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Tristana Passive Nerf

Fluff of Death··19 votes·4,589 views
Patch 5.2 Notes

You know, I was okay with the removal of grievous wounds, the Damage over time effect, the visual overhaul, the nerfs to damage and speed, her stat nerfs (Save the base +2 damage increase, whoo), even the giant ears and tank top (Though really, I liked the armored version waaaaay better), I was fine with all of it. But seeing that her passive is decreased? That shit is not cool. Her ENTIRE point was that, after slogging through 17 levels of grinding and hell, she gets to have those few minutes of glory where she out-ranges pretty much everyone else (Oh wait, no, Jinx is either on par, or slightly lower then her by what, lvl 7 if you put all the points to it, or Kogmaw with two abilities, but no, no range nerfs there to my knowledge.) So yeah, nerfing her range, the one thing she gets by making it to lvl 18, so that she loses that one nice little bonus (THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT OF THE PASSIVE) is just idiotic. If your going to fuck with her auto attack range, something that she has to wait the entire game to reach (Compared to the other two carries who get it way the fuck earlier), then god damn man, give her something more then a .5 AD ratio on one ability on a 16 second CD.

41 Comments

Meep Man10 votes

Well, I must comment that such a change to her E has heavily buffed her playstyle unless you were a fan of AP Tristana. Now she has an AD scaling ability along with her basic attacks which already were extremely effective. She still has the highest attack range in the game without ability modification however. It makes you wonder, however, why you should pick Tristana, over Caitlyn. Caitlyn has 650 at all levels while Tristana only becomes higher at around Level 13 or 14.

Fluff of Death2 votes

AP Trist was amusing, but not the actual playstyle. Her E alone having a AD ratio is nice, but without the rest of her kit having AD, its more like a consolation prize. If your going to give AD ratios, give them to her Ult and W as well, not the thing that, honestly? Before the E change on AD Trist was little more than an annoyance and a Lifesteal debuffer. And 9x17 is 153, 7x17 = 119. They chopped off 34 range, which puts her, again, to my knowledge, below Kogmaw and Jinx, both of whom get their max range at a MUCH lower level. Trade offs they get for quicker access? Kogmaw pays mana and has a timer. Jinx pays mana. Trist pays in levels.

Jungle Lux God7 votes

Kog doesn't pay mana for his range boost.

Fluff of Death1 votes

Correct, something I was mistaken about. Which really doesn't help the case, but it is something I got wrong.

Narasimha6 votes

Kog has a cd on his. Jinx has to pay mana and gives up AS for it.

Trist still gets it for free.

Ysengrimm1 votes

What Jinx "gives up" against Trist on level 18 is 0.09 attack speed, so a difference of one in ten seconds. Not a whole lot. And considering Jinx gets her attacks do 110% damage dps-wise it comes to be the same. AND JINX DOES AOE. Nothing to compare to there.

As for mana, lategame you will have enough to shoot rockets through the whole teamfight, and nothing else matters much.

OyddAWqJ5r1 votes

AD Trist never had any ratios. Now she has one. Thus to not severely cut base stats which is what Trist is known for they instead are cutting the AD ratio on it. Unless you'd rather more AS reductions? Didn't think so.

5G8Nri0B541 votes

Caitlyn has 650 at all levels while Tristana only becomes higher at around Level 13 or 14.

Because Tristana gains more range from around levels 13 or 14 and proceeds to get even more up to 18?

That and one thing is undeniable, she scales much harder than Caitlyn.

Ysengrimm1 votes

How does she scale harder than Caitlyn? The only difference now (beside the 19 range Trist still has at level 18) is Trist's Q steroid, but Cait has naturally more attack speed making that difference matter less.

Other than that, both Trist's E and R lategame are a waste of time because a single AA with a crit will do more damage than those skills. And the knockback on R is mostly defensive. Cait, on the other hand, has her R to snipe those who run away out of AA range and her W stays relevant because it's a low cooldown CC trap. much more valuable late than Trist E.

