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Ideas for Kog Maw

doepel··3 votes·895 views

I reached this preseason mastery level 5 with Kog Maw and really enjoy playing him. In the games that I played him I got a pretty good view of why Kog Maw is in a bad spot right now.

Kog'Maws problems:

  • high mana costs Kog'maws early mana costs are very high, especially his q-cost. Late game costs are ok.
  • weak early game I think Kog'Maws weak early game is a fair trade-off for his amazing late game. But it is too weak right now.
  • his power spike comes very late Kog has a big power spike with guinsoos rageblade around 10 minutes and around mid game if he has botrk he has another powerspike . Then his next powerspike is around the 40 minute mark when he completed his infinity edge and bloodthirster. But most games are already decided by that time.
  • loses damage if he tries to kite Kog gets the most damage out of his W when he doesn't move. This makes him a easy target to land skillshots on. Kog needs to decide if he tanks the skills or loses damage and dodges the skill. Whatever Kog chooses he will always lose the trade. because if he dodges he can only get around 3 basic attacks on his enemy while the enemy who can cancel his basic attack animation also hits 2 attacks. So Kog deals 165% total ad + 6% max health dmg and the enemy 200% total ad damage in the trade. Together with Kogs squishiness he can only win early trades with a good support or if he hits his skillshots , which cost a lot of mana, when the enemy backs off. If Kog decides to stand still and doesn't dodge skillshots he gets even more damage or worse gets grabbed by a blitzcrank or tresh and dies. (Think of a early game short engage)

My ideas:

  • make Kogs Q refund half the mana if it scores a kill This gives Kog a reliable way to farm without coming in blitzcranks q-range. Makes his mana sustain better and gives him a safer laning phase.
  • Instead of making Kogs W double his attack speed make his attacks fire 2 projectiles which both apply on hit effects and deal 55% dmg. This change allows Kog to kite again which I think is the most important skill i to have if you are playing an immobile hypercarry and also makes him less team dependent. It will help his early trades while his late game stays the same.

Feel free to share your ideas and tell what you think of Kogs current state :3

18 Comments

Rebonack1 votes

The suggestion for his W would be... weird. It would reduce his ability to stack Rageblade and maybe Fervor of Battle, too. Can't recall if that thing stacks OnHit or OnAttack. But it would also be massively powerful. Given that Riot's express goal with Kog is to push the idea of 'immobile but high damage' I don't think going this particular route would be the way to go.

I'm more of a fan of moving the double attack speed/%HP damage portion of his W over to his Innate and giving the self-destruct the axe (hilarious but not fitting ability there). Then turn his W into a toggle that slows Kog by 75% when its on and drastically improve the attack range it grants. Maybe tack on some other effect as well. Instead of homogenizing Kog (less immobile, can kite like everyone else) instead emphasis both his strengths and weaknesses.

This would also let Kog chill behind his minion wave and last hit without having to waddle around in front of the caster minions to score CS. Two problems solved at once.

doepel1 votes

I really like the idea of sniper kog but it would need some balancing, and if you increase the range on his w too much kog will be able to outrange towers.

Also like the idea of moving the %dmg to his passive

Rebonack1 votes

{quoted}

I really like the idea of sniper kog but it would need some balancing, and if you increase the range on his w too much kog will be able to outrange towers.

Also like the idea of moving the %dmg to his passive

If out-ranging towers is a worry, then it could probably be set up not to give the bonus range against structures. Pretty sure Riot could code something like that with the new attack-range extending code they've been kicking around.

And it would be less sniper Kog and more immobile artillery platform Kog. Which is more or less what he's supposed to be.

Amusingly enough, I've always thought that Kog better fills the sniper fantasy with his Ult that Cait does.

Aevo 552 votes

I'm pretty sure Rageblade is on-attack for the 8 charges, but applies the AOE on-hit.

Spaceman5pff1 votes

I played him jungle with devourer. Was a blast.

