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Item to counter lethality build.

CancerBasedGod··4 votes·26,726 views

Alright, well the mob has spoken, and lethality hate is the FoTM. People keep suggesting removing lethality from ranges. (seriously?) I think if anything is going to change from this, adding an item that can be built to counter lethality build would be best way to handle the situation.

The way to build against lethality, is to build armor. If you use a true tank support such as Leona, Braum, or Nautilus you won't have as much of an issue, as removing 50 armor from 200 doesn't do much. Now the only issue with this is that ADCs and assassins do not usually have room for an armor item. They have Maw for MR while still gaining AD, but no AD/AR item exists. (Well Ez has iceborn gauntlent, which is the exception where armor is viable.)

So for an offensive armor item I would personally like to see Warlord's Bloodmail unretired with new stats. The passive, while previously weak, is the kind of thing that would fit on ADCs/Assassins, as it rewards aggressively seeking out kills.

Warlord's Bloodmail: 3250 Gold (Pickaxe + Chain Vest + Giant's belt + 575 gold) +30 Attack Damage +400 Health +40 Armor

UNIQUE Passive: Upon champion kill heal 30% health over 2 second. Upon kill assist heal half. Additional kills with 15 seconds grant half.

I think this is really fairly balanced, would work well on ADCs and Assassins, and generally wouldn't be easy to abuse on other champions, as it works off of kills.

It would also be a fun pick for some other champions to. Tryndamere could ult in and heal at the end, Kat would be sweet with it, and I would probably wind up running it and spirit on Trundle.

38 Comments

oSEXYPLATYPUSo3 votes

lol 40 armor wont be enough vs a full lethality build on a kha , talon, zed etc

and then they are just gonna build the item themselves so they can be tanky and blow you up

and people will cry that adcs are to tanky

no matter what happens people will bitch

CancerBasedGod1 votes

Well I have no doubt people will bitch, but that is on them. As for the defense, 40 armor and 400 health seems like enough to me. ADCs come with around 80 armor so they would have roughly 120 with this, that's enough to stop true damage.

As for assassins, I actually like the idea that they would take this item.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

or you can just get a item 3742 item 3143 item 3075 item 3026

ya know considering lethality is a early game power stat and tails off through out the game after an adc gets their two core items

lets say item 3031 item 3085 (typically crit/ad/attack speed set up) for them to pick up an early item 3026 maybe after they get basic boots it would make them safer.. harder to kill and therefore able to do more damage. and with getting it early in game you have the passive to be available more often through out the game plus the armor it provides

just a side note...

adcs can have some defensive having item 3047 item 3046 item 3072 early game might actually make them be able to duel and trade with the lethality builds

CancerBasedGod1 votes

Yeah, I tend to build Ninja a lot... I still don't think that that invalidates another option though.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

but what can help ADCs in game ... is people/teams build and protect the ADCs like in the older days of league...

not many adcs are great duelist ( vayne being one, lucian ) most are stationary champs who do damage from range... and need a team to be able to keep people off them and let them do what they do ... damage...

in games where i adc ( coming from a support main ) i have really aggravating and bad games when my team decides to go ham and everyone tries to carry the game... (not one champ needs to do this) but in games where i know hey i have this champ here to shield and cc for me... this champ here to tank some damage... and this champ over there that can clean up anything i dont finish i have really really good games. its a team game... play as a team.. instead of individuals and see how beautiful this game can be... and how much less toxicity there is and how more wins and competitive games you have

for example my last game i got adc... i had a zyra support, morg mid and rengar jungle ( and thresh top/ dont know dont ask. but he did ok)

i was able to carry the game with damage out damaging all 9 other players in the game and going 12-6-11 and was able to close out and win game as adc ( which they are designed to do )

and i was facing a jihn/sion bot, leblanc mid, elise jungle and camille top we played team fights very well and i was able to get a complete build and have 100% crit chance on CAIT ... so i was doing so much damage with just autos late game

CancerBasedGod1 votes

I have nothing against that idea, and honestly don't see this turning ADCs into bruisers. As for an ADC like Cait, I doubt there would be any change in how she would play, I wouldn't build this on her. However there are ADCs that are supposed to play up closer, and more mobile new champions are threatening ADCs more despite their team (hopefully) protecting them. With all that I really don't feel like this item would be out of line.