5G8Nri0B543 votes

How does she scale harder than Caitlyn? The only difference now (beside the 19 range Trist still has at level 18) is Trist's Q steroid, but Cait has naturally more attack speed making that difference matter less.

You just answered it yourself, she actually has a steroid. That in itself is massive already.

Other than that, both Trist's E and R lategame are a waste of time because a single AA with a crit will do more damage than those skills.

Also, by late game, E's there for it's massive AoE damage, unless crits can somehow splash as well, it likely won't reach the same amount of damage as an E will, not to mention crits won't damage turrets.

Her R is not about damage by late game. It's an amazing self-peel.

One other thing that lets Tristana scale harder late game than Cait is because while both champions have more self-peels than normal, Tristana's are MUCH more effective. A far longer jump range, and actual knockback that sends the targets far far away.

5G8Nri0B545 votes

I'm okay with all her nerfs. Why?

Rocket Jump + Strong Knockback + Passive that provides above average AA range

She still has all that at the end of the day. They're toned down, but she's still ridiculously safe compared to, say...Varus or MF.

ImHerVoice1 votes

you're comparing her to fucking champions that are completely different in playstyle bro.

you should at least compare her to jinx or cait.

5G8Nri0B544 votes

They may be different ADC's, but they're ADCs all the same who must face off against each other 90% of the time they're picked. I specifically picked those two because it highlights exactly why they're always getting crowded out by other ADC's with either more range, more self-peel, or more mobility. People can say Tristana was harshly nerfed all they like, but even if Tristana will become on the weaker side of things, she'll still be in a much better place than some others. More importantly, if she's undertuned, just buff her.

B'sides, I already compared her to Jinx and Cait in the other post. The nerfs were all needed.

exiledFromBadmen1 votes

Trist is an hypercarry, Cait is a lane bully. You should compare her with Kog, Vayne, Twitch or Jinx.

Yandere Carry1 votes

{quoted}

I'm okay with all her nerfs. Why?

Rocket Jump + Strong Knockback + Passive that provides above average AA range

She still has all that at the end of the day. They're toned down, but she's still ridiculously safe compared to, say...Varus or MF.

compared to say, Cait who gets multiple high ad scaling skills, is her range all game, and is overbearing in lane.

Rinky Dinky4 votes

She will still outrange most adc's....

All of the people crying have not even played or tried to understand how POWERFUL her new E is.

Tristana now has an AD SCALING ability.

Not only that, but with only a PD and her Q, she gets 2.1 attack speed at level 15 - 18. So stop bitching, those nerfs were needed BECAUSE of her new ability.

Her W also does A FUCKTON of damage if used properly with e.

This rework was a buff to her early and midgame, and I guess a nerf to her lategame, althoughI honestly just see it as a buff overall.

If you have not done the math or even played the new Trist, then try not to take offense to this, but stfu

Edit: Did not think about Kog and Jinx's range increaserino's. Fixed.

Fluff of Death1 votes

Tristana base range 543. Draw a bead passive at 7 per lvl (not counting lvl 1) = +119 range. So at Lvl 18 (Repeat, Level 18) = 662 range.

Kog (lets say 8 for simplicity, as I do not remember the ability numbers) has 500 range. At lvl 5 Biobarrage, he has +210 range, for 710, at no mana cost, for 8 seconds.

Jinx (Again lets say lvl 8) has base 525 range. Lvl 5 Switcheroo has +175 range, for 700 range, at 20 mana per shot.

So shes both lower range, and still, I repeat, *still * has to wait to level 18 to get it.

Her E has a .5 AD ratio. You only get the increased AD ratio by then hitting the marked person 4 times in 4 seconds.

Her attack speed is again, still lower then it would be because her attack speed got cut in half again, after being cut in half before. Even with PD and a maxed Q, its lower. Which hurts her E as well.

