Can we stop pretending Zed isn't toxic?

Veilius··13 votes·1,933 views

Forces you into building a Zhonya. Must be locked down 100-0 to be killed reliably. Banned in like every game. Insanely low counterplay.

Healthy assassin? Nah man. Needs a smaller window to teleport to his shadows to invite some kind of counterplay.

48 Comments

Sooko10 votes

Nobody pretends he isn't toxic asides from Riot or his mains though (and a little minority who either plays Malzahar or other assassins that don't have immobility or mana problems). I've seen Zed being called the epitome of unfun hundreds of times here on boards.

The part of him that Riot calls healthy isn't the endless poke and huge safety in his kit, its the fact that his kills happen once every 80 seconds (late game) because he needs a full combo to kill someone.

Plus Unhealthy doesn't mean the same as Overpowered (even though these two sometimes contribute to each other). Example: I prefer to fight a Sejuani than a Fizz any day of the week, even though the first is insanely strong, and Fizz is... well, nothing as horrible as what he once was.

I'm not defending Zed (I'd never do it as a former Veigar main), just saying a few facts as to why I think Riot calls him healthy.

Voluug132 votes

I am a Malzahar main and I hate Zed on principle alone. I could have left the game if Malza wasnt my main, he is my ''try to dive me under my tower mtherfucler ninja'' champion.

ModAcademy Kayn1 votes

Unless he is smart and grabs both item 3140 AND item 3155

Voluug132 votes

Then I achieved a good part of my purpouse and made him build those. I can always focus down his top/jg and chunk any of them in 4s. Meanwhile Zed is there with an AD item less. Rylai+Liandri+max level W is deadly.

IllumanatiObama1 votes

Might as leave if you hate the game so much. All you do is complain about champion's the majority of people call OP and other forms of uniformed bs.

Titanium702 votes

Well nothing to add here. Perfect explanation. ^^

I´ll join Voluug13 here - as a Swain main, my problems with Zed are quiet small - exept the traditional Bot-Roam-Double-Kill #Kata x'D - but his Laning is so unspeakable BORING to play against! q.q + The fact that i cant do nothing in Late to stop his Assassination-Attempt due to limited CC/Burst.

JustMyBassCannon8 votes

Can we stop pretending that the community has any idea what toxic actually means in regards to a champion's design?

Forces you into building a Zhonya.

Because that's the only counter-play mages have to him. (no, it's not, but you're too fucking lazy to think of anything else)

Must be locked down 100-0 to be killed reliably.

Just like every-fucking-thing else

Banned in like every game.

FotM gets banned a lot because some whiny players don't know how to vs him.

Insanely low counterplay.

You use that word, but I don't think it means what you think it means.

acepil0t2 votes

I like how you provide an unbiased variety of examples to support your claims.

qetzel3 votes

As the OP did (insert troll face)

Voluug131 votes

Asking a Riot apologist to show an objective analysis?

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

Asking a long-time player and forum-roamer to give a shit when he has dealt with too many people in the past to bother trying to be objective about an FotM champion?

You could not pay me to give a damn when the OP sounds like every other biased, bullshitting scrub that won't accept any response that disagrees with their train of thought.

The5lacker5 votes

Zed's problems don't stem from his ability to kill a single target safely. Zed's problems stem from the fact that he's quite possibly the safest assassin in the game, with strong harass, strong escapes, and incredible farming/pushing potential.

I'd much rather they focus on those areas (though I will say, reducing both Shadow durations to 3 seconds isn't something I would necessarily object to.)

B3ER5 votes

I don't think toxic is the word you're looking for. Try obnoxious. It's not like Zed as a champion rages at you and tells you to uninstall.

Voluug132 votes

Inb4 ''git good'' coming from Zed mains because hard truth has been spoken.

You forgot his manaless, easily spammed on cd, ranged waveclear no other assasin has.

Or ungankeability without you baiting him closer to your tower, potentiall dying while he can get away with his ult.

Basically you need to have a perfect gank to have a chance to gank him.

Balanced.

Veilius2 votes

{quoted}

Inb4 ''git good'' coming from Zed mains because hard truth has been spoken.

