Why Many Aatrox Mains are Dissatisfied with His New Rework

CorrinFIakes·Jun 17, 2018·67 votes·20,810 views

I'm sure that people are getting tired of hearing all of us Aatrox mains whine as they rework him into something diffrent. It happens with every rework. Many of the mains get angry how the new rework looks, and after a month or two of it dropping, the rage subsides and we move on.

Though, this rage seems justified. Aatrox, lore wise and game play wise, has drastically altered. This really isn't Aatrox anymore. This rework, along with others in the past (Galio being the worst offender), is a new character being made that shares some of the same characteristics, while deleting the old character at the same time.

Aatrox, before his rework, was regarded as an Auto Attack duelist/diver. The thing that separated him from other AA duelists was his W, Blood Price/Thirst, making the player have to decide if he should have Blood Price toggled on to deal more damage and fill up his blood well to reach his steroid and G.A. in a fight; or, toggle his Blood Thirst on in order to give him more sustain and surviveablilty in a fight. His Ult contributed to this fact, giving him a magical damage burst around him and increasing his attack range. His Dark Flight allowed him to gap close and his Blades of Torment offered poke and a slow to stick on to enemies easier.

Now, what quite a few Aatrox players where wishing for in a rework where changes to his Q (Dark Flight) and his E (Blades of Torment). These two abilities are considered the wonkiest and worst abilities in his kit because his Q radius for his knock up is very small (ontop of it being a small hitbox to begin with) and it offered nothing other than the small amount of damage it does. His E needed changing because of the skill's slow travel speed and weird hitbox. His W and his Ult (his ult, while underwhelming and could use some buff like bonus MS, feels like it doesn't need serious alteration)

What we have now is a Bruiser that primarily uses Abilities to trade and deal damage. The only things that has been kept is part of his Q on his third Q cast, his Blood Thirst being proced on his new passive, and his ult now has his revive. (Oh, and I guess his wonk hitboxes on his first two Q casts)

This is the issue with the rework, instead of being an Auto Attacking Duelist/Diver that could sustain himself or deal more damage, he is now a Bruiser that relies on casting his abilities more than using AA's. He is being mostly compared to Riven as a clunkier version of her.

Given how many Aatrox mains where willing to give their input on how to fix these issues on places such as the boards or /r/Aatrox mains, seeing Riot do what they did with the Galio rework, where they sprinkle in things from his old kit while.It has also been note that Riot has been quiet inside the Aatrox main's committees, possibly giving the implication that they new they didn't really rework him, just rather redo him from ground up. Very few changes could've been made, but they went with this grand scheme of a rework, for reason I can't really find or justify why so many solutions have been made by the community itself.

Lore and character wise, listening to his full VO you can tell they really tried with it, and I will give credit where it is due. With Aatrox's new lore, it fits him nicely and seems to be well done. He's angry at a lot of the champions, specifically the Targonians, but has some really deep and somber lines sprinkled in, giving him more character than "edgy demon who wants to kill everything." Despite him yelling that he is a God killer and World ender, making him sound like a done to death villain, its good in my opinion.

The issue is that its not the Aatrox we know and love (or hate). It feels like they could've done this rework without changing his model or personality. Aatrox was calm and collected. He craved war and bloodshed, but wasn't angry because Zoe existed because he never had had a reason to. They could've worked off of what they had, instead of only keeping the Darkin idea and scrapping the rest of him.

In the end, Aatrox was a Diver/Duelist that relied heavily on AA's that needed fixing. He was considered to be one of the most requested characters to be reworked because of how long since he has been touched meaningfully. What ended up as a result was a complete overhaul of a new champion that shares little characteristics with Aatrox. This has angered many fans of the original Aatrox, as there will be no way to play the old character they fell in love with. This rework will attract many new fans to him, but at the same time, cause many of Aatrox's old fans to leave, being forced to find a new main or stop playing the game entirely as Aatrox gets essentially removed from the game. Such was the fate for other characters, like Galio.

I mean, at least we still have his dance.

130 Comments

ModWulf HelhammerJun 17, 201835 votes

So here's the problem:

The most recent big reworks (Irelia, Swain, Galio) all were done largely from a mismatch in theme and execution. Swain was supposed to be a master tactician, instead he just rode into the middle of a fight and sat there, Irelia was a telekinetic blade wielder who barely used the power, etc.

Aatrox is largely a gameplay update (in fact, that's all it was really going to be at first, but they realized it needed to be a full visual update as well)

The core mechanic of "Auto attack diver who sustains through everything from his innate kit" was not something that was going to work out for balance (as you can see by the Warwick rework, which moved most of his healing to only when he was low health, eliminating the drain tank paradigm).

So I understand that Aatrox players may be upset because his playstyle was so fundamentally changed, but I'm sorry to tell you that that is unlikely to change, as that was the fundamental issue they needed to fix: his old play pattern.

