Can a support CS when the ADC recalls?

K1ng3hitt··14 votes·10,236 views

Typically, I don't receive any hate when I grab some CS when the ADC recalls, or when the lane is pushed to our tower. But then sometimes I will have an ADC that freaks the hell out when I last hit a couple minions that were about to die to the wave or tower anyways. When asked why, I usually get ignored or simply told that Sup doesn't get CS... I am fairly new, and would like to know if I am actually doing anything wrong here. Keep in mind we are talking about maybe 4-5 CS by the time the ADC gets back to lane. Like I said, these are just last hits.

49 Comments

EndlessSorcerer25 votes

Yep. There is not point in the gold going to waste.

However, try not to push the wave into a disadvantageous position when doing so.

Disembark2 votes

Here's the thing though: there are VERY FEW instances where the support should just be sitting in lane and last hitting while the ADC is in base.

Usually the support should recall together - making them both spike and reset together and prepped for another all in. Or holding the wave out of tower while your adc comes back, and then you reset once again both reseting at similar times.

Or you can look to place deep vision in their jungle, or roam to another lane.

It is almost a complete waste of time to sit there and absorb 2 last hits over the course of 20 seconds instead of warding/reseting/roaming.

xAcidik1 votes

This is a horrible generalization I think. What if you just got your ADC a kill, but they got chunked? You're still relatively healthy, with no significant item to buy, and backing would freeze the lane in the enemy's favor? Shove the lane. What if the lane is frozen in your lane? Maintain the freeze, get the few CS.

Disembark1 votes

"very few instances where its good". Then you name a few of the instances where it wouldn't be bad. And then say I'm wrong.

Lol.

xAcidik1 votes

Except the instances I named are present at least a third of the time. lel

Daddy Ants13 votes

Only CS if it would go into the tower otherwise.

If you have to clear out a few minions and then tank the wave outside the turret for your ADC then do so.

Done251 votes

{quoted}

Only CS if it would go into the tower otherwise.

If you have to clear out a few minions and then tank the wave outside the turret for your ADC then do so.

That's a very good way to eat a lot of minion damage and possibly get yourself killed by the enemy. Especially if you're playing a frail champion.

200220121 votes

So is playing a melee assassin, yet there are techniques to make it work.

Done251 votes

{quoted}

So is playing a melee assassin, yet there are techniques to make it work.

What?

200220121 votes

Read what I replied to, it doesn't make sense without it.

Done251 votes

{quoted}

Read what I replied to, it doesn't make sense without it.

I said that tanking minion damage as a frail 10 armor 400 HP Sona is a good way to lose a lot of life. What does that have to do with, what I assume are, mid lane assassins?

200220121 votes

The fact that by playing an assassin you're already allowing the enemy team to blow you up, yet it is very viable because of the way its played.

xAcidik1 votes

Its called freezing the wave. You tank the wave for a second or two, make sure it doesnt crash to tower. It helps you preserve the wave, making more minions survive for your ADC, making it difficult for the enemy ADC to CS, and forcing the enemy ADC to be pushed up to expose them to a gank. It's the best wave management tool out there, and if you can do it, you should ALWAYS do it.

200220121 votes

You should tell that to him, he thinks it's a bad strategy 😂

Abramagician7 votes

I do whatever I feel like when adc is gone. Dobby is free elf.

Poop Jelly6 votes

I support main and usually if the ADC recalls, I last hit the very last hit if I can while also asking if he wants the lane pushed or not (usually if the ADC recalls he should want the lane to freeze, but still ask just in case).

But yeah, the safest option is to try your best and attack only when the minion is going to be very dead.

xAcidik1 votes

Remember, when in laning phase, the support is the boss. Most of the time, the support is the better champion and has a stronger impact on the lane. They choose where the wave is positioned, when to go for trades, when to look for engages, and usually, a kill is made almost entirely by the support if it happens in lane.

Imperial Pandaa5 votes

Technically a support can cs all they want, as farm doesn't belong to anyone.

With that said though, I feel a support should cs only when necessary. Last hitting when adc is gone and you can't freeze safely, charges on the Relic item line (let me kill the cannon with it!), helping clear a wave to dissuade a party under tower (enemy jg and mid coming down to dive), or if you need just a smidge of gold for an item.