You forgot his manaless, easily spammed on cd, ranged waveclear no other assasin has.

Or ungankeability without you baiting him closer to your tower, potentiall dying while he can get away with his ult.

Basically you need to have a perfect gank to have a chance to gank him.

Balanced.

TL;DR WAY TOO SAFE.

IllumanatiObama2 votes

For the love of christ, if you people hate zed so much, just pick Kayle. She crap's all over Zed.

Voluug131 votes

Yeah its not like Riot hasnt beaten Kayle to a pulp with the nerfbat, right?

Oh wait, they did.

Too bad.

IllumanatiObama1 votes

She still has her ult, outpushes Zed and can protect her carries. Forgot about that did you?

BeerOfRoot48432 votes

Hating on Zed is too easy. Somebody needs to come up with new reasons to hate Zed besides having to rush Zhonya's or whatever. We're beating a dead horse at this point.

acepil0t1 votes

How about his 25% AD steroid? That's complete BS too.

BeerOfRoot48431 votes

Good job! Anyone else?

IllumanatiObama1 votes

MasterYi has one yet no one complains about that. And it does true damage when E is active.

Voluug131 votes

Or his extremely safe waveclear/pushing/farming manaless low cd tool?

Or his ungankeability?

Or his out-of-jail card on his assasination ult?

Godhri2 votes

I don't understand. He's not so OP that he can't be beat by say... Lux or Orianna or any number of other AP mids. Just because people haven't learned to dodge, not walk so close to the shadow, etc. SMH. Yea you kinda have to build Zhonyas to be on the safe side, but how is it unfun to actually have a challenging lane?

Azirion Sol1 votes

{quoted}

Inb4 ''git good'' coming from Zed mains because hard truth has been spoken.

You forgot his manaless, easily spammed on cd, ranged waveclear no other assasin has.

Or ungankeability without you baiting him closer to your tower, potentiall dying while he can get away with his ult.

Basically you need to have a perfect gank to have a chance to gank him.

Balanced.

Git good

Voluug131 votes

Git good at replying at the actual comment, please.

Voluug131 votes

Bias please. There is a diffence between ''challenge'' lane and ''one sided assasination fest with low counterplay thanks to low-risk high reward champion'' lane.

IllumanatiObama1 votes

You seem to be biased. Tank meta craps on Zed, he can't kill something with over 200 armor and 4000 health. Hell, he's barely played in LCS anymore and the times he does get played, he loses because he get's focused down and dies instantly.

Godhri1 votes

Well of course it's biased silly. It's my OPINION. Opinions are biased by definition. In my OPINION, if people improved upon their dodging skills and laning mechanics (such as wave control/ positioning/ etc.) then they won't feel like it is so one sided. I've personally never laned against a Zed who I couldn't beat in lane (except when I was in Silver, but I'm higher ranked now and more experienced).

You want to beat Zed in lane? It's not about who you use (although that could be a huge factor) but more so about how you use. Work on your laning mechanics. Learn how to wave control and apply appropriate lane pressure at the right time. This is how you win a lane against him.

IllumanatiObama1 votes

Don't bother, this dude is the epitome of a moron and obviously can't handle one champ.

GetBoomedOn1 votes

No. Git gud.

TheDráco1 votes

item 3157 Is a cancer item that EVERY AP mid laner buys regardless. But yeah Zeds skill ceiling needs to be toned down.

Voluug131 votes

Yeah, lets remove it, damaging the weak AP mids too!

Its not like DFG wasnt built by Veigar or Mordekaiser. Only Kata, Syndra and Le Blanc every bought it, right?

#GoodBalance

IllumanatiObama1 votes

There are so many champs that utterly crap on Zed right now in the tank meta. Tank Junglers lock him down hard and add that to many mids that can fight him.

this guyUrgot, this guy Chogath, this chickDiana, this dude as wellHecarim, herFiora, Also herRiven basically his worst nightmare Kayle, after he get stacks Nasus, Ahri gives him problems, Jayce he can go toe to toe with him, Viktor lasers and tons of mana, Annie this god forsaken thing, Heimerdinger Will never die to Zed ever, can't get near herKarma, Shield blocks all his damageOrianna, Yasuo, can fight back, Vladimir basically unkillable, much worse than him, Lissandra obvious, Rumble no mana problems and builds tanky, MonkeyKing strongest level 2 in the game, Pantheon this giant a-hole, and the list goes on.

