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Is Sylas too OP?

Ratus Kyca··8 votes·13,807 views

Hello, I like to play LoL and I'd like to see it become better and better. But I think Sylas Sylas is a big problem for the game, because he's got a kit, that is almost independent on whether he gets R or not, in another words his Q, W, E, is strong enough. The more worrisome problem is his R. together with his kit he's almost unstoppable, because he can get R from champion, that has R very strong, which is balanced by his/her abilities. So OP kit and OP R (especially when it has low CD). For example Sylas can take R from Zyra, which is limited by having no gap closers and being squishy, and jump into enemy team and cast R in their midst. IMO he will be only OP or he will be too weak, I don't think there's another option. At the end I'd liek to say, not every new champion needs to have gap closer/ be very mobile. As Aurelion Sol main it feels like every new champion is his counter, because they're too mobile. I would like to see more champions with interesting and uniqe mechanics and great, but balanced kit. I sincerely hope, that i will see no more of mimicking something or stealing some abilities champions. Any comment is apreciated and if you don't agree with me it's ok. Thanks for your time and have a good day.

38 Comments

Dalick7 votes

He is the weakest champion upon release in the history of the game. He is very bad. Extremely bad. Like. I would rather had a soraka only building tears bad. I'm a plat player. Last night I diid a 2 man with my friend who is a master's midlaner. We were versing silvers. (Match making is weird) and our silver adc accidentally picked slyas. Master's player offered to trade. So now he is slyas mid. A master's player legitimately lost to a silver team, due to how bad the champion is. Look at winrate upon release of all champions. Again his is by far the best he lowest. He needs a massive buff. Like. +20-30 base damage over his whole kit. His q in fact is the lowest base damage of a lvl 1 ability in the game. He is now my permanent ban if my team wants to play him. Because I would rather not have to play karthus every game to try to carry 4v5. Riot understood his ult would be game breaking so resto f his kit is severely underwhelming.

Sir Bakesalot2 votes

I disagree with him being the weakest in the game at release, Elise was FAR worse, but he does feel weak imo especially early game

Dalick1 votes

Look at elise winrate upon release. he has a 18% winrate. lowest in histroy. It isnt about opinions, its about numbers. provable facts.

KMS Cyrekt1 votes

Where did you find 18% winrate? Champion GG sits him at 39%, Lolalytics he was 36%, LolMaster has him at 38%, etc. That puts him slightly higher winrate than release Bard was, who was at mid 30s. Plus, If he really had the lowest release winrate in Lol history (which IIRC was release Syndra at 27%), I'm surprised he wasn't hotfixed yet Galio was...

Still a weak champ imo but worst release champ in history, I don't think so

Edit: He was indeed hotfixed. But it happened two days ago so even before it there's no way he had 18%

the shy top1 votes

You wan't to give statistics then give the evidence. It's not hard. Where's this so called 'probable facts'?

Sir Bakesalot1 votes

I'd love to see your sources for his 18% winrate, Last time I checked it was at 38% (still awful, but trust me nothing as bad as release Syndra with 27% winrate)

Ratus Kyca2 votes

He might be weak in early game, but people are still learning how to play him. He's extremely strong in lategame teamfights, because his kit allows him to use stolen R's in much better way (because his very mobile), than the champion from who he stole it. Sylas' winrate is growing and winrate in lategame is much higher than in other parts of the game. Link to LoLAlytics, link to LoLMasters So technically against Sylas you DON'T want to group or pick champions with outstanding R's, because there's almost no counterplay.

i AM the Team1 votes

oh you mean this account? http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=BMF+POWEROFMIND the season 8 silver 3 account? oh let me guess..Its your smurf! [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

PortableEgg1 votes

Remember Akali winrate? Akali OP as fuck when someone can play her, but her winrate is shitty since not many people know how to play her to even like 80%+ of her potencial.