Boatwhistle2 votes

It doesn't belong to anyone no, but if the support slows down the progress of carries scaling then because they benefit way less from gold they are disadvantaging their team to one that does do this. This wasn't randomly decided, there is good reason for this. An exception is something like lux or brand who can do really well with the gold too but that's not a support csing freely... that's a mage highjacking the lane from the ADC and denying the team an actual support. Works so long as the enemy team doesn't abuse the resources being spread thinner per person amongst yours or abuses your team having less utility to work with.

Imperial Pandaa2 votes

Which is why I said what I did in the second part of my post.

Boatwhistle1 votes

Yes but that first part is such a terrible thing to open with anyway as advice. Thanks to pyke and increased prominence of mages highjacking the role more and more I see "supports" with as much cs as the ADC while we already have an assassin or mage. As a result more often I am seeing ADC's struggle to contribute significant dmg as the game goes on. I also see people struggle to get sufficient waves and xp in games because the "supports" are effectively zoning the other carries by pursueing waves sooner, even if its far sooner then when the waves gets safely close enough to an ally tower to be farmed by immobile carries.

I don't care about your second part cause the first thing you said is something I find so detestable and I'm a support main, on actual supports.

Imperial Pandaa3 votes

It wasn't advice, it was a statement of fact that answered the question in the title. My advice was the second part.

Whether you or I find it detestable doesn't actually matter. As for your "I'm a support main, on actual supports" the champs don't make the support, the style the player uses. Don't lump someone who got stuck with supp taking Lux and farming, with someone who actually plays Lux support and zones enemies off.

Boatwhistle2 votes

Finding it detestable matters to me, its the reason I posted at all to you, duh. May not matter to you or anyone else but its still extremely relevant to this scuffle. Zoning is a mid lane control mages job, they don't magically become something totally different by occupying a different spot on the map. As in lux is still being lux, a long range bursty mage, no matter where she is doing it with what resources.

Supports have kits where each part is more a benefit to facilitating team members success rather then their own. They do very well on little gold and also benefit way less then other champions would on a lot of gold. These are supports, not one such as Lux that are totally self sufficient to carry a game and others benefiting form her root and shield(a pathetic amount of team oriented kit to designate her a support) is secondary to the amount it benefits her and her natural combo of damage she will do thanks to them.

Thresh, lulu, sona, allistar, rakan, Leona, blitz crank, ect. are champions whose kits are way less effective being used solo then if they have team members to utilize them, as in their contribution is way higher with more people around. Lux and brand can out put the same effect regardless of whether or not they passively assist others. You do realize lux in bot lane does what lux in mid lane does minus csing right? There is no other reason, "support" as a class isn't famously noted in the history of games as being "those that don't cs", like seriously think about it.

Imperial Pandaa2 votes

No, it doesn't matter, not really. It is a statement of fact. That doesn't mean you have to like it, but until Riot forces a META then it remains that cs doesn't belong to any spexific person/role. First you seemed to think this was my advice/stance and it wasn't. I have tried to explain that my stance is CS only when necessary.

Apparently we have different views on how support works. Tank/engage supports should stand within threat range to zone enemy of under fear. Poke supports do similar. Zoning isn't exclusive to mid mages. Kit alone doesn't make someone a support and we see it other times with thing like Zilean/Morgana/Lulu mid. Granted he has been nerfed, even fucking Rakan was mid for a bit. Just recently I played a Leona Jungle game, and you know what? It actually worked pretty damn well. Cow jungle has been a thing in the past.

Every champ you named I have played in a solo lane before and did fine. Some work better than othersb but that can be said about anything. Some champs are designed with team interaction in mind, and some are not.

Now, I have given the OP both a factual answer (CS belongs to no one) and an opionated answer (only do when necessary). If you want to talk about what does or doesn't constitute a "support" then I encourage you to create your own post for that discussion.

Illabethe5 votes

Depends if you have a item 3303 or not. If you have it, unfortunately, you're at the whims of what your adc does or doesn't do, until it's complete. If not, CS away.

Personally I hate the quest stipulation, because it's one of the things that have shoved most actual support enchanters into a whole where no one plays them. Mages use Spellthief a lot better, and Nomad's has been nerfed so much that it's an inefficient item on support champs.

Troll Slaiyer4 votes

for every time u get flamed, subtract 1 minion from their wave.