Slave KnightJun 17, 20188 votes

In terms of visuals and lore, I think Riot has done a pretty good job with their new spin on Aatrox. He has cemented history on Runeterra and has real motivations and grudges to keep him going. For the most part, his voicelines are a good mix of lore, character building and the rest but I do feel disappointed with how they've handled the voice. I and a lot of other Aatrox mains, REALLY liked the old voice and while I don't have anything against Slavic accents, I don't really feel Aatrox was or is a 'Cheeki Breeki' type of guy. IMO, the new voice can be really harsh on the ears at times and that's not something I'm looking forward to.

In terms of gameplay, while I'm open for him taking a different style for combat I am severely disappointed that they removed one of the most fundamental aspects of his kit - his auto attacks. I can live with the 'sustain by battle' mechanic getting scrapped because of its historic issues with balancing (even though this is another key aspect of Aatrox) but don't completely erase how we used to play him, please. Besides his Q strikes, his kit doesn't really emphasize the fact that he is a living sword and is meant to cleave through his foes. Literally 1 ability (two if you count the passive that you're going to be using on minions 90% of the time). Balancing aside, he feels clunkier and this doesn't help his previous image of being a master of his blade especially with the voicelines that imply he keeps this thematical tie with old Aatrox.

I REALLY want this rework to be a success but as it stands now, there's really no appeal to me or other Aatrox mains who were waiting to see a better Aatrox and not a completely new Aatrox. Riot has replaced 90% of the champion we played and there's literally nothing we can do about it.

Damn. I wish they would have spoken to us more about what we wanted from the Aatrox rework similarly to how they handled Irelia. As an Aatrox main, I don't feel like my voice was/is heard at all.

FlameHalbrdOkidoJun 17, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slave Knight,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6Fq4VFGZ,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-06-17T06:37:54.716+0000)

In terms of visuals and lore, I think Riot has done a pretty good job with their new spin on Aatrox. He has cemented history on Runeterra and has real motivations and grudges to keep him going. For the most part, his voicelines are a good mix of lore, character building and the rest but I do feel disappointed with how they've handled the voice. I and a lot of other Aatrox mains, REALLY liked the old voice and while I don't have anything against Slavic accents, I don't really feel Aatrox was or is a 'Cheeki Breeki' type of guy. IMO, the new voice can be really harsh on the ears at times and that's not something I'm looking forward to.

In terms of gameplay, while I'm open for him taking a different style for combat I am severely disappointed that they removed one of the most fundamental aspects of his kit - his auto attacks. I can live with the 'sustain by battle' mechanic getting scrapped because of its historic issues with balancing (even though this is another key aspect of Aatrox) but don't completely erase how we used to play him, please.

Also...did u kno that now...u can sustain off of EVERY AA? Its not just when u toggle W anymore, so u can live with the sustain by battle theme, and u can build AS on him, the only things they changed about his AA was moving the additional DMG to a passive with a CD and taking the AS off the ult and passive. U can still play him as an AA base champ, all they did was move some stuff around and put more focus on ability cast. Dude i bet u right now u can play him with almost the same pattern, its just that is healthier now. Go ahead DO it, just make sure u build AS on him.

Besides his Q strikes, his kit doesn't really emphasize the fact that he is a living sword and is meant to cleave through his foes.

well if U land more abilities u get to AA stronger more often!

Literally 1 ability (two if you count the passive that you're going to be using on minions 90% of the time).

...But the Old Aatrox didn't use ANY ability for swinging the sword actually! His W only changed the effects of his AA and was a passive...so actually this new Aatrox emphasize the fact that he is a living sword meant to cleave through his foes MORE than the old one, because he's got an ability that cleaves through foes in 3 separate casts! and then u also get the passive which changes the way he holds and attacks with his sword.

Balancing aside, he feels clunkier and this doesn't help his previous image of being a master of his blade especially with the voicelines that imply he keeps this thematical tie with old Aatrox.

I REALLY want this rework to be a success but as it stands now, there's really no appeal to me or other Aatrox mains who were waiting to see a better Aatrox and not a completely new Aatrox. Riot has replaced 90% of the champion we played and there's literally nothing we can do about it.

Just give him a chance, it may not be the old Aatrox you wanted, but can u learn to kinda like the new Aatrox...i mean at this point everyone should expect that if a rework is coming their champ is gonna get fundamentally changed. Don't tell me u sat through like more than 5 reworks that were VGU's where the champ changed a ton and DIDN'T expect it to happen to Aatrox.

Damn. I wish they would have spoken to us more about what we wanted from the Aatrox rework similarly to how they handled Irelia. As an Aatrox main, I don't feel like my voice was/is heard at all.

