yea if fizz cant 100-0 me level 4 that would be nice

4renDub·Jul 21, 2016·99 votes·6,625 views

pretty stupid how im ranged and get zoned off of him the second he is 3 cuz of him being able to dodge all my skills by one and then kill me right away

199 Comments

ModAcademy KaynJul 21, 201665 votes

I for one, remember the days, where Fizz only needed level 2 to 100--0 you.

DænariusKhølerinJul 21, 20167 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGJ-XKT9FPM

NautodayJul 22, 20162 votes

Can we just address that Thresh hook?

IS3E531E3F964391Jul 21, 201636 votes

just remove that bullshit DoT on his W

PopppyseedJul 21, 20163 votes

They tried, thats how AD tank fizz was born

NiaphimJul 21, 201628 votes

I thought AD tank fizz is (or was) viable because of his W dot that gives him sustained damage...

WTBeGirl100EUhrJul 22, 20163 votes

AD Fizz was a thing because the AA enhance portion of the W was the execute and was busted.

bloodybadger1Jul 21, 201622 votes

you mustve taken like 10 autos then

Maximum MordeJul 21, 20163 votes

Ignite, keystone, and minion damage from when you are forced to try to out trade him brings that down to more like 4-5 autos.

bloodybadger1Jul 21, 20167 votes

sorry, but that isnt cuz fizz is op...sounds more like you dont know how and when to trade with him

THE RlVER KlNGJul 21, 201617 votes

The bs thing about Fizz is that he has all the agency in lane. If you step up to CS past about level 3, he'll delete you. If you actually use skill and proper positioning to get a combo off as a mage or even fellow assassin, he hops away.

I don't care how balanced he is or what not he's just not healthy for the game or fun to play against.

DengedenJul 21, 20166 votes

He's melee, that makes him balanced.

Battlecast SonaJul 21, 201612 votes

any character who removes that amount of agency from their lane opponent is unhealthy, regardless of their range.

Fizz suffers from THE ZED EFFECT (TM) - his actual strength is shrouded by how un-fun it is to play against him. I get what Clockwork is saying - after a certain point it no longer really matters what YOU do, but it matters entirely how you respond to what FIZZ does. You have very little agency because if you walk up to cast spells he is just gonna e towards you and probably kill you, so you end up standing behind your wave trying to CS waiting for him to go in so you can (hopefully) outplay him.

It's pretty lame to play this way, and Zed (with a similar untargettable approach) has a similar problem. Fizz just has a slightly healthier laning phase because he can actually be bullied by certain champs, but it still feels pretty bad to be a large portion of the cast against Fizz in midlane.

iDarkWindJul 21, 201613 votes

if he dodged all of his abilities, don't you think you just missplayed? Fizz is strong, but 100-0 at lv4, and dodging all your abilities ( Q, W, E I suppose) it's strange. You could also tell us wich champion you were playing as.

KnoyleJul 21, 20166 votes

I find it hard to believe Fizz could dodge EVERY ability without blowing trickster and even then there is a window when he lands, so I think it is safe to say they blew a full combo in a short enough window to be completely avoided by one trickster.

In other words Fizz watched you outplay yourself.

HyperiönJul 21, 201613 votes

Funny, as a main mid, I hardly ever have problems with Fizz, because you are supposed to beat the living shit out of him before level 4.

QuortJul 21, 20162 votes

And with flask gone, it's actually a lot easier!

HyperiönJul 21, 20168 votes

Yup, you should almost never have a problem with fizz, his early game is so weak, people just don't know how to abuse him.

Battlecast SonaJul 21, 20166 votes

The problem is that Fizz can just sacrifice some cs for his weak early (and an experienced Fizz player should know what matchups to do this in) because eventually he WILL have the damage to oneshot you. It's really easy for Fizz to get to that point, item-wise, so having a weak early doesn't mean he won't do anything. Unless the Fizz player isn't actually experienced.

HyperiönJul 21, 20164 votes

If you dominate fizz, follow his roams, to keep him down, its a done deal pretty much, the most likely problem is that mid laners don't follow their lane if they go to gank, and thats where he shines. Also, by the point fizz can 1shot you with his combo post 6, if you are smart and get a zhonyas, there goes his kill potential, because he will have to just try to auto you to death.

Weasel KenseiJul 22, 20161 votes

{quoted}

If you dominate fizz, follow his roams, to keep him down, its a done deal pretty much, the most likely problem is that mid laners don't follow their lane if they go to gank, and thats where he shines. Also, by the point fizz can 1shot you with his combo post 6, if you are smart and get a zhonyas, there goes his kill potential, because he will have to just try to auto you to death.

Yeah, cause he couldnt possibly go in on you while its on cooldown, its against the rules or something... I hate when people say dumb shit of the tone of "all you gotta do is _______" when its much more complicated than that.

Fizz can close the gap in a heart beat, slap his ult up your ass, force you to use zon, back off, and have the ult up before your zon is of cooldown.

