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Pantheon rework please!

Bootchen··67 votes·10,225 views

This is my 1st post sorry if someone already brought this up. I would love to hear other peoples feedback though.

I have been playing LOL for a few years now and its really the only game I play. Thanks for making an awesome game. I've played thousands of games and was Plat1 last season. I think I could have gotten to diamond if I went full try hard but that is not always fun. I understand the game pretty well and I have a bunch of problems with a champion...Pantheon. He was the 1st champion I spammed because I thought Spartans are so cool. After years of experience playing LOL I feel Pantheon needs a rework. I can't even stand to play him anymore.

He is always way ahead or way behind in games. I understand snowball champs but pantheon games are pretty much decided in the first 10 minutes of play. If you don't have a big lead by then hes useless.

Excuse my language but Pantheon is a "mana whore" and theirs nothing to do about it. A number of champions in LOL are "mana whores" but every other champ has an item that they can build to make up for this. AP champs can go tear, ROA, morellonomicon, lichbane. Champs like Ezreal, Jayce, GP also can go tear or Tri. Supports and tanks have Frozen heart/iceborn gauntlet. Pantheon might just be the only champ that does not have a logical mana item to build that needs it.

He has no skill shots. Its hard to outplay someone when your champion has no skill shots. He either dominates lane opponents or gets crushed by them.

Pantheon's ult is inconsistent. Shen, TF, TK, Ryze, and Galio all have roaming ults and are much more useful/consistent. Pantheons ult takes so long to channel that it is total luck sometimes when using it. It's hard to make picks and easy to suicide with because the channel is so long.

With the Meta the way it is Pantheons ult is not that useful toplane. Many times after ulting I've returned to lane just to get destroyed because I lost so much exp from roaming. Since Pantheon does not have good wave clear its almost impossible to not fall behind after roaming. Pantheon's ult would be good as a jungler but his clear speed is way to slow to keep up with meta junglers.

Lastly Pantheon has no way out of fights. Once you go in its kill or be killed(In team fights it's usually be killed), he has no way of running away like all other melee champions do. Unlike tanks that have sustain and can take a beating Pantheon usually just dies in teamfights once he goes in. I find it kind of ironic that the champion with a shield is not that good at blocking damage. Also anyone who saw 300 knows Spartans excel in team fights....Pantheon not so much. If you play Pantheon you get use to seeing the grey screen.

I totally agree champions should have strengths/weaknesses and one champion should not have it all but Pantheon I feel is far from balanced. Please please please rework Pantheon. I want to play him again so bad, he just feels terrible to play the way he is. Sorry for rambling on but this has been bugging me for sometime now and I really want to play him again. Thank you for reading my long message, I really do appreciate it.

55 Comments

Ralanr23 votes

I agree, he needs a full VGU imo.

Personally I think he should get a weapon swap ability to better emphasize mastery of combat.

Cremepie13 votes

I can see it now. Pantheon master of the spear, sword, shield, axe, fist, and oven.

Sheen Estevez6 votes

baguette

Gaming Spider191 votes

to be said in a french accent : HUH HUH HUH!!!!!

Ultîma2 votes

That would be... really badass.

DonGiovanni1 votes

Already has one: his auto attacks are spear jabs, his q is spear throw.

Ralanr5 votes

But he should draw a short sword after throwing his spear.

SpecterVonBaren4 votes

Honestly.... that's not a bad idea. Increase his auto range, make his Q a skillshot and make it so when he's thrown his Q he loses auto range and has to either pick up the spear again or wait X seconds to get it back.

Bootchen2 votes

I think a weapon swap is a really good idea! I'd also like to see his shield be more useful. Thanks for the input

Mossimen1 votes

His passive need a complete rework, maybe put his sield on his w/e, making it block like idk fiora w (has alot of potential)

TzQGRUST391 votes

Great Idea! The first picture that pops into my head is Talion from Shadow of Mordor. He has a Sword, Dagger, and Bow each that are equally emphasized in game.