Slave KnightJun 18, 20183 votes

There's so much wrong in your comments that I honestly don't know where to begin with you. You sound clearly misinformed about the state of current Aatrox as well as how bad the new Aatrox in pbe is in comparison. I'm sick of hearing these regurgitated sheep comments that were created during Aatrox's initial release.

Aatrox hasn't been a 'drain tank' ever since his light-rework. His healing is flat and ONLY scales off missing health. If you build health, you don't get to build as much lifesteal. The first iteration of Aatrox definitely had better sustaining potential as he got a triple healing buffer when he was under 50%, allowing him to be this 'drain tank'. He doesn't heal for as much anymore and if he chooses to heal while in combat his damage drastically drops as he takes his 'defensive' stance over his 'offensive' stance. By the way, old Aatrox DID enhance his sword theme if you haven't noticed W made it so you chose between offense and defense, E while kind of tacked on was meant to emphasize the magic aspect of the blade - sending out 'BLADES of torment' and R emphasized the organize component of the blade, extending it and giving it range. While these themes could have been explored and depicted better, they were there nevertheless.

As for new Aatrox, well he feels like he's been pushed into the jungle role because I really don't think he has what it takes to take on the top lane. I HAVE tried new Aatrox and I made suggestions that most testers have voiced with the clunkiness of the new Aatrox. If you think you can build attack speed and suddenly Aatrox becomes auto-attack reliant again, you're an idiot. There's practically nothing in his kit besides maybe his useless passive that emphasises auto attacks over using your Q when it's available. I'm not hating that he has a new kit, I am just severely disappointed that riot kept almost nothing the same (except his passive revive and to be honest, for how much controversy this ability has gotten in the past, I'd rather they scrap it and give him REAL defensive abilities).

People think Aatrox isn't balanced because of what's been going on right now. Aatrox has been a decent pick for a long time now but it hasn't been until guinsoo's and conqueror AS WELL as the nerfs to tanks and ADCs that Aatrox is finally able to shine. He has a VERY simple kit that has clear weaknesses in that, his abilities have long cooldowns, they are all extremely telegraphed and he has to get in range to actually deal damage while not actually having chase/stickiness in his kit. I've always thought of Aatrox as one of the best template/beginner champions. He has enough in his kit to be decently versatile but at the same time, he emphasises on honing the fundamentals to climb and not just simply being more mechanically skilled.

Now having said all this, I definitely did think Aatrox needed a rework to keep in line with Riot's new direction and champion philosophy but... I wanted a rework not a complete redo. Of course I'll still give new Aatrox a shot and who knows, maybe they'll eventually hit the spot with him. BUT AS OF RIGHT NOW, I am mourning the death of my champion and regretting what he has become.

Darkria430Jun 18, 20181 votes

“Also...did u kno that now...u can sustain off of EVERY AA? Its not just when u toggle W anymore, so u can live with the sustain by battle theme” its just like 3 health per auto and its so slow too. like i liked opd aatrox because i felt like i could control my health and i could do those 100 health fights where you just cant die but thats no there anymore hes a bruiser who has an aa passive that gives not enough range for his kit andna q that makes u want to play ranged and a very lackluster ulti. old aatrox gave you the push you needed to dominate a duel. they just made a new champ instead of rework him he isnt a duelist diver champ anymore. he is just a spell caster with clunky abilitys

FlameHalbrdOkidoJun 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

its just like 3 health per auto and its so slow too. like i liked opd aatrox because i felt like i could control my health and i could do those 100 health fights where you just cant die but thats no there anymore hes a bruiser who has an aa passive that gives not enough range for his kit andna q that makes u want to play ranged and a very lackluster ulti. old aatrox gave you the push you needed to dominate a duel. they just made a new champ instead of rework him he isnt a duelist diver champ anymore. he is just a spell caster with clunky abilitys

Sure if don't use the kit effectively its 3 HP per AA, but ur E grants bonus AD for short duration, and ur passive will grant AD as well when its off CD (shortened by abilities). If u want more healing then build AD and AS. With the old Aatrox the only way u controlled ur was through 3 ways, ur passive which is largely out of ur control if the enemy disengages, ur E which cost HP and ur W which only healed on the 3rd AA. The new Aatrox heals for all the dmg he does and will have a greater chance of keeping an enemy in range with W, knock ups and a faster dash with 2 charges. His new passive gives him more range than most melee champs. His ult only appears lackluster because it MOSTLY about the revive which is a VERY powerful mechanic that eats up most of the ults power budget. Now he's a juggernaut skirmisher that embraces the theme of war more than the old Aatrox could, because he can dmg groups of people instead of just one which allows him to heal more and keep going. His abilities only look clunky in a duel in a lane, but in a clustered teamfight it will be easy to hit multiple targets with Q, this new Aatrox is meant more for team fights which encompass the idea of war MUCH better than dueling. Also being a diver whos also a drain tank isn't good for balance. Im sure Aatrox players would rather Riot keep the drain tank aspect than the Diver aspect. So thats why he's no longer a duelist diver, because teamfighting fits war better than dueling and a diver can't be a drain tank.