K1ng3hitt2 votes

Thanks everyone for the replies. So what I've gathered is only do it when the CS will without a doubt, go to waste. I can honestly say I probably deserved some of the flak I got in some cases because I was under the impression that I could CS more than that and probably pushed the wave when i didn't need to. So thanks for the help everyone.

Moonfall Saber2 votes

Tell them to f themselves and then take all there farm. They are toxic

Kalienor2 votes

Can a support CS when the ADC recalls?

This shouldn't happen often as you'd better try to match your recalls with theirs. If you lose synchronization, first thing to do is manipulating wave so adc loses minimum cs. That mostly means tanking the wave and slowing it down by pulling it aside to prevent it going under tower. You can also prepare your own recall by crashing the wave into opponent tower, making enemy adc lose cs and bouncing back the wave so your own adc can safely farm alone while you're on your way back. Apart from that, last hitting is allowed, regardless of adc's presence, as long as you're 100% certain he won't get the creep. BUT consider not doing this if you're playing in a low elo environment and you can see your adc gets angry: if he doesn't understand what you're doing, you might upset him and incidentally make him miss a lot of cs in the future as he won't be able to focus as well as usual. It's annoying but hurting a player's principles will completely cancel all the benefits of doing what is supposed to be the best theoretical move.

5050BS2 votes

I CS when Im alone in lane or the ADC SUCKS at CSing. I also play Zyra so gold on me is good.

DiscWizard11 votes

actually zyra doesnt really scale well with items, her dmg doesnt go up very much after rylais+liandrys

Boatwhistle1 votes

Only last hit minions that would have died during the ADC's absence anyway, as in when they are right about to die not "they will probably die". You are lowering your teams overall power if you take resources that should go into someone with better scaling then the supports, on top of that you also deny the ADC xp otherwise putting them behind.

There are other exceptions, whether I play adc or support sometimes the waves needs shoved fast and that's more important overall like needing to back, deny enemy cs, or do objectives such as the enemy tower or dragon. When I am ADC I will ping for such assistance, if I am support I only do so if asked. Wave management is important and that's the ADC's job since they are the one primarly csing anyway. Supports need to apply as much pressure as possible and punish mistakes to make plays, both need to ward though obviously this is more up to the support. Lastly if you need to save a tower then obviously don't wait for any allies to come can clear it... don't even try to last hit just protect your tower ASAP.

So again yes, but as little as possible being what would have gone to waste anyway.

Dancing Foxx1 votes

Sometimes I last hit if things were going to be killed by the tower, but i might not always depending on if I'm working on finishing my quest since CSing delays finishing quests.

PhearBunny1 votes

It depends. Was there a 2v2 that went down, and youre the only one left? Are you capable of pushing hard enough to crash the wave onto the enemy tower and force them to lose CS? If so, the answer is yes. Take the CS. If the answer is no, and the wave is headed to your tower. Stall the wave and if possible don't let it crash on your tower. Last hit, but don't push.

RISE Shlack1231 votes

Only do so if the CS would die to the tower, in most cases. The main reason for being careful about what minions you take is the effect you'll have on the wave. If the wave is at your tower taking tower shots, then it will be a reset wave. So if the ADC can't pick up those minions, feel free. Just last hit them, though, and take care not to clear them too quickly. You'll want the wave to park as close to your tower as you can get so your carry can get back to lane and farm relatively safely.

If you just had a 2v2, then it's a little different. You'll want to try to push to their tower, but only if you are reasonably certain you can fully shove. If you can't shove, you could end up giving the enemy carry a favorable freeze when they get back to lane.

Whether or not a support takes CS all comes down to wave control.

Titanium701 votes

Well, theoreticly speaking yes.

If your ADC is base you shuld lasthit CS or 'fix the wave' in your favor.

pratical:

This situation shouldn't occur. You should only ever stay on lane if you do NOT have to recall once your carry get back! If you do, your Carry get zoned and poked into oblivion while you're gone.

Not matching recalls is one of easiest ways to loose an otherwise winning lane and the main problem if you get an inexperienced supp as ADC.

Spacesuit Spiff1 votes

It's one of those things where technically taking the cs is optimal, but you have to weigh that benefit against the chance of a mouthbreather freaking out at you for it and playing worse as a result.