Frodo97171 votes

Totally the best idea ever

Valek Mythos1 votes

Agreed, weapon swap would be brilliant. I reckon make him a juggernaut. He's got that warrior spirit, that; "I'll keep fighting before I go down" feel. I too feel he'll need a thing or two to keep up with upcoming champions and play styles.

I believe his ult should be a knockback. But if he's getting a complete rework there should be some sort of weapon swap mechanic.

Pantheon

DonGiovanni15 votes

{quoted}

Lastly Pantheon has no way out of fights. Once you go in its kill or be killed(In team fights it's usually be killed), he has no way of running away like all other melee champions do.

Spartans don't run away.

http://img.memecdn.com/SPARTA_o_92695.jpg

Bootchen1 votes

lmao that is actually true. It would be nice though if Panth had some sort of sustain or an ability so he doesnt just get 1 shot in team fights. Thanks for the input ^^^

Requiemsfire7 votes

It feels miserable to lose against a pantheon and it feels miserable to lose as Pantheon, He is a total feast or famine diver where the only upside is that he can easily rack up an early lead and dominate lane. In long fights Pantheon simply isn't feasible due to mana costs, lack of defensive steroid(Not counting aegis protection) sustain or even decent waveclear abilities leading him to simply being forced to recall rather than being able to capitalize on objectives by himself. Lategame comes and he transforms onto a stun bot. At best Pantheon gameplay wise is a barebones diver who does the bare minimum of what he needs to.

Blåbæret1 votes

Well, nerf his laning then we can talk buffs.

Requiemsfire2 votes

Not talking about Buffs, or nerfs, either would be tragic one way or the other. He needs a rework to make him less binary and more reliable at different stages of the game without making it a total gamble on the early game.

nachocheeseeeee5 votes

Pantheon was the first champion I mained too. I agree that he needs a rework. He is too linear kit wise. Also giving him a late game would be nice. Since he is the Aspect of War he should feel lIke a badass general who leads the march. Maybe making him more of a dueling champion like a Jax or Fiora would make sense. Maybe getting rid off his ult and giving him a new fighting ult would be nice.

Pentapod5 votes

Panth was the first champ I bought and maimed. Really enjoyed playing him but I felt he came up short on the "Aspect of War" motif. Very cool thematically but not executed fully. I do love the spartan look however. It feels right.

One thing I think would be really cool on Panth would be a Stance ability. Kind of like a toggle ability. Toggled on, Panth gets in a defensive stance putting up his shield, taking reduced damage and blocking skill shots for people behind him, similar to Braum but in a much smaller area. While he is in the stance, he moves much slower and has reduced attack range but can still use abilities. He can be in the stance indefinitely. When toggled off after being in the stance, he will stun everyone near him in a small aoe with his shield for a brief period. It then goes on cooldown.

I also think he should be able to incorporate a short sword of some sort. Spartans were not solely known for their spear prowess. Spears were not strong at close range so if he could swap weapons, that would be very cool.

These are just some ideas I have had after playing him for years and I think they would work really well if incorporated correctly! Thanks for reading! Leave a comment if you like. Would love to see Riot use the toggle stance ability in some manner on him.

Bootchen3 votes

I really like the toggle idea similar to nid, jayce, elise, rek. They could make his ult offense/defense or spear/sword or even a mixture of both. Just a thought, thanks for the input

Pentapod2 votes

Thanks for the response! The stance I'm referring to is less Nidalee and Jayce "changing stance/abilities" and more of a Braum and reworked Galio hybrid "crouch and stand up" ability. You get the personal Braum shield that can block abilities for themselves and probably only 1 person behind them but also the slowed defensive stance of Galio. However, unlike Braum, you don't go faster with the ability toggled on and the shield up and, unlike Galio, it is not channeled so it can be up indefinitely. Once the ability is toggled off, you get the signature Panth stun at close range but it is more AOE instead of single target and he does not leap so it isn't as large of a range. Then it would go on cooldown, probably a longer than normal one. Out of the stance, he is still fast, strong and quick as a killer much like current Panth. I was inspired by watching the historical battle strategies of the Spartan warriors and I noticed their fighting style was composed of two main phases: the first being the exposed, fast fighters which 300 really shows. The second being a very defensive squat like position, usually accompanied by other warriors on each side very close to each other. They moved very slowly but very deliberately. Since League has become such a speed game, it would be nice to see a historical fighting style be incorporated that forces the other team to anticipate your slow movements rather than fast ones..