Darkria430Jun 27, 20181 votes

ok ignore my comment i played him more on pbe and he finna lit i did that comment after 3 games, i played 15 and hes fun and good i still just wish there was more to the ulti

FlameHalbrdOkidoJun 27, 20181 votes

{quoted}

ok ignore my comment i played him more on pbe and he finna lit i did that comment after 3 games, i played 15 and hes fun and good i still just wish there was more to the ulti

cool

AlienPrimateJun 17, 20188 votes

There were other ways to fix this that would have kept the mains happy and brought in new mains. My rework idea for Aatrox from over a year ago was able to fix his passive healing turning it into active healing while keeping him as an auto attacker who has to chose to use his resource (bloodwell) to do more damage or heal himself.

{quoted}

The idea of this rework is mostly to set a requirement for his healing making it so he can have great healing in a short burst at the cost of doing less damage due to losing resource. All numbers are subject to change as making a champion on paper is really hard to know what it would actually be like in practice.

Secondary bar: Bloodwell - 30 points

Passive - Bloodwell: damage - 5+1 per level (+5% ad) per second

The first attack with Aatrox's sword against an enemy maims them causing them to bleed for 4 seconds. Bleeding enemies take physical damage per second (1/2 for minions and small monsters). Attacks against bleeding champions generate 3 bloodwell and attacks against bleeding minions generate 1 bloodwell. Aatrox gains 1% bonus AD and attack speed for each point of bloodwell. This bonus lingers for 2 seconds after spending bloodwell to use abilities.

Aatrox's sword stores some of his own blood to use in case of emergency. Upon death, Aatrox becomes untargetable for 2 seconds and the sword will use this blood to revive him healing for 15% of the damage Aatrox has taken in the past 20 seconds (this shows as an indicator over his normal health bar). The minimum heal is 15% of his max health. 100 second cooldown.

Q - Dark Flight: Cooldown - 12 seconds; Cost - 10 bloodwell; Sword damage - 60/80/100/120/140 (+30% ad); Dive damage 70/105/140/175/210 (+50% ad)

Throw sword out in a target direction. The sword damages and slows enemies by 20/25/30/35/40%. It throws out to a range of 800 (1000 during his ult) before returning to Aatrox dealing half damage on the second hit on the same enemy. Can be reactivated to dive to the location of the sword dealing damage and knocking up enemies for 1 second. Aatrox's basic attacks do 1/2 damage and his range is reduced to 75 without his sword.

W - Bloody mess: Cooldown - 1 second; Cost - 10/9/8/7/6 bloodwell; Damage - 40/60/80/100/120 (+50% ad)

Aatrox’s sword blasts blood in the area around it (200 radius, 300 radius during ult) to deal damage.

E - Massacre: Cooldown - 0; Cost - 10 bloodwell; Heal - 50/75/100/125/150 (+5% Aatrox max HP, +100% ad) [+5% per bleeding enemy champion]

The blood of all bleeding enemies is absorbed to heal Aatrox and stop the enemies’ bleeding. When activated, every enemy whose blood is absorbed takes the full remaining bleed damage of all other enemies in the area.

R - Blood thirst: Cooldown - 100/85/70; Cost - 0; Attack speed increase - 40/50/60%

Active - The amount of bloodwell generated and attack range doubles and his attack speed increases for 10 seconds.

Additional notes:

The sword throw on Q counts as an auto attack for his passive. Each enemy hit will start bleeding and each enemy hit on the return will generate bloodwell meaning you could easily gain more bloodwell than you spend against a large group of minions.

Using W during the sword throw will cause the damage to come from the sword and not Aatrox.

W does not interrupt Aatrox's previous orders.

E and R are auto resets.

FlameHalbrdOkidoJun 17, 20182 votes

{quoted}

There were other ways to fix this that would have kept the mains happy and brought in new mains. My rework idea for Aatrox from over a year ago was able to fix his passive healing turning it into active healing while keeping him as an auto attacker who has to chose to use his resource (bloodwell) to do more damage or heal himself.

The passive would always make it hard to balance him, Q is interesting, W and E are kinda interesting tho i like how they work with the kit. R is boring and I like the VGU R better, i'd like to see how u'd change the current Kit tho

THE FIR3BLOODJun 18, 20182 votes

The only thing you kept from Aatrox old kit is his ultimate, his revive, a knock-up with a small radius and his AA reliance, but that's also not the Aatrox people loved and played with.