Same with Sylas, basic kit is broken since he got everything. Shield, Heal, CC, Sustained or burst dmg (depends on your build), waveclear and any ult when it is usefull enough. This makes his 1v1's just a pain but he cant carry when you cant utilize him correctly and this are like a very few people at this point after his release.

YuNameen5 votes

I completely agree. I feel the same way about him as I do Pyke in that he is super hard to punish and can basically go where he pleases. Try to punish him for not sticking with his team? Good luck. Try to kill him 1v1? Extremely broken heal makes trading with him on even ground extremely difficult.

I don't know his counters or who would be good at countering him, but even if he's not broken - he is certainly anti-fun to play against. Same with Akali, Katarina, Irelia, Pyke, Kaisa and the like.

With every rework and new champion they overload their kits and make these champions very annoying to play against. I mean Sylas gets a shield, knockup, dash, extremely low cooldowns and whatever ult he steals. The only counterplay is to not engage on these champions and wait for them to use their escape abilites - even then you have maybe a 5 second window to engage. It's really very heavily annoying.

I think the champions that annoy me the most are the one's who have very effective engage and very effective disengage on a very low cooldown.

Downvote me if you want, I couldn't care less.

Dalick3 votes

I don't know who you are playing. But I watched a lvl 14 bards 1v1 a master player on slyas lvl 18 (bard was silver) he is the the worst champion upon release in history of the game. Read my other comment

YuNameen1 votes

My post was not in reply to yours. Didn't even see it when I was writing mine - as far as I know I was the first reply to this thread. I'm giving my initial opinion. After reading up on him it seems that he is not very good against ranged champions. I don't play many ranged champs so my experience against Sylas has been not-so-fun.

PhDs Nuts5 votes

He's not OP, but his kit is ridiculously overloaded. He'll never be balanced if his kit stays the same.

KMS Cyrekt3 votes

I think you can honestly say the same with almost every recent champion / rework.

Fckjaxsuo43v3r2 votes

He still beats them all head on. His heal is superior to warwick's in low levels (base WW heal is around 40% of Q damage, and low level Q deals practically no damage).

Aerothal3 votes

its a certainly T champ. the idiot is on drugs and riot lets him cause his garbo unbalanceable champs sell well

KMS Cyrekt3 votes

He's extremely hard to pull off in lane as long as you don't put yourself in a position to get Ed in lane. His Q is kind of lacking in damage plus is hard to land raw, and while his heal is crazy, he needs to be super close to you to use it effectively. His ult is quite strong but everything else about him is seemingly underpowered.

High elo / competitive play, he might be a good counterpick champ against teams with tons of teamfighting ults, and he certainly has the capability to kill people, but it seems to be a lot less reliable and consistent than recent champs like, say, akali or irelia or aatrox.

His winrate is atrocious, sub 40% ATM. I do think it's slightly because he's a more team dependent character than ppl think / high skill cap, but he's definitely not very good right now imo

Ratus Kyca1 votes

IMO his low winrate is cause by people trying him to learn his mechanics. You can't expect champion to have good winrate on release, especially if his kit isn't so simple. The reason why I think he's op is, that he can steal R's from champions limited by their kit and mobility. For example Brand, Brand can't just jump into enemy team and cast R, he needs to get close enough, but Sylas has a lot of mobility, so he can do it easily. Same goes for Zyra, Amumu, Swain etc.

KMS Cyrekt1 votes

With the current state of the game I don't think that's going to be a problem, at least in high Elo. Teamfighting has gotten less and less important while the early game is becoming more and more important. Frankly, Sylas is kinda useless early game so it's gonna be easy for champs to snowball before he even gets the chance to shine.