Tusutaki4 votes

it doesnt help that they keep needlessly nerfing him.

  • 1st was not having his shield passive block Drag's attacks when he was seeing play in the jungle due to him being able to get Dragon early. Meanwhile Warwick is able to solo 3min Drag at lvl2 and other champs who can easily solo it early.

  • 2nd which I consider the worst is nerfing his E AD bonus ratio from 1.2 to 1.0 and his base by 40 at max rank. Also see no reason why they shouldnt revert his E tick back to 5 times instead of 3 anymore for Black Cleaver. If Garen is allowed to proc BC fully in quick succession ON TOP of his additional 25% armor shred, why cant Panth?

  • 3rd was removing his mana refund when canceling his Ult.

  • 4th was adjusting Essence Reaver to be more ADC focused. I liked the original Essence Reaver when it gave +50 AD, 10% life steal, 10% cooldown reduction, and basic attacks restore mana equal to between 2% and 8% of the physical damage dealt, based on your missing mana. I found a lot of use for the likes of Jayce and Pantheon. Would love to see that version come back as another item.

I used to play him mid all the time but now I cant find a reason to play him at all in general. He cant waveclear without building a lot of AD because of E's dmg reduction to non champs and he cant tank without building tank. Its like the game itself is actively working against him. Reworked Galio is now a much better version of Pantheon and he can deal damage without building damage.

Tusutaki3 votes

I dont know why this has been getting downvotes. I mean if you "disagree" with it at least refute it or explain why so.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku3 votes

He was the 1st champion I spammed because I thought Spartans are so cool.

:o pray for ur soul.

I can't even stand to play him anymore.

a glimmer of hope

He has no skill shots. Its hard to outplay someone when your champion has no skill shots. He either dominates lane opponents or gets crushed by them.

no need skill shot to ouplay someone... but he would be less toxic (i mean, when u aren't panth) with skill shot.

Pantheon's ult is inconsistent. Shen, TF, TK, Ryze, and Galio all have roaming ults and are much more useful/consistent. Pantheons ult takes so long to channel that it is total luck sometimes when using it. I

yeah, hard after early game.

Lastly Pantheon has no way out of fights. Once you go in its kill or be killed(In team fights it's usually be killed), he has no way of running away like all other melee champions do

He's a Divers, its desired.

Also anyone who saw 300 knows Spartans excel in team fights....Pantheon not so much. If you play Pantheon you get use to seeing the grey screen.

They don't want to make him a simple spartan. they wan't to make a god like.

Anyway... they already planned to rework him

SirΤeemο3 votes

pantheon is super good at the current season... i don't see an actual reason for a rework.. except the fact that you lost miserably in 1 game against him

DonGiovanni1 votes

Here, I upvoted to balance it out. Don't know why you got that downvote. I guess someone really lost hard to pantheon :D

SirΤeemο2 votes

eh.. a little bit of a nerf would be good on pantheon .. because he is too strong.. i don't really see why this guy "CAN'T SEE" a strong point on pantheon.. "no skills shot" while he has Q-E , + aoe + stun + ctr + super passive + epic ultimate

DonGiovanni2 votes

Now now, this sure comes from a Teemo main :)

I don't think Pantheon is particularly strong right now, he has never been that strong. He trades very strong early game for very poor late game. Pantheon is meant to be a low-skill champion, that is fun to play and easy to master for new players. For veteran players, on the other hand, he has a very linear skill set. I played him for two seasons in jungle and top, just gets boring at some point.

SirΤeemο1 votes

and what's your point? teemo is fun.. i am not a professional player so i don't play for money... so i don't play zed etc... and still..what's your point ?

Looknook2 votes

Pantheon was my first main too. I used to really like him, and back when mana pots were a thing I would buy at least as many of those as health pots when I backed (like you said he has mana issues, I also tried the old essence reaver on him once or twice to try and help).