Veilius2 votes

{quoted}

There are so many champs that utterly crap on Zed right now in the tank meta. Tank Junglers lock him down hard and add that to many mids that can fight him.

this guyUrgot, this guy Chogath, this chickDiana, this dude as wellHecarim, herFiora, Also herRiven basically his worst nightmare Kayle, after he get stacks Nasus, Ahri gives him problems, Jayce he can go toe to toe with him, Viktor lasers and tons of mana, Annie this god forsaken thing, Heimerdinger Will never die to Zed ever, can't get near herKarma, Shield blocks all his damageOrianna, Yasuo, can fight back, Vladimir basically unkillable, Katarina much worse than him, and the list goes on.

"Gives him problems"

Hillarious. What makes Zed bs is his insane about to wave clear/utility yet the safety to be almost ungankable without suppression. Most of these "counters" rely on skill shots to deal with zed, who is naturally elusive and difficult to land skillshots on. Not that his most defininig ability that is un-deterred by ANY escape or blink effect is targetable... He is far too SAFE for his abilities.

Voluug131 votes

Lets not forget Riot's crusade for the Removal Rework of point-and-click ablities.

IllumanatiObama1 votes

Big whoop. Ryze post rework still has his W which is point and click and Lulu still has silence. Also point and click

IllumanatiObama1 votes

His shadow is on a high cooldown for most of the game (16 seconds last I checked), he is rather easy to juke and his only form of poke is his Q. Once all of that's gone, that's when you move up and make him pay for it by chunking him. His abilities are all relatively easy dodge too so it's not like he can land his combo as easily as any of these picks.

Voluug131 votes

Urgot: Counterpick, soon to be nerfed. Cho'gath: Counterpick, soon to be nerfed Diana: Skill lane. Hecarim: Such a good midlaner! Fiora: Her ult gets nullified by his. Riven: ''skill'' lane. Ahri: Nerfed. Nasus: What earlygame? Also nice Midlaner. Kayle: Nerfed. Jayce: Skill lane. Heimerdinger: Nerfed. Annie: Short ranged inmobile burst champion with poor waveclear against izi farming assasin with easy roam. Karma: Shield: 80 / 120 / 160 / 200 / 240 (+ 50% AP) so stronk. Orianna: Athene's nerf says no. Yasuo: anyone can fight back? Vlad: hahahahaha, with his earlygame? Zed can get kill by level 3 and pushlane just as hard. Kata: ''Skill lane'', most Zeds die because they know they have no CC and still try to kill her head on.

To hammer home the fact you are completly clueless and ignorant, you didnt even mention Old Zilean, Malzahar, Swain or Lissandra.

IllumanatiObama1 votes

Because those are obvious, and I'm talking about these champs in general, not just mid laners. And as I recall, Fiora's ult nullifies his as well.

Voluug131 votes

Fiora's ult cant cancel his because its invulnerability, its untargetability. The base damage will still happen, and any damage Fiora took first too, including AoE.

IllumanatiObama1 votes

and that's you buy this item 3140. It's cheap and nullifies Zed's ult completely, and add the fact unless Zed lands the full combo within those 3 seconds she's untargetable, the full damage doesn't go off.

Voluug131 votes

Cute counterplay! Oh wait, thats called counterbuild in the first place.

IllumanatiObama1 votes

Still removes all his kill potential, And Ahri wasn't nerfed, she was buffed thanks to the added movement speed on Q. Heck, she picked more and has a higher win rate than Zed. And Ori can still take on Zed because Ahtene's got buffed.

BRBGTGBOWFLEX1 votes

Zed's fine. Tons of counterplay since the huge nerf to shadows that happened around S3 worlds. He's a good champ, but the only reason for the rise in his popularity is the huge nerfs to mage assassins.

Dies to Wolves1 votes

{quoted}

Forces you into building a Zhonya.

woe me, I'm being "forced" to buy one of (if not the) best items in the game

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