I would probably bring this if I was playing Vayne, Lucien, and Quinn, as well as some out of bot lane marksmen, Graves and Kindred, and some Assassins, Yi, Kat, Kha, Noct, Reng. I didn't mean for all squishies to universally build it as the new way to be an ADC, that's not good for build diversity.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

ok but those adcs you speak of Graves MissFortune Lucian Quinn already run lethality builds so they get that item you suggested and then get item 3814 item 3142 and now they are completely over powered

CancerBasedGod1 votes

Well I don't think so because they still only have 6 items. Graves has a lot of different things he wants, BT, DD, DB, GB, EoN, LD, Boots, he already has to leave one item that is really good on him. This would be a little bit of a damage decrease for all of them, and make then a little more affected by builds that just use LD. (actually the health would make LD good on them)

I don't see it as a massive spike to any of them, it would help them dive, but it would also lower their face burst when they took it over something else.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

if these champs have an item that gives them AD , ARMOR and HP they will all take it and never get a GA as a defensive item due to the hp being good vs all damage, armor vs phsyical damage and the bonus ad they get just for the hell of it

CancerBasedGod1 votes

I disagree. If those champions were prioritizing HP and armor much they could just build Raduins, this is only 30 AD more for 20 armor and 100 Health. That's a little better statistically, but it doesn't have the reduced crit damage, AS reducing passive, or the active. What could set it apart as a pick for these champs is that the kill health would allow them to more easily double up and go for a second kill after picking someone off. However it would not offer superior dueling potential.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

but randiums dont give them damage

if you want def you cant get offensive with it as well

cant have your cake and eat it too

CancerBasedGod1 votes

But this is a reduced defense, and a reduced offense... It adds up to one whole item, just like Maw. There is Zhoyna's for armor/AP, Abyssal for MR/MP, and maw/EoN for MR/AD.

There is an item for each damage type and defense except Armor/AD.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

all this item would do would be boost those divers/ assassins and adcs with lethality builds

it wont help adcs much

CancerBasedGod1 votes

Well obviously it would have its benefits, but I don't think it would become mandatory on divers anymore than maw is. I compared the stats of this to Maw when writing this. It might be a little more universal thanks to the health, but it's still not the kind of thing that would become mandatory.

And even if it did it could always be tweaked.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

wouldnt the proper response be a re-balancing of lethality instead of another item ?

CancerBasedGod1 votes

Maybe, lethality runes could be reduced. However if you have an option for someone to get true damage they are going to take it. That isn't so much of an issue for the tank and fighter classes that can drop an offensive item for an armor item instead, but it is a problem for champions that cannot drop an offensive item. That's why I think this item would be good. There isn't anything to stop people from building lethality to kill ADCs and Assassins unless they can either counter build, or lethality isn't obnoxiously strong on them. Nerfing lethality so it wasn't too good on ADCs would also make it near useless on other champions.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

but you can and you should drop an offensive item for def ... do you not see pro play and see adcs getting QSS vs mal in lane... or mages getting item 3157 vs ad in mid. and so on...

was watching fly vs c9 just now sneaky on ashe had to get a item 3026 3rd item so eve, jayce couldnt blow her up instantly

CancerBasedGod1 votes

QSS builds into a mixed AD/MR item though, and zhonya's is a mixed AP/armor item. Everyone has that option except for AD wanting armor. As for an ADC picking up guardian angel, that's kind of backing up my point. Ashe having to build Guardian Angel is gimping her late game damage potential, and reducing her ability to carry with AD. If an ADC is being forced into an item like that I think it's working a little too strong.

WoonStruck1 votes

Considering most get black cleaver or LDR, sometimes both

120 becomes 9 armor with BC. 27 with LDR. 7 with both.

CancerBasedGod1 votes

Forgot armor runes actually when I said 80, it could be 150 (27 from scaling armor runes.)

As for LDR, BC and 3 lethality, that would take up 5 items, and you would either have to drop boots or LS, either way that wouldn't work.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votes

duo lanes do not run scaling runes due to sharing experience and lvling slower then other lanes

its not ideal and then you calculate in the early game power of lethality it makes less sense

Mizuki Zahra1 votes

When I duo I run flat runes and have been building lethality on adc it's pretty good when other team is a 4 tank wall but I just keep my distance from assassins never leave lane alone

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

exactly... flat runes vs scaling runes ... scaling runes typically out scale flat runes about lvl 7-9 depending on the rune...

so if someone runs scaling armor on adc and the enemy adc has lethality they have less armor early as the adc who goes lethality build would do more damage to them and would be able to snowball the advantage even more.