I would love to have Pantheon be more of an embodiment of war. If they wanted to take inspiration from real life Greeks for that I think that would be great. Maybe give him a longer than normal melee auto range since Greek spears were 8ft long originally, then 15 ft long after Alexander the Great.

It should also be noted that Greek soldiers were primary Hoplites which were HEAVY Infantry. Slow to a fight, but nearly unbeatable with their phalanx formation. Now obviously a phalanx isn't gonna work in League but, Pantheon probably shouldn't be one of the fastest people in the game.

There are a lot really interesting ways they could go about redoing Pantheon if they wanted to stay somewhat faithful to real life Hoplites.

Standgrounding1 votes

Now obviously a phalanx isn't gonna work in League

Swain reworked into an ACTUAL Noxian Grand Commander?

Pantheon probably shouldn't be one of the fastest people in the game

So, a juggernaut? I could imagine him holding a larger shield and probably longer spear, blocking an AA on each of his 4 spells, and 30% of spell-buffed AAs(Draven Q, Caitlyn's Headshot, Ashe passive) damage is reduced by 40% until he is below 50% hp(the shield shatters). His Q could eat a little less mana, and W would work until below 50% hp(with AD/HP ratio and physical damage now). I'd like to see him being able to move around when he is in his E, just like Garen who can just walk and spin. Could be something between his old E and Cammille's W. And R would be a Galio ish ult but on targetted enemies.

It Hertz When IP2 votes

[{quoted}](name=SMURF HENEKTON,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6tp1wOEQ,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-03-31T20:41:43.414+0000) And R would be a Galio ish ult but on targetted enemies.

So..... Nocturne's ult. Only better.

Sheen Estevez1 votes

not really better but pretty much the same tbh

Standgrounding1 votes

That can be worked to adjust his ult damage and cooldown, so yeah, pretty similiar ult, but with aoe. And maybe a knockup?

Looknook1 votes

No matter what changes are made he needs to lose his current W. Having a targeted, undogable stun/gapcloser is a little much. It is probably the strongest single ability on his kit.

Otherwise I think small changes to his kit would be nice, mostly just room for skill expression.

Gamer Gallade2 votes

I absolutely hate Pantheon as a champion as of his current kit for so many reasons

But as a character I really like him as he is the literal god of War unlike Aatrox.

Pantheon is one of the most brain dead champions and is an absolute trash champion due to his no counter play is so focused on nuking one target and then proceed to get raped by the entire team.

He is so bad and yet so broken its not even funny how dumb his kit is.

I would say more but i think a video would help out on how good/bad Pantheon is.

I just flat out have facing him especially when he has Ignite.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQSDYoviC7Y

He is not fun to play against and hope he gets a good rework soon. Hopefully sooner then expected.

Bootchen2 votes

I couldn't agree more. Great vid btw. Until today I thought I was the only one that didn't like panths kit and felt a rework is needed. Thanks for the input

Raiyza1 votes

Eh Pantheon wanted to be a baker anyway.

Wuju Hooligan1 votes

If this happens, they're going to make his Q a skillshot. What's the point in playing League if you have to aim?... :)

Wind Whistler1 votes

Don't worry, Riot has already expressed plenty of interest in removing another champion from the game. Expect it sometime next year, you sick, twisted demon.

elon wątroba1 votes

Honestly they should change both his q and e and turn his w into skillshot. I hope they won't change his ability to jungle. I have climbed to plat using mostly him in a jungle last season.

The Mantheon1 votes

Pantheon was my first main and still is my favorite champ in the game.

IMO the only thing he needs is a VU and maaaaybe some slight adjustments, sure hes not the must fun champ to play against, after all he is THE lane bully, however, he has weaknesses as any other champion.

In my opinion theres not too much you could change about him, i mean, not unless they change drastically how he plays, his kit already fits his thematic perfectly, his passive, E and R are way to iconic to the champ to change, i guess making his Q a skillshot of sorts would help with the lane bully problems, W could maybe use some change but i dont know what tbh but a point and click stun is really powerfull in his kit, what you dont want to do however is giving him sustain or mobility.