I get people that are dissatisfied with the new Aatrox and I, myself, agree that Riot could push this kit into a new champion while I could enjoy on-hit Aatrox more, but I also agree that his current kit is a nightmare design-wise (just like Tryndamere). I love playing Aatrox because I played lots of DK during my WoW times and I liked the idea of healing through dealing damage which was DKs tank playstyle (after 3 reworks), but at the same time the same playpattern doesn't effectively work in LoL and honestly, compared to his lore and gameplay ideas, his old kit didn't deliver it. His old kit was "jump to enemy, AA them to death", which doesn't translate into "warlord demon" for me. It didn't feel like Aatrox actually encouraged his allies into joining him into the battle, it was him diving into the enemy to... single-target AA them to death.

His new kit actually delivers his envisioned and lore-wise gameplay, in which he cleaves through the enemy, makes them fight him to death and won't be defeated through a battle. He doesn't dive into the enemy anymore, but rather cleaves his way into them, and his visuals and also his gameplay deliver the tragedy of facing him. The only thing I dislike about the rework is his self-root during Q casts, which I hope will be removed (with a self-slow movement). And honestly, a bruiser/AD caster fits Aatrox way more than AA based.

Like I said the only thing Riot has to change is his self-root during Q casts, which makes Aatrox way better to play as. And for me, as an Aatrox main, this rework was a success design and lore-wise, at least how I envisioned and experienced this sort of warlords.

Frontline FuryJun 17, 20188 votes

[{quoted}](name= Król Wilk Sam,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6Fq4VFGZ,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-06-17T06:08:02.416+0000)

So here's the problem:

The most recent big reworks (Irelia, Swain, Galio) all were done largely from a mismatch in theme and execution. Swain was supposed to be a master tactician, instead he just rode into the middle of a fight and sat there, Irelia was a telekinetic blade wielder who barely used the power, etc.

Aatrox is largely a gameplay update (in fact, that's all it was really going to be at first, but they realized it needed to be a full visual update as well)

The core mechanic of "Auto attack diver who sustains through everything from his innate kit" was not something that was going to work out for balance (as you can see by the Warwick rework, which moved most of his healing to only when he was low health, eliminating the drain tank paradigm).

So I understand that Aatrox players may be upset because his playstyle was so fundamentally changed, but I'm sorry to tell you that that is unlikely to change, as that was the fundamental issue they needed to fix: his old play pattern.

Issue here is, for many of us that old playstyle was what we found attractive.

First they gut Xin’s passive to unnoticeable levels and then they remove Aatrox - we no longer have any blade wiedlding champion that works on a self stacking 3 hit passive. The closest you get is Udyr, but none of his spells pack the “Oomph” of Xin’s old 3rd W or either of Aatrox’s Ws.

Now why those passives were considered unhealthy gameplay while Yi, Tryndamere and Yasuo exist in the game is beyond me...

NevrankroatonJun 18, 20182 votes

You realize everyone and their mother mocked and complained about Riot on the 3hit passive right?

Frontline FuryJun 18, 20185 votes

{quoted}

You realize everyone and their mother mocked and complained about Riot on the 3hit passive right?

Yes, of course. And those of us who like 3 hit passive playstyles can go fuck ourselves, because we're in the minority and therefore our opinions dont mean shit.

Mokuto BunshiJun 17, 20186 votes

[{quoted}](name= Król Wilk Sam,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6Fq4VFGZ,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-06-17T06:08:02.416+0000)

So here's the problem:

The most recent big reworks (Irelia, Swain, Galio) all were done largely from a mismatch in theme and execution. Swain was supposed to be a master tactician, instead he just rode into the middle of a fight and sat there, Irelia was a telekinetic blade wielder who barely used the power, etc.

Aatrox is largely a gameplay update (in fact, that's all it was really going to be at first, but they realized it needed to be a full visual update as well)

The core mechanic of "Auto attack diver who sustains through everything from his innate kit" was not something that was going to work out for balance (as you can see by the Warwick rework, which moved most of his healing to only when he was low health, eliminating the drain tank paradigm).

So I understand that Aatrox players may be upset because his playstyle was so fundamentally changed, but I'm sorry to tell you that that is unlikely to change, as that was the fundamental issue they needed to fix: his old play pattern.

Thats all well and good with nice damage, but his NEW play pattern however balanced it may be has 2 issues:

1 It is VERY stat checky. With no % dmg in a tank lane on his abilities (only 2 of which do damage IIRC) He either DOES or DOESN'T do enough damage.

2 His play patter IS that of a riven when it comes to Q EXCEPT he locks himself into place casting an AOE not dissimilar from Camille and Darius baring needing another ability to move. Not only that but unlike them this is his CC and missing that ability (just by dodging to the weaker part) removes the CC from his combo. Darius still has apprehend and a auto attack-slow, Camile still has her ult and her wall jump stun. Attrox has his W but guess what? It needs his Q to land! Your best bet is to always start with W for the slow then Q and then aim 2nd Q where the W pulls to. Granted, the synergy is nice, but should any part of that ramping CC combo fail you loose most of it...

