Just wondering why mages got their sustain removed. AD assassins benefit from sustain in burst/defensive items. Mages already benefit from 1/3 of the Spell Vamp, why did we have to remove it ? You can't build armor against AD assassins when any spell thrown at you puts you in the danger zone.
Erockandroll3 votesBurst patterns, resulted in Burst sustain. Which Riot apparently thought was oppressive. It also didn't help that a higher levels of play, no one was actually using it except maybe vlad. And in the case of Vlad, he became limited in build options because he had to build it. (People claimed that Vlad alone, Ruined Spell vamp.)
If you wanted a sustain option for mages, My recommendation would be combining AP/HP items with Wormarg's. (I do this sometimes in ARAM) Fairly decent in a siege situation were you can gain back the HP lost from an extended trade.
MrPlantarbre2 votesYes ! Only Vlad or kennen would purchase it. (It was a fairly strong item on Annie and old veigar tbh)
But it's not really that the item was removed, but that riot intentionnally removed the only real way from mages to sustain through their lane phase. Now, it's just potions. Nothing was introduced so mages could sustain, the RoA healing is very poor.
I feel very oppressed against lanes like Zed/Yasuo/Talon, but I just don't know how to deal with them anymore. I can't build enough armor against them, because their build path uses letality, and they can harass me when I last-hit. I don't have any sustain to be able to last-hit without endangering myself. I can't buy that many potions (though i always take the reloadable one), because they cost 50g now.
So, I only have two options left : Freezing/Staying under tower, or killing them. Sadly, their build path always relies on mercurials and hexdrinker, so I can't use this option. That was fine with me, because there was always a way to deal with things. But now, it's so hard to put that in practice. Free movespeed, anti-warding, enough AD to push towers down, chasing options built-in. I would love to come bot and help them when my yasuo/Zed goes there, but how can I know if they are not waiting in my bush ? (I've had junglers sitting with the midlaner on the bush next to wolves, red side) How do I get there on time with a mage movespeed ?
I feel like I have to waste gold and get a gunblade, now. Because it helps so much against all of this. Thus I wonder why mages have seen their only sustain item removed, with nothing to replace it.
EDIT : Oh, I forgot to mention, there is always the last option : pushing. But how ? I can push and endanger myself as much as I want, my base AS/AD is so low, even my ap doesn't help me to push as fast as an AD player. I have Anivia in mind, for instance.
Asayake 5150glow1 votesYes ! Only Vlad or kennen would purchase it. (It was a fairly strong item on Annie and old veigar tbh)
But it's not really that the item was removed, but that riot intentionnally removed the only real way from mages to sustain through their lane phase. Now, it's just potions. Nothing was introduced so mages could sustain, the RoA healing is very poor.
I feel very oppressed against lanes like Zed/Yasuo/Talon, but I just don't know how to deal with them anymore. I can't build enough armor against them, because their build path uses letality, and they can harass me when I last-hit. I don't have any sustain to be able to last-hit without endangering myself. I can't buy that many potions (though i always take the reloadable one), because they cost 50g now.
Wtf? Armor counters Lethality... not building armor against Lethality is like shooting yourself in the foot, slicing off your head, and handing it to them on a silver platter,
So, I only have two options left : Freezing/Staying under tower, or killing them. Sadly, their build path always relies on mercurials and hexdrinker, so I can't use this option.
If you stop trying to oneshot them, you'll realize Hexdrinker isn't as much of a cockblock as it seems. Perhaps try trading first with your superior range, to get them to the point where you'll kill them through their Hexdrinker? Or poke it out and force a back.
That was fine with me, because there was always a way to deal with things. But now, it's so hard to put that in practice. Free movespeed, anti-warding, enough AD to push towers down, chasing options built-in. I would love to come bot and help them when my yasuo/Zed goes there, but how can I know if they are not waiting in my bush ? (I've had junglers sitting with the midlaner on the bush next to wolves, red side) How do I get there on time with a mage movespeed ?
You don't, unless you're Taliyah/Twisted Fate/Aurielion Sol, for the most part, anyway.
I feel like I have to waste gold and get a gunblade, now. Because it helps so much against all of this. Thus I wonder why mages have seen their only sustain item removed, with nothing to replace it.
Because people didn't really use it...?
EDIT : Oh, I forgot to mention, there is always the last option : pushing. But how ? I can push and endanger myself as much as I want, my base AS/AD is so low, even my ap doesn't help me to push as fast as an AD player. I have Anivia in mind, for instance.
What do you mean, 'how'?
Mages get the liberty of building a heavy mana CDR item (or mana/health) which makes their pushing far superior to AD. Except, yunno, Zed, but he's dumb. However, you get the chance to force good trades on a Zed who combo'd to waveclear (I believe it takes longer for him to regen his energy than it takes for your cooldowns, especially if you are building Morello's).
For example, with Anivia, ult the wave. Period. Let the Talon W and Q to waveclear. R the wave again. You can keep this up all day. Talon will have run oom by the third or fourth wave.
Mages do not have worse waveclear than AD's in any way, most can kill the entire wave in a single combo. AD's generally cannot do that.
MrPlantarbre1 votesOkay, I understand where my mistake is now, I need to create a window by pushing the wave and forcing spells.
Thank you very much. I must say, I've been playing since Zyra is out, but I may have gained bad habits by relying on heavy sustain builds.
Asayake 5150glow1 votesOkay, I understand where my mistake is now, I need to create a window by pushing the wave and forcing spells.
Forcing spells will get you an advantage, simply keeping the pressure high by pushing as you scale works too.
Although you may be outscaled.
Micbran1 votesDon't forget morde as one of the ruiners of spell vamp.
Darkdemon6531 votesWhich mages have had their sustain removed? The only one I can think of is the spell vamp from Ryze's ult.
Hethalean1 votesI think that he's referring to the Spellvamp item that only Vladimir ever bought. I forget it's name, but it was removed last year with the mage update.
OurLestrade1 votesWhich mages have had their sustain removed? The only one I can think of is the spell vamp from Ryze's ult.
Swain's lane sustain on the top of my head, that got absolutely dumpstered with his rework.
Magical Zoe1 votesSpell vamp was removed because no one even used it or used it correctly. And because it was pretty weak in its own sense.
rtbf2216514121 votesI'd like to know why sustain got removed from mages when ADC's benefit from it the most.
Erockandroll1 votesI'd like to know why sustain got removed from mages when ADC's benefit from it the most.
Like I said, Riot decided that they didn't like the Burst sustain that came from the mages Burst patterns.
But why do they allow ADC's an obnoxious amount of Sustain? IDK, maybe they just find it more oppressive on anyone else. (Maybe cause going from 10-100 in 5 seconds is problematic if it's a 5K HP tanks)
rtbf2216514121 votesLike I said, Riot decided that they didn't like the Burst sustain that came from the mages Burst patterns.
But why do they allow ADC's an obnoxious amount of Sustain? IDK, maybe they just find it more oppressive on anyone else. (Maybe cause going from 10-100 in 5 seconds is problematic if it's a 5K HP tanks)
I kinda just said the second part?