Still, i really dont think he needs a full rework, he could just use some tweaks here and there, if his W wasnt point and click, or be conditional of some sorts i think he would be perfectly fine.

I kinda like the weapon swap ideas from some of the comments here tho, however i think someone like Jax could use that kind of master of all weapons gimmick better, Pantheon is basically the God of War in the lore and i would say is a safe bet to think he is based on Ares, the greek god of war who was always portrayed with a spear and shield, so they should stick with that c: [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

SnowFall1 votes

Wow, I had the exact same thought a while ago and posted it, only then boards were against any pantheon reworks, even Riot saying panth is fine. Good luck there. I lost about 14th games as him in a row back then, fed or not, Riot just laughed saying "git gud". How can I be with such a binary and limited champ that depends entirely on luck of how events unfold?

GrReaper961 votes

While pantheon is pretty linear and direct, its not like he is in a particularly bad spot. He could use a rework, but plenty of older champions Nunu Urgot Rammus Jax need it much more before him, so i dont see it coming any time soon

Gamer Gallade1 votes

those 4 champions are deserving of a rework.

Good news is that Urgot is already on the works after Evelynn

Rammus might get changed in the MSUD to a small degree until the find a new way of making him better.

Nunu is getting a new passive and will have the same temporary solution like Rammus.

And Jax could use a VU and small changes on him, Jax imo is not a horrible champion but could use some fixes.

BrosephTripp1 votes

To rework Pantheon into less of a binary champion whos strongest appeal is early game power at the cost of lategame ability, we have to break down what we as the playerbase want him to be instead. The majority of players are disgruntled with his lack of outplay opportunity in his kit, and how it takes away from the mystique of his essentially god of war feel. In addition, his feast or famine playstyle leaves players feeling like they've lost the game once they fall behind, or opponents feel like they can't recover once he's begun his snowballing. To adjust this overall, we need to look at his kit and adjust for more outplay potential, rear back some early game power for more lategame play, and ensure he overall feels exciting to play and looks like a god of war doing it.

BrosephTripp1 votes

Hiis Q poke is in line with other champions and isn't unhealthy gameplay, but I recommend something different. I'd trade out the spear for a sword as well. A suggestion for his Q is maybe a weapon thrust that hits target enemy and enemies behind in a line similar to Yasuo's Q, except it isnt treated as a basic attack. This could adjust early game power, reward skilled play, and provide improved lategame contribution for his team. (It would also look cool to see him thrust a weapon so hard it goes through his enemies). His W is generally agreed to be his most powerful and least counterplay ability for most it seems. I would recommend doing a sort of swap with his passive. His new W would give the current shield passive every 4 attacks, and give it an active to increase attack speed and movespeed by a percentage for a time. This gives him more clear highs and lows for players to utilize and play against. And gives him better jungling ability. His E is something I would change heavily. Currently this new Pantheon would have some poke and sustain, so lets give him some utility here better round out his kit so far. I recommend a combat roll similar to Vayne's vault where upon hitting an enemy Pantheon cripples them with his spear slowing them and reducing their armor by a percentage temporarily, and dealing bleed damage over time, on a moderate cooldown. This allows for mobility, gives him solid cc, powerful ganks, strong dueling and an escape when he needs it. To finish off his abilities, for his R I think that he should completely ditch the old map hopping for something else. So far we have poke, durability, mobility, and cc. His new ultimate would passively give him a good amount of tenacity and he could activate it to launch a spear skillshot with range that spans about midlane that ignores increasingly more percent armor the lower the enemies health is. It would have charges that refill over time similar to corki's ultimate. This would let him pick off fleeing enemies, engage from a distance and look like a spartan who knows how to wield a spear. For his passive I'd give him a percent of his mana regained per champion kill or assist or large or epic jungle monster slain to give him long teamfight potential and jungle clear

cheenis boosh1 votes

Yeah, it sure is hard to outplay people with a champion that has no skillshots.

I stopped reading after that. To be honest that's probably the most stupid thing I've ever read.

Critz4days1 votes

anyone else upset about this stupid rework im kinda disappointed in how they are going to ruin pantheon and make him more like a riven/yas ability champion

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