Low Elo, since matches always drag out, sure. Maybe the Ult will be crazy especially since Brand and champs like that are so strong there, but even then, he's a seemingly difficult champion so you'd have to be a low Elo onetrick if you wanna use him effectively

Smyrage1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ratus Kyca,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5i3PsEBH,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-01-27T14:25:15.600+0000)

IMO his low winrate is cause by people trying him to learn his mechanics. You can't expect champion to have good winrate on release, especially if his kit isn't so simple. The reason why I think he's op is, that he can steal R's from champions limited by their kit and mobility. For example Brand, Brand can't just jump into enemy team and cast R, he needs to get close enough, but Sylas has a lot of mobility, so he can do it easily. Same goes for Zyra, Amumu, Swain etc.

That's his strength and weakness. Brand's ult sounds charming, but if you ever got to chance to play Sylas and pull it off, you'll soon realize that Brand's ult without Brand's passive is pretty garbage, because the ult is only good setting up a chain reaction in teamfights, which will nuke the enemy, but you can't do that without Brand's passive. Same goes for a few other champs, but he inherits the chosen ult's extra passive (if the said ult has such), so to say if you manage to get kill with Zed's ult, you will get AD.

His early game is arguable. With good mana management you can do it, but yeah, laning against champions like Syndra can be a tilting experience. He is generally strong against melee or low range characters. But I'm not sure it's correct to say that his early game is weak, because in jungle (I played him most in jungle), his early clear, while a bit slow, is actually pretty good. His ganking potential is on the point as well. His strongest phase in the game is the midgame, I wouldn't say he is really awesome in teamfights lategame, apart from stealing ultimates, because he can get focused down easily, so it is advised to buy some resistance on him.

It's too early to judge him. I personally like him and I'm going to invest time in honing my Sylas skills. His basic mechanics aren't that difficult to master, because there aren't so many and it's basically cycling between abilities and auto attacks. His R requires immense knowledge about the game and ultimates. That's why I presume so many people will give up on him eventually. You basically need to learn the other 142 ultimates in the game and how they interact with him. It's especially not easy to learn these special interactions, like Karma Nidalee Jayce Elise , who don't have proper ultimates.

PortableEgg2 votes

His Q has bad base dmg, but scales very good on ap.The only problem on him is his insane tankyness through a shield + a heal. No other champ in league who is a mage or bruiser has both, a shield and heal in his kit. The fact that he deals enough dmg to kill you in 1-2 rotations while naturally outsustaining any other champ makes him like an apc bruiser with his own support in his kit.

XyePie3 votes

Personally I think his kit is perfectly in tune right now and shouldn't be touched. But from what I've played against and as him, he is surprisingly weak compared to a lot of champs lol. People will post highlights of him but that's with every champ? People will be good at any champ regardless. And his stats are very low from what I'm hearing so. I don't think he should be nerfed or buffed.

I like his state right now! Super fun champ for me to play! Sylas

Aerothal1 votes

you are full of shit and you only think hes balanced cause you like to play him. whats your w/r?

XyePie1 votes

{quoted}

you are full of shit and you only think hes balanced cause you like to play him. whats your w/r?

this is quite the old comment LOL, literally when commented this when he was released. Also I don't even play him haha. He's in a good state right now i believe too.

the shy top3 votes

I feel weak and useless playing him. His auto attack on minions deal so little damage, his mana costs are way too high and/or his mana pool is too small.

Fckjaxsuo43v3r1 votes

Try playing Malz then, you'll see what a weak and useless champ feels like. His damage has been nerfed, everything is put into his voidlings that can be one shot and affected by AOE spells, his mana costs are super high, he has long cooldowns early game, he doesn't gain anything good from CDR items while no CDR items are good on him but don't resolve his problem of having long CD, and at level 13 or so I had barely 980 mana with an abyssal mask while losing 60-100 mana per spell, useless to say I couldn't do much even with a better stuff and being laner instead of jungler.

Meanwhile Sylas has high base stats compared with other ap bruisers, as much range on Q as Galio or so it seems, mobility, survivability, and can buy shield items and hextech gunblade to heal on everything, spirit visage to heal even more while being harder to kill and even full AP he's got high base HP or per level, while he can easily stomp most champions to get this exp advantage.

