Buff Sivir

Jeedos·Jun 29, 2017·37 votes·3,088 views

Buff Sivir - She's clearly one of the weakest ADCs.

Attack Speed growth stat changed to 2.6% (from 1.6%) - (extra 18% attack speed @ level 18 - about 0.11 extra AS by lvl 18 - this compensates for her R passive nerf throughout the game)
Boomerang Blade (Q) - damage now resets upon reaching maximum distance (you could cap its damage to minions to prevent abuse cases of early waveclear - but I suppose given it's mana cost and high cooldown compared to Piltover Peacemaker, Piercing Light etc may not be necessary)
Spell Shield (E) - now procs Fleet of Foot (passive) upon successfully blocking an enemy ability

TL;DR Buff - fanks.

60 Comments

Zane ZephyrJun 29, 201714 votes

Well, her AS/level is shit because of her ult passive and her W being on a low CD later in the game

I think maybe 25 more range on her aa's would help her a bit and wouldn't break her

I also think she just flat out needs a new passive because her current one is near useless/unnoticeable

khorneyJun 29, 20172 votes

the issue with the attack speed passive is that it really only helps you if u can hit mulplte things. say ur in 1v1 your w wont help u

Iźuku MidoriyaJun 30, 20173 votes

you still get bonus attack speed on 3 autos in a 1v1

khorneyJun 30, 20171 votes

that doesnt count because compared to say anythign that bounces vs 1v1 2 different things

JeedosJun 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

you still get bonus attack speed on 3 autos in a 1v1

Yeah? And? They do no extra damage and outside of Q you have no damage to help you out.

JeedosJun 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

you still get bonus attack speed on 3 autos in a 1v1

It's only 35% @ level 6, which only brings you up to about 1.0 attack speed without any boots. It's quite lacklustre for 1v1 fighting.

Iźuku MidoriyaJun 30, 20171 votes

i mean shes not a duelist, her main identity is she has good wave clear with a spell shield

Zane ZephyrJun 30, 20171 votes

But what i'm saying is that since her W is an attack reset at a very low CD later in the game also boosted by her ult passive

and on the basis of it being an attack reset it will help you because if you have high crit chance it can easily turn the fight around or heal you a lot if you have lifesteal

And i'm just merely stating that that's the reason for her AS/level being terrible, it's the same case for tristana with her having her Q as an attack speed steroid, the base attack speed has to be gutted for compensation

khorneyJun 30, 20171 votes

who cares hers is reliable.

Anu3isIIJun 30, 20171 votes

It is also an Auto-Attack reset, allowing her to burst her opponents. I still remember old Sivir, who sometimes built Trinity Force, and chuncked everyone with Auto-W-Auto...

khorneyJun 30, 20171 votes

i built siver on hit lol sure not a lot of 1v1 power but team fighting power u raped. runaans and rageblade caused your w to strike like triple the amount

JeedosJun 30, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zane Zephyr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5Ic6hFgA,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-06-29T17:15:26.381+0000)

Well, her AS/level is shit because of her ult passive and her W being on a low CD later in the game

I think maybe 25 more range on her aa's would help her a bit and wouldn't break her

I also think she just flat out needs a new passive because her current one is near useless/unnoticeable

I'm aware of that, but her attack speed growth is still dismal.

25 range would be nice, it wouldn't fix her issues though.

I agree Fleet of Foot is rarely useful.

McMacknashJun 29, 20174 votes

First time ever posting here. But Sivir is my favorite champ so why not.

I think the E change is a great idea. Anything that procs her passive more often is welcome and makes her more fun to play.

Her Q has been pretty weak for years. One thing I think would make it more powerful, without needing to increase the damage at all, would be to increase the projectile speed of the Q. That way you have a higher chance of landing it when an enemy overextends outside of a minion wave. Right now, it travels so slowly that it's pretty easy to dodge. Landing a full Q (without any reduction from minions) deals good damage, but it doesn't happen very often at all. Make Q travel faster and you will land it more, and experience more of those satisfying Q executions!