AquariusGine1 votes

revert, dont fix what isnt broken

Rebonack1 votes

{quoted}

revert, dont fix what isnt broken

Old Kog (AD at least) has way too much overlap with Corki and there would be zero reason to ever pick him.

And Riot hates the old AP Kog.

Isn't going to happen.

Jorencice1 votes

Try the on-hit build. It's beast.

I've killed a tank Lee sin before he could even complete his q animation.

It's

Wits end Nashors tooth Boots Gunblade Gunisoos And GA

You do about 80% of your damage as magic damage with this build. So no one ever itemizes against you correctly.

doepel1 votes

I have tried most builds with Kog Maw and the one I loved most was:

Guinsoos Berserkers Botrk Bloodthirster Runaans Infinity edge / banshees

Late game you outheal enemy tanks and bruiser. But It takes a very long game to get this build :/

On hit kog is definitely my second favourite :)

Lephogam1 votes

I think the idea of Kog'maw's identity is to literally be a machine gun that his team has to defend. This is why when kogmaw reaches 5.0 aaspeed with w, he has to be able to land all his maximum autos potential /s if he wants to get value from his build. With this much attack speed, he wouldnt be able to kite very well. Honestly, the whole rework imo is not working very well for him atm.

doepel1 votes

I think the rework is fine if Riot can make his early game better. Most early game trades go like this:

The adc goes in, autos once uses a skill and autos again to proc thunderlords and then he backs off.

Kog maw just can't trade well against those opponents, he can hit his Q,E and W and get 3 basic attacks. Those 3 basic attacks deal less damage then the others adc 2 basic attacks. If Kog didn't activate his W he could have gotten 2 full dmg auto attacks which dealt more damage than when he activated his W. His W makes him weaker in those scenarios.

With my change kog maw fires 2 times 2 projectiles instead of 4 times 1 projectile the damage stays the same but if kog maw gets 3 autos with the W now he will get 2 times 2 autos which makes his W better for short trades. Over the full duration it would make no difference.

Lephogam1 votes

I agree that using W would weaken Kog'maws damage overall, since it reduces damage. But the purpose of W is to synergize with On-hit effects. If Riot was to implement your idea of 2 projectiles per auto, then it would simply be to op since it applies on-hit effects twice. For example, the double on-hit effect from Sated Devourer was indeed broken ever since its release, and has been nerfed multiple times in the past year. If sated only applies every 2nd attack, then imagine how broken it would be if Kog'maw applies on-hit effects every attack, with your change implemented into the game.

doepel1 votes

Applying on hits twice on every auto attack with 2.5 attack speed is the same as applying on hits once every auto with 5 attack speed. So the on hit damage should be the same.

Or is there something i missed ?

Kaeblen1 votes

I'd be happier with the idea to just change his W to a toggle ability.

also, I find that W is a great early game farming tool, since it doesn't deal reduced damage to minions.

Chroud1 votes

So let me get this straight.

1)Early game weak 2)Mid game sub par 3)Late game monster?

I dont play Kog much I wanted to start trying him as I have had some great ones end game in matchs on my team. But Sounds boring for the first 30 mins. Am I about right?

doepel1 votes

I would call it challenging ;)

But if you want to buy kog maw test him first in the weekly free. He is not for everyone.

Rebonack1 votes

{quoted}

So let me get this straight.

1)Early game weak 2)Mid game sub par 3)Late game monster?

I dont play Kog much I wanted to start trying him as I have had some great ones end game in matchs on my team. But Sounds boring for the first 30 mins. Am I about right?

At the moment Koggy's early game is weak, his mid game is okay, and his late game is fairly meh compared to most other ADCs. He lost his hyper-carry curve when Riot removed the AD ratio from his W. He works best in smallish skirmishes where he can wreck all enemy champions before his W runs out. Late game he tends to have more people gunning for him in addition to running out of W before he runs out of targets.

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