On top of that, his ults move speed, even though nice, doesn't allow you to more easily land your Q and its CC+damage areas. MAYBE ult giving cast time or your E scaling with Move-speed (for distance or CDR?) would help. But as it stands (and this from someone who has PLAYED new Attrox on the PBE), he will have to be buffed at least once when he first comes out, probably twice maybe even more than normal due to learning curve.

We all know what happens when a champion comes out too weak... The balancing process is a drag.

AirKingNeoJun 17, 201833 votes

Aatrox was said to be reworked because Riot kept him historically weak. His passive rework in season 6/7 fixed Aatrox and he became a viable champion, which you see right now.

Aatrox players expected a Warwick level rework, not a new champion called Riven2.

FawkseaJun 17, 20186 votes

{quoted}

Aatrox was said to be reworked because Riot kept him historically weak. His passive rework in season 6/7 fixed Aatrox and he became a viable champion, which you see right now.

Aatrox players expected a Warwick level rework, not a new champion called Riven2.

aatrox's mini rework was seen as a horrible failiure and made him worse than he was

Foreman GrillsJun 17, 20187 votes

It was initially a huge nerf, but he's been okay since they buffed him, and good since conqueror.

FawkseaJun 17, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Foreman Grills,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6Fq4VFGZ,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-06-17T18:55:39.498+0000)

It was initially a huge nerf, but he's been okay since they buffed him, and good since conqueror.

they didn't buff him doe, all they did after rework was make his passive work on jungle camps. (which btw, how the fuck was that not there to begin with.)

AirKingNeoJun 18, 20181 votes

they fixed his bad base stats and undid nerfs to his W.

LordGeovanniJun 19, 20181 votes

undid. solidified because if you wanted to play attrox like he was designed and not like a meta slave where all the brusiers have no ad to scale their skills with and only get item 3748 item 3071 into tank items he was shit because they completely removed his ad scaling on his healing W. Although they did undo his base stats being weak which they could have just done on him before his pre rework He didnt need to cut his skills damage because he had health cost which justifed his w doing more. while champions can have extra damage every 7 autos that scales on a stat that already scales auto attacks

AirKingNeoJun 19, 20182 votes

actually he sucked because they nerfed his W damage mode by like 30 damage or something

OleandervineJun 19, 20182 votes

A Warwick level rework would have worked if he wasn't one of the worst instances of feast or famine.

AirKingNeoJun 19, 20182 votes

mini rework already fixed that

OleandervineJun 19, 20182 votes

Clearly it did not if he was still problematic enough to merit a full GU.

AirKingNeoJun 19, 20184 votes

he wasn't problematic after his mini rework

you're treating riot's opinion like they're an almighty god

OleandervineJun 19, 20181 votes

He wasn't very viable either. He was just Band-Aid fixed. He was usable, and he didn't break the game as hard, but he wasn't in a good place.

AirKingNeoJun 19, 20182 votes

He's literally viable in LCS right now just because BoRK was reduced by 200 gold.

Attticus FinchJun 17, 201825 votes

All 7 Aatrox mains?

xelakerJun 17, 201842 votes

[{quoted}](name=Attticus Finch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6Fq4VFGZ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-06-17T04:22:13.946+0000)

All 7 Aatrox mains?

should have been super easy to get feedback from them though.

SaiannaJun 17, 201816 votes

The joke has been missed so hard that day lol

CasterGilgameshJun 17, 20185 votes

people took that comment too seriously

Lil Homie bustaJun 17, 20188 votes

Try to laugh from the death and replacement of your main champion.

OleandervineJun 19, 20184 votes

You mean the bland "I'm the Where's Waldo of War Gods" who's background amounted to retellings of how angry he made people who were losing wars? The one who was so underdeveloped on his launch that they phoned in his story and his VO to be something so utterly generic that it could "fit" in the game without actually impacting the lore? The same Aatrox who's been the most modern stat check champion in the game, who's unkillable when he was allowed to be good, and may as well have AFK'd for all the worth he gave when he was behind? That champion?

I mean, I feel bad you got your hopes dashed, but Aatrox was really nothing more than roster filler up until now. He was utterly generic, his kit was binary and unhealthy, and he had an immensely small player base because he had no character or development whatsoever. Varus' new lore last year was the first time Aatrox had ever been mentioned in any lore stories - and that was to tell us that Aatrox was the first goliath to fall in the Darkin Wars. All of his changes have been for the better, and have given him actual characterization and a place in the world that has him interacting with other characters. He's no longer just a vague afterthought in the lore. He's a powerful, aggressive player in the ever expanding epic involving Targon and Shurima and the struggle against the Void.

