, I want the item to be tailored to counter your champ and boost me.

How is this not the same as what you are asking?

The Untouchable2Jan 14, 20201 votes

{quoted}

Your logic for why defensive items shouldn't be adaptive can be said the same about offensive items.

Just get Mercurial and weave in some autos 4head.

Just build only according to your opponent and not your own strengths 4head.

You want qss as Mage, I want spirit as a selfhealling tank vs AD enemy. It's the same thing, you want the item to be tailored to counter your enemy AND boost you at the same time, I want the item to be tailored to counter your champ and boost me.

How is this not the same as what you are asking?

I disagree, defensive items are different. Usually you need both armor and magic resist for tanks, where as most champs prefer to only use AD or AP. All Tank champs can build into all pure defensive items and be viable, adaptive helm, spirit visage, frozen heart, thornmail etc. Whereas a Jarvan building zhonyas is jusy not viable but I think it should be.

RewtJan 14, 20202 votes

I mean..... I've built QSS on mages before. Does it delay my Power spike? Sure. But id rather delay my power spike than get fucking deleted making my lane even harder.

ZackTheWaffleManJan 14, 20202 votes

{quoted}

Adaptive helm for armor and ad reduction.

That would be broken as all hell because of the nature of AP vs AD

SaezioJan 14, 20201 votes

how many physical abilities are so spammable that it would actually be broken? Aatrox Q maybe...aphelios maybe... but it's not like these champs don't need a release valve anyway.. Garen E, heca Q, ezreal Q, darius passive, illa tent slam, nasus Q, qiyanna Q (these are off the top of my head) I feel like all these abilities have caused problems over the years and the champions would become a lot healthier and easier to balance if there was a good answer to their damage for tanks

P.S. I am not actually saying it should affect auto attacks, it would only affect AD abilities with less than 4 second CD, and you can play around it by not using the same spell for 4 sec.

ZackTheWaffleManJan 14, 20201 votes

{quoted}

P.S. I am not actually saying it should affect auto attacks, it would only affect AD abilities with less than 4 second CD, and you can play around it by not using the same spell for 4 sec.

Oh, I see what you mean. Nevermind.

SaezioJan 14, 20201 votes

Yeah lol 20% less auto damage for 4 sec +12% from tabis xD. That would bring tank meta in a fucking second. that would indeed be "broken as all hell"

Pika310Jan 14, 20201 votes

Adaptive was a mistake & has caused more balance issues than it's solved. The concept should be done away with, except for very limited, very specific instances. Also no, the answer isn't "just increase the damage from non-adaptive items!" This game's damage creep is already out of control, assassins are already anti-fun, we don't need everybody to become an assassin like DotA 2.

Conqueror broke Mord, Cass & many other mages. Death's Dance got universal spellvamp instead of just physical spellvamp, now we've got tanky ap assassins. Which is another issue: why do so many champions have dual-scaling? It isn't quite as abusable on a champ like Ezreal, but when you don't balance it carefully, you end up with Kai'sa, Akali, Kat, et cetera...

Should QSS build into an AP item? Probably so. Making Mercurial adaptive isn't the answer though, especially if that means it would become A THIRD lifesteal+spellvamp item alongside Gunblade & Death's Dance. Two items & Conqueror is already 1 item & a keystone too many.

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