HyperiönJul 22, 20161 votes

It is too easy to play against fizz, what you just said is the classic Bronze immobile mentality... There is so much you can do to get away from fizz when he comes in on you.

Weasel KenseiJul 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It is too easy to play against fizz, what you just said is the classic Bronze immobile mentality... There is so much you can do to get away from fizz when he comes in on you.

so much... ok, elaborate. So much... please do tell this "so much."

LU Vanilla Rice Jul 23, 20161 votes

Well first off, Zhonyas is insanely valuable. And once you buy it, though it may have a longer cd than Fizz's combo, it can be used to get ahead of Fizz. As for the "so much", allow me to elaborate:

Fizz q makes him still prone to damage, and he will always appear behind you (or like, right where you are if he uses it at max range, which is highly unlikely). It's very easy to predict where he's going to be.
Dodging Fizz's ult is a pretty obvious option. His ult increases his damage and does a lot of damage itself, so yeah...
Building ROA and Abyssal as a mage is pretty strong. Building GA on adc is pretty good as well. Even a banshees can do wonders!
Exhaust is always a good option. You should exhaust him as he is doing his combo, and hopefully you dodged the ult part of it.
If you're playing someone with some form of mobility, use it when he is using his e and juke it.
I am also assuming you won't include "counterpick" as a viable answer, but it always is!
If you don't have mobility in mid lane, you most likely have CC, and if you land your CC mid-combo, then that's a pretty good option too.
Having teammates help you is pretty strong too.

I think these are just some ways render Fizz useless. And again, this is all assuming that Fizz has successfully made it out of laning phase while not being too far behind for his damage to mean nothing. As well, this is assuming you are somehow caught out of position to allow yourself to be caught by Fizz post-laning without any help from your teammates. AND we're assuming Fizz hasn't been poked down due to him being prone to harass even later game. Lastly, we're ALSO assuming Zhonyas is on cd, and you for some reason choose to misposition yourself during it's cooldown... But hey, maybe you're right; maybe there isn't a lot to do against Fizz.... :D

Weasel KenseiJul 24, 20161 votes

First Id like to point out the shitposter who I called out didnt say anything, typical.

On to this post, and I want to say Im trying to be respectful because I think your trying to help... but, that stuff youre saying isnt counterplay to a Fizz all in which he said their is so much you can do.

While Fizz Q makes him prone to damage, potentially, he probably hit you with it and did a big amount of damage himself.

Doge his ult, well thank you...

The rest of your bullet points are just basic counter measures to "Insert fed champion here." Basic babies first survival tips for a monster thats hard to deal with in a match.

To survive X build HP/Resist.

To survive X Exhaust them.

To survive X use your mobility to dodge if you have it.

To survive X counter pick them.

To survive X use CC on them.

To survive X get help from teammates.

See how that all has so NOT much you can do? Thats just very basic stuff for surviving against all manner of bullies. When it it comes to Fizz though, he sails above most of those counter measures because hes designed to. He can dash too you and away from you, he can dodge your abilities and damage you with the same one, he has 2 slows he doesnt need cause he can 100-0 you in the blink of an eye.

He does a ton more damage than many other mid laners of the same level, has a massive outplay kit, and at a certain point just turns into an Annie with her stun up, but you can see the bar or any other indicator. The only counter-play becomes stay the hell away and hope they dont have flash.

There is in fact very little you can do to stop more than 2 Fizz all ins, those 2 are zon and flash, and after that, you have to play passive, which means hes going to get a lot of CS, which means hes still going to reach a 100-0 point if the match goes long enough, and you will still be weaker than him in several cases.

Hes MEANT to stomp on people, and his kit is designed to do it, but people act like hes just any other champion and he dosnt have a super toxic kit.

LU Vanilla Rice Jul 24, 20161 votes

Yes I was trying to help. This is what I do: I generally try and defend assassins' power and state in the game, because they're not op, any of them, by any means. I was giving you tips on how to counterplay Fizz if he goes in on you later in the game, but that's not where Fizz's true counterplay lies. His real weakness is in the early laning phase. If you know how to harass and trade with him, Fizz should fall behind lane very quickly. If not, you either got very counterpicked, or didn't properly lane against him. When behind, while he may still do some damage, it is suppressed considerably. And at that point, even a mage should be able to duel Fizz.

ElikainJul 21, 201612 votes

I think that the main problem with him is because his Trickster deals considerable damage. Fiora's Riposte doesn't do that much and she levels it for that one CC that can hamper her while in Fizz's case, it's a part of the combo. Her Riposte also doesn't have a short CD and is magic damage + it scales from AP alone - a completely opposite stat of what she builds.

DarkSunSovereignJul 21, 201612 votes

Don't forget Vlad's pool, which has a super long cd and costs a ton of his HP

THE RlVER KlNGJul 21, 201616 votes

And can't go over walls

JunkοJul 22, 20161 votes

I mean Fizz's E doesn't have a huge AoE nor does it drain % max health and give it to Fizz.