4th3t0sJun 17, 201814 votes

https://i.imgflip.com/2cdccx.jpg

Teridax68Jun 17, 201814 votes

I'm not an Aatrox main, but this is a criticism I very much agree with. I think we can generally agree that Aatrox has some pretty serious gameplay issues, but he also had a distinct style of play that was worth keeping, namely one with a focus on basic attacks and three-hit bonuses, that we've seen succeed on existing kits (e.g. Ekko, Vayne, Vi, etc.). On top of that, Warwick and Irelia are both examples of heavily autoattack-dependent, sustain-based champions whose reworks were successful, as they preserved their general playstyles, including their autoattacking strength and persistent sustain, while making them healthier. The stage was effectively set for the same to happen to Aatrox, and even those unfamiliar with the champion seemed to agree that he mostly needed updates to the less interesting parts of his kit, rather than a complete redo. It is therefore disappointing to see that this does not seem to have even been attempted, as the new Aatrox plays completely differently from his predecessor even in ways that have been proven to not require such drastic changes. The fact that this new kit is also very similar to Riven's, right down to the way his abilities are meant to be comboed, adds insult to injury.

To reiterate, I'm not complaining simply because I feel the rework could've hypothetically been made closer to the old Aatrox. Rather, the features that players are asking for are features that have already been successfully preserved in other reworks. If this were Riot's first ever VGU, maybe there'd be more room for guessing, but we've had many complete champion overhauls that have succeeded far better in preserving their champions' identity, including overhauls to champions with issues very similar to Aatrox's, e.g. Warwick and Irelia. By contrast, we have also had several reworks that are notoriously unsuccessful, precisely because they did not even try to capture the original champion's feel and playstyle: Karma's failed overhaul is still heavily criticized to this day, and whenever Galio stops being OP, he gets exactly the same complaints, as well as a massive drop in popularity that amply demonstrates his lack of a true core fanbase. When these reworks hit, their success was generally easy to gauge even before they hit Live, as players right from the get-go could identify how much integrity and creativity went into the VGU. Within just a few days, the new Aatrox is already largely being seen as Riven 2.0, including by people who tested him on the PBE, and he has already attracted a huge amount of negative attention due to how drastically he departs from the original. This in itself is not great, but it is all the more unfortunate that Riot's development process means he is likely to sit in this state for years. We have yet to see a VGU get reverted, and I fear Aatrox's update will be no different in this respect.

SpecterVonBarenJun 17, 201811 votes

Never thought I'd see the day when "many" and "Aatrox" were used in the same sentence.

rtbf225618241Jun 17, 20186 votes

For a titan of a monster who is older than war and desired to inspire men to reveal the horrors within them...yeah, pretty underwhelming.

"I know what lurks within the hearts of men."

Someone who would force them to lose themselves to the atrocities commited by their own hands, revealing the truth. Witnessing it by their own hands...and now he might aswell be Veigar's dad. Great..

Troll for TrumpJun 17, 20186 votes

Cuz full-on autoattacking statchecking isn't fair or fun to play against.

That's why he can't keep W.

Foreman GrillsJun 17, 20189 votes

You're right. Remove ADCs from the game.

Troll for TrumpJun 17, 20181 votes

full-on autoattacking statchecking

Aatrox isn't weaving in abilities, he's just mashing rightclick. ADCs have to actually cast spells, or have some other mechanics, Aatrox is LITERALLY just rightclicking you to death

PB4UAMEJun 17, 20189 votes

Totally never casts his E, or Q, or toggles between W or pre-charges it on minions, or weaving his ult into all-in patterns which then affect his AAs, and make his third hit W's easier to proc.

Nope, literally just straight AA stat-checking. Not like he y'know, absolutely NEEDS to use some combination of E -> Q -> R, or at least E -> Q to even get in range to land the first auto attack to begin with.

Then compare this to ranged statchecking without ever using another ability, and just passively getting huge DPS steroids, or pressing one single button, like Trist Q, Jinx Q, Kog W, Ashe R, Varus R then standing their auto attacking until your target is dead, or even just pressing one button and fucking standing there like MF, and Jihn. More often than not they completely win fights before their target is even in range to react, or before they have the ability to close the gap, let alone do any damage of their own to the ranged stat-checkers.

AirKingNeoJun 18, 20184 votes

don't fight him in his passive?

Troll for TrumpJun 18, 20182 votes

Aatrox isn't OP (in my opinion, stats disagree). Point is he's just autoattack statchecking. When you fight him it's like fighting Yis, Trynds, Kayles, and their ilk.

AirKingNeoJun 18, 20185 votes

don't fight him in his passive.

Troll for TrumpJun 18, 20182 votes

That's not the point I was making. Again. He's just an autoattack statchecking character.

Don't fight him in his passive or don't fight yi in his ult. That doesn't address the respective champ's inherent flaw of being an autoattack based statchecker.