F1nanc33 votes

I just want to add my voice to this forum. Sylas having the cc, mobility, shield, scaling heals, all as accessible as they are is utterly ridiculous. The heal in particular is too much, it allows this champ to build full mage built but be just as tanky as a tahm or other tank champ, but with waaaaay more damage.

Riot please fix this.

Moonscourge2 votes

He is about as strong as a low ranged champion played in every single role besides ADC should be. I think people just haven't found the right build yet. You want to go full AP because he has good ratios but your range is so limited that you SHOULD go tanky.

Thats a Play2 votes

Im a silver player whos played around 15 games as Sylas and ive got to say he is by far the best when played as a Jungler. He doesn't get abused by his weak damage early in lane and although your early clear is pretty bad if you can get past that stage (which is fairly easy in low elo considering junglers often dont take advantage of your weak early) you can be a great asset to the team. I have a strategy of taking my buff and ganking mid at level 2 and it seems to be working great, his ganks are good and if their laner has a good ult they can be disgusting. Support ults are often OP and stealing them for a 3v2 gank provides alot of CC. I get my AP jungle item into lich bane and if were getting stomped go hybrid tank from there and if were winning i get a morellos first. I have a 67% win rate through 10 ranked games so far. Also on a side note almost nobody knows how to play against him, people arent prepared to get ulted by their ult yet and you can catch a lot of people off guard. He may be trash in higher elo but i think hes good right now in low elo, and considering his mechanics are gonna be extremely hard to master since theres so many possibilities for him, getting some practice before his inevitable buff could put you ahead of the curve in the future as well. Hes also extremely fun.

PortableEgg2 votes

Overall, he just doesnt fit into league. His basic Spellkit is far to broken. His heal is busted, he has a shield, he can CC, he got mid/long range waveclear and while he has enough dmg and low mana costs to stay in lane for a long time his basic tankyness gives him any possiblity to outtrade. Winrate isn't 100% everything guys. OFC if 20000 matches were played and he had 80% winrate or something like this he would be just obviously OP. Sylas can easily stomp like 75% of his lane opponents if he is played correctly. He is not a super hyper hard carry as some other champs so he can easy stomp his lane but in teamfights he will most likely be useless when he gets focused and 1-2 times cc'd. Thats why his winrate is so low. Not because he is weak, but he isnt just a good hyper carry that can easly take out 2-3 members of the enemy team.

Watching Nightblue or any other high elo player or pro player, they say his heal is far to strong and it is, he shouldnt have a heal in the first place. Heals in a Kit, you'll see this on support champs like Soraka, Rakan and stuff, but on a bruisermage having a huge AP Scaling Shield + a Scaling HP heal with even buffed heal when he is low? Hilarious. This is the worst champ riot has ever released, because his kit is utterly broken in 1vs1 but he is trash when getting focused by 2-3 people.

Just take his "when he is low he heals 2 times as much Dogshit" away or completly take his heal away and give him more dmg on his execute instead.

Fckjaxsuo43v3r1 votes

His execute should be an ultimate (imagine if Darius and Garen had the same CD as Sylas on their ults would you think they're balanced?), his heal should be halved at base and low hp (meaning low hp would be base heal from now and base heal would be half of base from now). Why does he have:

  1. Shield (counters all kind of damage including DOTs and ignite),
  2. dash (I think he has 2 of them),
  3. heal (plain stupid he heals more than Darius on a lower CD and without condition like DD's axe blade has to hit)
  4. 3 point and click spells, one of which has 2 casts (the one with heal).
  5. low mana costs and double activation on 2 of his spells.
  6. slow for easier maneuverability around the target.
  7. execute on a very low CD (even Irelia has a condition to execute).
  8. close to no cooldown between ults, and he can ult immediately after having point and clicked the one he wants (also absence of mana cost on stolen CD instead of 150 for Karthus to give an example).
  9. Galio's passive on top of all of it. Hell he can even use transforming ults and use these champs' full ult form to have even more capacity to attack 24/7 without any down time.
  10. I forgot his mini bump.