One thing about Sivir that I've heard others mention, but I don't think a lot of people appreciate, is how strong she is late game in team fights because of her W (ricochet). If you build Infinity Edge, Essence Reaver, Rapid Fire Cannon and Statik Shiv you're at 100% crit chance and 30% CDR (40% with Maw, blue buff, runes, etc), and every single ricochet bounce deals full crit damage (250% damage from IE). You end up landing so many SLAMS on backline squishies that they never see coming. It's secretly OP. But her damage is definitely on the mediocre end during laning phase, with no CC, so it's not easy to get fed and reach a late game build very quickly...

Zane ZephyrJun 30, 20171 votes

Get a deaths dance on her. It completes the CDR cap, and if you get a PD instead of a RFC/shiv your dueling potenial is unreal and your healing will be insane if youre by a minion wave with 100% crit

NymzoJun 29, 20172 votes

She needs a gameplay rework more than anything else really.

JeedosJun 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

She needs a gameplay rework more than anything else really.

The fundamentals of her gameplay are fine, she saw loads of competitive play in S5, to the extent she got the victorious skin. She's just been nerfed since and ignored since the meta has shifted.

RainbowIceeJun 29, 20173 votes

She doesn't need gameplay rework she's fine as is. She needs tweaking though, her ult allows for chase but her kit doesn't really fond well with it so all she needs probably is an integrated Phase on her kit to allow for this charge.

ArakadiaJun 29, 20173 votes

She is known for being mild in solo Q or the queen of LCS. On top of that she barely feels like a Tomb Raider, she is not at all thematic.

Zane ZephyrJun 30, 20171 votes

that's what her passive is, it gives MS when you attack or hit someone with your Q

StoryDuckJun 30, 20172 votes

Yeah, Sivir is really weak at this time and needs some love. Your ideas seem nice.

ElsewiseJun 29, 20171 votes

The E buff is interesting, but gut reaction is this would add a bit too much power for disengaging.

JeedosJun 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

The E buff is interesting, but gut reaction is this would add a bit too much power for disengaging.

I'm not saying give all 3, just some suggestions to add a little bit of power to Sivir's kit, The Q change is the most needed - for Sivir's early waveclear as well as her fighting. If she hits more than 1-2 minions with her Q, it does negligable damage. Admittedly, it does have one of the highest base damages in the game for a basic ability, but that can be toned down if it had a % scale off / base damage similar to Caitlyn's Q.

Bob the ToastrJun 29, 20171 votes

How about make the base damage reset at the end instead of the total damage?

JeedosJun 29, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bob the Toastr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5Ic6hFgA,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-29T16:16:16.892+0000)

How about make the base damage reset at the end instead of the total damage?

Because the base damage is terrible, the damage comes from the 200% ad ratio.

Bob the ToastrJun 29, 20171 votes

Well if there's a 200% ad ratio then you hardly need a damage reset. That's like saying Veigar 's ult should reset if he kills someone with it.

JeedosJun 29, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bob the Toastr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5Ic6hFgA,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-29T16:35:37.125+0000)

Well if there's a 200% ad ratio then you hardly need a damage reset. That's like saying 's ult should reset if he kills someone with it.

You do, because you get a 15% fall off per hit down to a 40% cap. Hit 2 minions, you're at 70% already.

Which is pitiful. Plus it is total AD, not bonus AD. And at level 9 (or around there) You'd have around 150 AD, which equates to 305 physical damage on top of the base damage. If you hit it now (with no fall off from minions / other players). It does do impressive damage - however, it is a very dodgeable skillshot and is very punishing on Sivir if she does miss it - which is very easy to do even when experienced on her. Why is it punishing? Because she has no other form of damage besides her W AA reset and her basic attacks.

Aatrox Mid 1v5Jun 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Buff Sivir - She's clearly one of the weakest ADCs.

Attack Speed growth stat changed to 2.6% (from 1.6%) - (extra 18% attack speed @ level 18)

Boomerang Blade (Q) - damage now resets upon reaching maximum distance (you could cap its damage to minions to prevent abuse cases of early waveclear - but I suppose given it's mana cost and high cooldown compared to Piltover Peacemaker, Piercing Light etc may not be necessary)

Spell Shield (E) - now procs Fleet of Foot (passive) upon successfully blocking an enemy ability

TL;DR Buff - fanks.