Not hard to understand.

Whether or not a champ is an autoattack statchecker has nothing to do with what you're saying. Non sequitur.

AirKingNeoJun 18, 20185 votes

Stat check means there's no counterplay.

Aatrox, like Darius, has his stat boosts under a condition, so there is counterplay.

ShonjlJun 17, 20183 votes

{quoted}

I'm sure that people are getting tired of hearing all of us Aatrox mains whine as they rework him into something diffrent. It happens with every rework. Many of the mains get angry how the new rework looks, and after a month or two of it dropping, the rage subsides and we move on.

Though, this rage seems justified. Aatrox, lore wise and game play wise, has drastically altered. This really isn't Aatrox anymore. This rework, along with others in the past (Galio being the worst offender), is a new character being made that shares some of the same characteristics, while deleting the old character at the same time.

Aatrox, before his rework, was regarded as an Auto Attack duelist/diver. The thing that separated him from other AA duelists was his W, Blood Price/Thirst, making the player have to decide if he should have Blood Price toggled on to deal more damage and fill up his blood well to reach his steroid and G.A. in a fight; or, toggle his Blood Thirst on in order to give him more sustain and surviveablilty in a fight. His Ult contributed to this fact, giving him a magical damage burst around him and increasing his attack range. His Dark Flight allowed him to gap close and his Blades of Torment offered poke and a slow to stick on to enemies easier.

Now, what quite a few Aatrox players where wishing for in a rework where changes to his Q (Dark Flight) and his E (Blades of Torment). These two abilities are considered the wonkiest and worst abilities in his kit because his Q radius for his knock up is very small (ontop of it being a small hitbox to begin with) and it offered nothing other than the small amount of damage it does. His E needed changing because of the skill's slow travel speed and weird hitbox. His W and his Ult (his ult, while underwhelming and could use some buff like bonus MS, feels like it doesn't need serious alteration)

What we have now is a Bruiser that primarily uses Abilities to trade and deal damage. The only things that has been kept is part of his Q on his third Q cast, his Blood Thirst being proced on his new passive, and his ult now has his revive. (Oh, and I guess his wonk hitboxes on his first two Q casts)

This is the issue with the rework, instead of being an Auto Attacking Duelist/Diver that could sustain himself or deal more damage, he is now a Bruiser that relies on casting his abilities more than using AA's. He is being mostly compared to Riven as a clunkier version of her.

Given how many Aatrox mains where willing to give their input on how to fix these issues on places such as the boards or /r/Aatrox mains, seeing Riot do what they did with the Galio rework, where they sprinkle in things from his old kit while.It has also been note that Riot has been quiet inside the Aatrox main's committees, possibly giving the implication that they new they didn't really rework him, just rather redo him from ground up. Very few changes could've been made, but they went with this grand scheme of a rework, for reason I can't really find or justify why so many solutions have been made by the community itself.

Lore and character wise, listening to his full VO you can tell they really tried with it, and I will give credit where it is due. With Aatrox's new lore, it fits him nicely and seems to be well done. He's angry at a lot of the champions, specifically the Targonians, but has some really deep and somber lines sprinkled in, giving him more character than "edgy demon who wants to kill everything." Despite him yelling that he is a God killer and World ender, making him sound like a done to death villain, its good in my opinion.

The issue is that its not the Aatrox we know and love (or hate). It feels like they could've done this rework without changing his model or personality. Aatrox was calm and collected. He craved war and bloodshed, but wasn't angry because Zoe existed because he never had had a reason to. They could've worked off of what they had, instead of only keeping the Darkin idea and scrapping the rest of him.

In the end, Aatrox was a Diver/Duelist that relied heavily on AA's that needed fixing. He was considered to be one of the most requested characters to be reworked because of how long since he has been touched meaningfully. What ended up as a result was a complete overhaul of a new champion that shares little characteristics with Aatrox. This has angered many fans of the original Aatrox, as there will be no way to play the old character they fell in love with. This rework will attract many new fans to him, but at the same time, cause many of Aatrox's old fans to leave, being forced to find a new main or stop playing the game entirely as Aatrox gets essentially removed from the game. Such was the fate for other characters, like Galio.

I mean, at least we still have his dance.

I used to play a lot of jungle aatrox and I hate that they are literally making him into a shitty Riven. Who the fuck asked for that? He needed an update or slight changes. Not a bloody brand new champ. They basically mixed Riven with Swain and called it a day

TyroneWatermelonJun 17, 20183 votes

First of all the change of voice actor and personality. Second of all the passive is there just because of the sustain/shield spam meta, and is kinda hypocritical because he himself relies on sustain Third, Aatrox's new Q instead of Diving in, is a mashup of Kayn's W reversed, Camille's W, and Riven's third Q.