And if the problem had been her lategame, I could understand. But when the character is literally made to be a lategame carry (As shown by all her abilities scaling up with levels), then you might have a point. But since her ONLY ability is the reworked one to have AD ratios, no, she has a weaker early and mid game, as again, she is failing to scale with her primary attack power of AD on 3 of her 4 spells.

Okay, 1 of her 3 spells, as her Q is just a AS steroid.

5G8Nri0B545 votes

Tristana base range 543. Draw a bead passive at 7 per lvl (not counting lvl 1) = +119 range. So at Lvl 18 (Repeat, Level 18) = 662 range.

Kog (lets say 8 for simplicity, as I do not remember the ability numbers) has 500 range. At lvl 5 Biobarrage, he has +210 range, for 710, at no mana cost, for 8 seconds.

Jinx (Again lets say lvl 8) has base 525 range. Lvl 5 Switcheroo has +175 range, for 700 range, at 20 mana per shot.

So shes both lower range, and still, I repeat, still has to wait to level 18 to get it.

That sounds more than fair enough. You are comparing one tiny aspect of their whole. Because you completely neglected the fact that Tristana is the only one of the three who have ANY answer against assassins/bruisers who jump into her face at all...let alone the fact that she has TWO answers to rely on.

At the very most you can just say they half-assed it because her W and R are still AP scaling magical abilities for some reason. But her range nerf was justified.

Rinky Dinky1 votes

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Fluff of Death1 votes

The point I am making is that, unlike the other two, who can get that massive range by the mid or end of the laning phase, Trist has to wait all game in order to get it. If Trist had the same leveling up mechanics as those two, I could see an argument for that. As it stands, she only outranges everyone else if the* game lasts long enough.*

So no, I dont see how lowering something that she might never get to is in any way a justifiable thing.

AccountaBilabudy2 votes

She fucking garbage urgot tier now now. Rito secretly putting that passive nerf through hoping no one would notice. Scum bags.

Fluff of Death3 votes

Pretty much. This is exactly what I was worried about when I saw her being played in the LCS. Riot ALWAYS nerfs the fuck out of the main champs, and this time they did it under the guise of a overhaul. WTF Riot.

Rinky Dinky1 votes

sigh

Hellish Prophecy2 votes

Ok.....guess I got to be the first one to ask. Am I the only fucking one that gets annoyed every time someone says "Urgot-tier"? I have played as and against Urgot. Especially in URF....(Oh god the war dreams of AP Urgot....) but seriously, playing as Urgot was the funniest goddamn thing I did. Tanks? ARMOR SHREDDED AND POKED DOWN! Carries? Target Aquired. Firing Q repeatedly. Honestly Urgot is actually pretty damn good.

Rinky Dinky1 votes

People are idiots dude lmao

Specifically the "wheredowhoresgo" guy.

As if his Name didnt imply so already, he has proved it quite a bit recently on these boards :/

JØJł1 votes

Yep, in my match of pororam, our urgot got a pentakill and pretty much carried us from there lol.

RazorTS2 votes

Passive and attack speed nerfs, this remake is over the top, or rather in line with other remake screw ups

SmokingPuffin1 votes

I'll have to play the new kit to be sure, but my initial reaction is that the new E is totally cool, but not worth the stuff she's being asked to give up.

Fluff of Death1 votes

Pretty much my thinking. The new E is nice, the AD ratio especially, but not worth the losses.

5G8Nri0B541 votes

I think that was the intention. This is an obvious nerf, and it was much needed. I say this as someone who abused Tristana a LOT the last season.

My only criticism? They only touched her E. imo, her Rocket Jump and Buster Shot should have ditched the AP scaling and just became physical abilities that scales off AD as well.

SmokingPuffin1 votes

Live Tristana wasn't exactly ruling the world. I mean, she's no Varus, but she's also no Graves. I don't see why she would be an obvious target to nerf.