Last Breàth1 votes

Depends on the state of the minion wave. If its slowly pushing towards you shouldn't touch it, you can thin the wave by getting some cs if its pushing too fast and it will be at your tower before your adc. If your minion wave is pushing you can get some minions so the wave crashes to the enemy turret and if the enemy bot lane is missing they will miss gold and xp.

Tuition Fee1 votes

Don't push it. Just last hit, or 1/3 ADCs throw a tantrum.

Jerry SeinfeId1 votes

you can farm however much you like if there's noone there. obviously you're gonna want to last hit as much as possible as you could fuck shit up by hard pushing and the adc will lose money. so if you don't want your adc to be playing half a champion for 30 minutes you'll allow them all the cs they can get.

honestly just remember: gold that goes to noone is worthless.

after laning phase i stop caring about what role i started with and cs whenever i like. you might not wanna take that as advice tho.

Evíl cookíe1 votes

Your job is to get your adc big as fast as possible and to get your whole team ahead. In low elo if you feel like you can carry the game on your shoulders and your adc is trash you can last hit champions too (do not do it like a troll but go for it). If you have an adc with a brain, try to get him as fed as possible (not stealing minions or kills). Freeze the lane for him and deny the enemy adc cs. Most of the time you will backport the same time as your adc.

You are the most important player in your team alongside with your jungler - keep this in mind.

Hochelaga1 votes

Support don't usually takes creeps for their ADC. But there are some exceptions that support should take creeps and push

  • If your adc died or is back in town and creeps are pushing your tower. Again, don't just blow your skills and auto attack them or else you'll push the wave. Try to last hit creeps that would die to the tower if you wouldn't do anything.

  • If both lane is backed and you're the one left. You can hurry up and push the lane or else the ennemy team will just freeze the lane

Again, use your judgement to take creeps from your adc if you think that he wouldn't get it anyway. If you see your adc in the river while you are in lane and a wagon creep is on the verge of dying, nothing forbids you to take that creep.

JackMcSnipeyz1 votes

Last hitting's fine, dont push wave/freeze lane because that's just trouble.

200220121 votes

You can CS, but it's imoortant not to push the wave and only go for clutch last hits (so the tower and minions waste an AA cycle. When playing an enchanter it's almost always better to freeze a wave with your body because even if you do last hit the wave, it would be better for your AD to get even 3 more minions than for you to get all.

DarkRiver991 votes

As an adc main, I think if the cs wont be taken by your adc, either because the adc is gonna miss it or they aren’t in lane, you may as well take it, it’s literally just free gold for your team. Don’t want it to go to waste.

DiscWizard11 votes

Yes and no. Dont push unless the wave is already pushing and enemy not there. just last hit if its coming to you. HOWEVER, from every jungle player ever. DONT STAGGER YOUR RECALLS THEN CALL FOR A GANK. IM NOT GONING TO GANK WITH ONE OF YOU IN LANE AND I PREFER NOT TO WAIT FOR 4 MIN TO GANK YOUR LANE. If youre a support, recall with your adc, the only time you shouldnt is if you are safe from being dove (jg comes to help hold), or you are going to roam mid. Try to avoid sitting in lane as muhc as possible, theres no way you solo kill 1v2 as a the supp, and theres no reason to even try to trade into the enemy because if you do they will just turn and kill you or recall and get back to lane as your returning adc crashes wave, putting you in a position to be ganked or just traded into in a an unfavorable way for you becasue you are either oom or recalled.

xAcidik1 votes

{quoted}

Typically, I don't receive any hate when I grab some CS when the ADC recalls, or when the lane is pushed to our tower. But then sometimes I will have an ADC that freaks the hell out when I last hit a couple minions that were about to die to the wave or tower anyways. When asked why, I usually get ignored or simply told that Sup doesn't get CS... I am fairly new, and would like to know if I am actually doing anything wrong here. Keep in mind we are talking about maybe 4-5 CS by the time the ADC gets back to lane. Like I said, these are just last hits.

If these CS are unavailable to the ADC for any reason, take them. If you don't you're just being gold inefficient. Just don't push the wave. You should only auto each minion once, and that should be the last hit.

Envy Sin1 votes

Don't cs unless you're about to b or your gold item is done as it puts a delay on the stacks preventing you from getting ward item upgrade for a longer period of time.

Once gold item is done then whatever

Ellphi1 votes

Ideally you back at the same time or gank another lane, staggering your recalls is just forfeiting the lane

More from Gameplay