This champ can stick to you forever while massacring you, while healing himself on your face for the damage that went through his shield, all this just with QWE and R comes on top of it. How is that good champion design? It's like fusing Nasus, Darius, Riven and Aatrox and give the result even more range than his original inspirations...

5050BS1 votes

Well you dont play Him I can tell.

  1. not the first champ to have a shield, even one on a low CD
  2. E has a Dash, W has a leap to target like Talon Q
  3. It is not % HP so it is not like Darius, It does have conditions Sylas needs to be below 40% hps
  4. He has 2 Point and Click, The Heal (W) almost melee range and stealing an Ult (R) that then follows the rules of stolen Ult
  5. His Mana Costs are enough that he needs to buy a Mana Item else he will OOM all the time, Double activate on E and R but R does no damage or anything on first activate.
  6. Slow on Explosion of his Q (very ez to dodge) and its for skill expression.
  7. His W is not an Execute. It does bonus damage if the target he below 40%
  8. So Yes be can steal another Ult 9s after his last steal (with 40% CDR) but another enemy needs to be in range and someone he has not stolen from in ~3m (on average). Mana costs is ~75 mana for all Ults. This is because some ults have no cost and other are scaled to the mana pool of the champion. So for Sylas its just a flat ~75 which is a good cost for him mana pool. If he could not use it RIGHT away, what would be the point?
  9. Yes it is similar to Galio's passive, so? The transformation ults are because else the ult is useless.
  10. His mini stun is .5s and he is locked into an animation for .25s so it stuns him for 1/2 the stun on the enemy.

All in all Sylas is not a bad design. He needs a few buffs to bring him up in win rate (he is the lowest win rate champ in all roles currently)

His stun needs to be 1.5s (Yasuo's Tornado is 1.5s) His W (the heal) needs to proc bonus for both parts at 35% not 40%

His E Pull/Stun needs to do zero damage

His Q Explode needs to do 20% more damage.

hrooza dota 1 votes

i think his normal kit is overtuned but his ulti sound fine .

hope they dont touch his ulti

Ratus Kyca1 votes

The problem is his kit allows him to use other stolen R in ways, the other champion can't. Mostly champions with great R's are limited by mobility and he isn't. He can jump into enemy team and stun/kill them all without giving a chance to reaction.

hrooza dota 1 votes

will thats why his kit is overtuned

he pretty much have everything in his normal kit that almost any ulti he steal will work perfectly on him

Sergeant HbA1c1 votes

Giving a champion everything is bad design. Full stop.

What really irks me is the way his ult works. The range, coupled with the fact that it's a targeted ability, makes it extremely difficult (if not outright impossible) to punish. He needs nerfs all across his kit, and they need to make his ultimate a skill shot. It costs no mana to use an enemy's ultimate (which is 100 base for almost everyone), and yet he can use this skill for 75 mana on CD without fear of missing the target he wants to Hijack from?

Come on Riot...

IamLeegallyBlind1 votes

The only thing I despise in his kit is his W. It's incredibly difficult to duel out a Sylas when they can just heal like half their HP and if you're low, it does more damage. It's like old Irelia E, but it sustains/damages instead.

Psyhas

http://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=Psyhas

by far i am no smurf or any good in mid lane but this score says it all definitely not too weak first time playing him in ranked and by god is he good insane solo and team fights can be pulled off with him as well. i dont know maybe its just me the champion just clicked on me im afraid to say this because i like the champion as he stands and at least against my opponents he need to be nerfed maybe in gold not so much but i had no problems in lane farming or out damaging in lane and even 2v1 pre lvl 6 double kills

Sylas [katarina-love] [sg-lux]

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