Over InnsmouthJul 22, 20162 votes

Vlad's pool doesnt deal %max health and give it to Vlad either. It deals a small amount of flat magic damage and heals Vlad for 15% of the damage dealt.

It's not even enough to offset the cost of the spell for the vast majority of the time, let alone grant him net health gain.

THE RlVER KlNGAug 12, 20161 votes

Mastery 6 Vlad main can confirm ^^^^^^^

PannanjaJul 21, 20167 votes

The fact that his E is such a big part of his damage is a massive contributor to counterplaying him. If his damage was shifted to elsewhere in his kit he could E just to dodge things and gap close or escape without sacrificing damage. Because he has to E on top of you to kill you, he makes himself vulnerable (at least in theory) when he goes offensive. It is also his only wave clear, and if he uses it for that in lane it is easy to punish.

DengedenJul 21, 20167 votes

Imagine if Fiora had to use Riposte to waveclear though. Or if it cost 120 mana.

MelledoneusJul 21, 20163 votes

Except Fizz can CS by pressing W, autoing the minions, and letting the DoT kill them. An experienced Fizz player can do that, which ensures he almost never runs out of mana.

FutanariloverJul 21, 20167 votes

Regardless of whether he has counter play or not or whether he is op or not, the fact is that he is super unfun to play against, give even a slight lead to him and ur done with 0 chance of ever winning against him.

ScramrailJul 21, 20166 votes

The problem is that a mage will likely oom themselves and miss a good portion of cs trying to force Fizz off the wave early, only for the Fizz to out sustain the mage with corrupting potions 3 charges so that once he hits a fair enough power spike, which even happens pre-6, he gains the ability to at least stall out the lane. This allows him to get lane control once he hits 6 since his burst combo (even without using his ult) will likely be enough to force the mage to back completely or at best forfeit the wave until it gets closer to tower range so they can farm with some relative safety. And god help you if you burn your summoners, because at that point you aren't even really safe under tower anymore.

KanlarJul 21, 20165 votes

Save your important abilities until after he uses his trickster

101100111000Jul 21, 20168 votes

As if a good Fizz would simply use Trickster :^)

Maximum MordeJul 21, 201631 votes

If you save your abilities until he uses playful trickster, he doesn't need to use playful trickster cause he will outdamage you straight up.

Fizz is one of those designs that you don't outplay. Fizz loses by out playing himself, the control is not on his opponents side.

Obviously there are a few straight hard counters to him, but his design is still crap.

RichBeanJul 21, 20161 votes

Some parts do have to do with you out playing him.

His ult is a skillshot
His e landing can be dodged
Zhonyas People don't like 100-0 characters and tend to complain about them the most, it isn't bad design, they are assassins. I could look for an awesome video that explains why you feel this is bad design when it really isnt, if you want me to post it here.

Maximum MordeJul 21, 20168 votes

It isn't a bad design if we are judging whether the kit does what it is supposed to do. If we consider what it is supposed to do to be bad for gameplay, then yes it is a bad design. Game design, like art, is all about taste.

If you like Fizz's design, that's fine. I personally don't. I prefer designs where both parties have ample opportunity to react and respond to each other.

HaloDragonXJul 21, 20165 votes

yea if ryze can't 100-0 me with Tear and Cataylst that would be nice

MelledoneusJul 21, 20163 votes

I mean, that's what Ryze does... you just need to avoid getting into his zone of control, and if he ults to get to you, make sure you're with someone or a turret if you can't fight him. Ryze is deceptively squishy, so take advantage of his short range or do your best to avoid his damage. It's easier said than done, but see what tools you have at your advantage and use them.

My Waifu VanillaJul 21, 20162 votes

stand behind minions....congratulations he does no damage.

deadlychuckJul 21, 20165 votes

but but 100-0 burst damage is fun guys -rito

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

NatusfalconJul 21, 20164 votes

i second this man

NatusfalconJul 21, 20164 votes

i think the guy is saying that, as lux since that is what he was playing... fizz can walk striat up to him and if he tried to bind... then fizz would e land on him use his ingite w him and auto him then he would use his e to slow but fizz would q threw you out of it, using his sheild. fizz would get free autos cuz of his high ms and with that bs w damage, ive been threw the matchup where ive been 50 cs up all he had was a sheen and i would have most of my morello nomicon and boots and it was like level 5ish and he would 100-0 me with the thing i just said

QuephaJul 21, 20161 votes

The problem is that he has no way to efficiently farm in lane without eating tons of harass. The only way he can get into the game is by using his base damages without the help of gold to score a kill.

VekknaJul 21, 20165 votes

He farms just fine. It's his enemies who have to worry about farming safely. If you're in range to CS, you're in range of a Fizz all-in that results in a kill, burning flash, or a recall.

That starts at level 3 and only gets worse as he stacks CDR and a second invulnerability from his core items.