9 flat armor runes is +9 armor scaling armor runes at lvl 1 is only + 1.44armor but equal flat armor runes ( +9) at lvl 6 and out scale at lvl 7

CancerBasedGod1 votes

But people can't afford multiple lethality items pre 6... It's only lower for a little bit.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

no. you are correct.. .but they run lethality runes... and start long sword n pot to get their 1st lethality item very early in lane on 1st back usually item 3142 (2900) gold very cheap when they start item 1036 item 2031 cuz they arent buying pots and arent wasting gold on item 1055 and the long sword (350g) builds directly into item 3134 (which is 1100g) -350g makes it 750g is what they need on 1st back to get ahead vs the scaling armor runes

when you are trying to get item 1038 at 1300 gold and you start item 1055 puts you at a big gold disadvantage in lane cuz you have to get 1300 gold to get the BF Sword when they just need 750 gold to get item 3134

let alone the cost of getting item 3031 3600 gold compared to item 3142 at 2900 gold

they reach that item and that power spike alot quicker

ßurst2 votes

Or or hear me out did you know that just normal armor items counter lethality :O like sunfire cape, randuins :O

CancerBasedGod1 votes

Yes I did. They don't fit well on ADCs or some Assassins though.

ßurst2 votes

Thats why you have a tank top such as naut and a jungle thats tanky like greg and you watch them squirm as they don't do dmg lol

CancerBasedGod1 votes

I again, mentioned that in my OP... Look this thing would offer more build diversity, why are you against it?

Hige2 votes

it's funny really ._. the maximum number lethality can reach is 84.2 accounting for both masteries and runes, this means that a item 3110 is render nearly useless, for the record, 84.2 is exactly Jinx' lvl 18 armor value, so at lvl 18, someone with full lethality build would be doing true damage to jinx if she had no armor items.

If Jinx were to build a frozen heart (crazy I know) she'd have 90 armor still and lethality would be doing almost nothing, if you were to build a item 3075 you'd effectively have 190 armor extra, this would mean that you'd have nearly 200% effective hp, lethality is not that broken when looked at from a number's point of view but of course, adcs don't build armor whatsoever.

also, take in account that item 3083 has 800 flat health, if you build this item you increase your durability without spending money on a stat that will be negated, item 3022 has 700 health, this is almost 30% of an adc's total HP pool meaning that you are getting the equivalent of 30 armor without allowing your enemy to negate the stat you're investing on

oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votes

yet i said to counter lethality is to more HP builds ( not just on adcs , in general) and people downvoted me saying i was stupid and responded saying they would build item 3153 well if you are a lethality champ/build path why would they ever get a item 3153

Hige2 votes

lol, well it is a possibility I guess but people don't seem to understand that if they build a BotRK they deviate from the lethality build so you kinda win?

If they do though, you have to adapt again, a item 3068 gives you both armor and health, BotRK gives a measly 25 attack damage plus it works based on AS, for ADCS it might work nicely (not for Jhin though) but on assassins building BotRK is a joke :S

oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votes

that is the game though... everything has a pro and con to it.. its not checkers its a game of chess ...

Hige1 votes

I wholeheartedly agree

WoonStruck1 votes

item 3742 item 3143 item 3068 item 3047 item 3065 and one of item 3748/item 3071.

Want a reason?

You get armor (~75 if they go 5 item leth+pen+red+runes/masteries) so you don't take true damage, tons of HP (each item is ~500 HP), lots of damage+stickiness, and reduce damage/attackspeed/crit (which includes applicable spells). In addition, bonus healing and your MR slot, if needed.

Gunna need your CDR from runes tho. You can get 30% from scaling blues+quints if you really want 40% badly.

Alternatively, all HP/damage items+BotRK.

CancerBasedGod1 votes

But those aren't for ADCs and Assassins, and the item I am suggesting is.

WoonStruck1 votes

Your item would, frankly, be horrible for the game because ADCs and assassins would build it, and it would be first item rush on every non-ap jungler. Maybe even some AP junglers. Pretty much every top laner would rush it.

Sorry.

I read post as 'items to counter lethality build'. Sorry for not reading your post.

CancerBasedGod1 votes

I don't think so. It does have a powerful stat spread, however the AD isn't amazing by itself, and bringing it before other AD items would reduce your ability to kill, and therefor reduce your ability to benefit from the passive. I see it as more mid game.

Anyway it could always be slightly nerfed if it was problematic.

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