I imagine they retained the AP ratios because AP Tristana is a popular off-spec. They did a pretty good job of retaining the huge burst damage, but making it not so easily applied as the old AP Tristana.

Auz the Ripper1 votes

Why was cass reworked? Why does riot do literally anything they do?

SmokingPuffin1 votes

Cass was reworked because she was in purgatory -- the permanently undertuned, not allowed to be competitive place they send champions that have unhealthy play patterns. They were hoping to create a more focused kit that was less overpowering in lane and better at scaling into the late game.

I'm not going to say the rework was a complete success, but that's the motivation.

As to the more general question, that's borderline meaning of life stuff and you'll have to ask someone else =D

Ysengrimm1 votes

I think the best way to go would be remove her E completely and give her back the old range and Q speed. Giving her SOME pressure in lane is pointless and counterintuitive to her identity. Let her be the siege ADC she has been for all of the 3 years that Ive been playing League...

Losing range to Cait level and under Jinx is NOT COOL. And the jump-to-melee incentive? laughable and a noobtrap.

HigeR1 votes

Well, to be honest every champion with high range has to expend some mana in order to use it. Kog's and Twitch are even limited by a time frame.

The one who sticks out now is mostly Caitlyn since she has huge range for free... though, well, you could say she doesn't have any steroid I guess

ecneregilleb1 votes

34 range is really not a huge nerf. She still gets increased range over time, and she sustained that nerf in exchange for 2 additional new ratios. Her gameplay has evolved... try to adjust and adapt first before bitching. Its been on live servers for less than a single day at this point in time. Not to mention the amount of time she spent on the PBE...

Fluff of Death1 votes

{quoted}

34 range is really not a huge nerf. She still gets increased range over time, and she sustained that nerf in exchange for 2 additional new ratios. Her gameplay has evolved... try to adjust and adapt first before bitching. Its been on live servers for less than a single day at this point in time. Not to mention the amount of time she spent on the PBE...

It may not sound like much, but it is a noticeable difference in game. And it is ONE new ratio. ONLY the E got AD ratios, and she took nerfs to armor, AS, and health in addition to the range. Yet I only complain about the range nerf because of points I have made several times in this post of active vs passive range growth.

ecneregilleb1 votes

E received its ratio, as well as the damage boost on W when an explosive charge is on the target. It may not seem like a ratio, but in essence, it is a damage source that scales (the definition of a ratio). That's 2.

Fluff of Death1 votes

{quoted}

E received its ratio, as well as the damage boost on W when an explosive charge is on the target. It may not seem like a ratio, but in essence, it is a damage source that scales (the definition of a ratio). That's 2.

A ratio that only happens when you have already planted the E on your foe, and doesn't actually scale with the attack (As the W has no AD ratios), merely *activates *it the E explosive, which in turn, only detonates with the scaling it has from the X number of AA's you get stacked. That's one.

ecneregilleb1 votes

You are clearly denying the fact that it is still a new damage source and writing it off as if it doesn't exist. My point is that it is still an additional damage source that she did not have previously and should still be accounted for in terms of her power shifting. All in all, the 34 range nerf still does not hurt her at all taking into consideration the powershifting of other abilities to compensate.

/end argument.

Fluff of Death1 votes

No, I am denying that 2 of her spells have AD ratios when one does not further the scaling damage, merely activates the charge from a prior power, which was your point from earlier. And yet again i have to reiterate this point. Active vs passive scaling is a major difference between the 3 longest range ADCs in the game. If 2 of those 3 can get 700 range in the *laning *phase, while the 3rd has to get it by the 25+ minute mark, then clearly the one that has to invest the largest amount of time should be able to have a bonus over the others if she manages to reach that point. Is this somehow a unfair point to make? And just for the last bit: When the scaling range affects her new powers range, yes, it does in fact, hurt her power, regardless of the shift.

/dont be that guy.

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