They need to make her fun to play. the only interesting thing about her is her e. Theres also a lack of damage in her kit. Her niche was supposed to be that shes a wave clear god but seeing as we now have item 3087 item 3085 you can play any other adc for wave clear...

ElikainJun 30, 20171 votes

Indeed. Shiv and Runaan's seem to be the waveclear options for Marksmen in general while Sivir's E already does that job. All in all, i always opt into more waveclear with a Shiv as i see no point in Runaan's or RFC (at least in the early game). Her range is low to utilize Runaan's and her E does a better job at it while RFC might be good with more damage and crit, to allow Sivir to start a fight from quite a long ways away.

In any case, i like her Q but it's only a big damage dealer if it hits one champion two times. Passing through any other units reduces it's damage so you're either forced to poke if that's the case or have to fight with no other damage dealing abilities in your kit.

I also would like the option to recall her Q sooner (like Draven can do for his ult) as this would allow Sivir to control the area she fights in, rather then throwing out her biggest damaging tool and it taking too long to come back (just a second longer and you could be losing a fight).

JeedosJun 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Indeed. Shiv and Runaan's seem to be the waveclear options for Marksmen in general while Sivir's E already does that job. All in all, i always opt into more waveclear with a Shiv as i see no point in Runaan's or RFC (at least in the early game). Her range is low to utilize Runaan's and her E does a better job at it while RFC might be good with more damage and crit, to allow Sivir to start a fight from quite a long ways away.

In any case, i like her Q but it's only a big damage dealer if it hits one champion two times. Passing through any other units reduces it's damage so you're either forced to poke if that's the case or have to fight with no other damage dealing abilities in your kit.

I also would like the option to recall her Q sooner (like Draven can do for his ult) as this would allow Sivir to control the area she fights in, rather then throwing out her biggest damaging tool and it taking too long to come back (just a second longer and you could be losing a fight).

That Q mechanic is something I would like very much, but it just wouldn't make much sense ahaha. Unless it's a remote controlled boomerang.

ElikainJun 30, 20171 votes

Well, it you've ever thrown a boomerang, you can control how big of an arc it makes when returning to you by throwing it with a lot of force or not. It's not that out of line for Sivir in terms of her lore and her skill already is called a Boomerang Blade.

Anyway, i just think this implementation is a lot easier for Sivir players rather than the other path you could take and that is to adjust the length of her Q (imagine Lucian's dash) with your mouse. Or at least, that's how i imagine being easier for me personally.

ParvatiShallowJun 30, 20171 votes

Thing is once Sivir is good in soloq she is going to be a a solid pro pick and which is why she has a Victorious Skin already. I think that is why she is left where she is but she could use some buffs in general.

SlampieceHawkeJun 30, 20171 votes

With how much she loves to talk about gold, you'd think she'd have a mechanic similar to draven's passive...

Like... either buff her or give her some way outside of getting kills/assists/CS to get gold because she's got a great lategame, but I hardly ever get there.

Or... maybe she could steal gold with successful e's. hehexd

Tobias BracknerJun 30, 20171 votes

Show math to back up your claims dude. She is designed to be a more team-fight monster marksman.

Big LincolnJun 30, 20171 votes

i'd be on board for this, would be nice to see more ADCs

hhaavviikkJun 30, 20171 votes

she needs a new ult, sivir has the same problem taric has, big part of the power budget jammed into the ult

Centerpoint360Jun 30, 20171 votes

Sivir is the strongest late-game adc, bar none, including Twitch. Any buffs need to be treated lightly.

ZapMyHeartJun 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Sivir is the strongest late-game adc, bar none, including Twitch. Any buffs need to be treated lightly.

Caitlyn Draven Lucian Vayne KogMaw Twitch Tristana are stronger late game than her.

WilborJun 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

are stronger late game than her.

lucian?

WilborJun 30, 20171 votes

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Riot really careful with buffing/nerfing sivir due to her being the most spammed ADC in lcs when she's meta? I remember in season 6 when Riot buffed her w (now crits) she was either picked or banned (don't recall a game without her) in lcs, the casters actually said "well.. it's sivir" when sneaky got a quadra..

don't get me wrong, she's one of my favorites, but once buffed she just dominates in competitive with no contest because she's like made to these kind of games with her utillity and insane waveclear. she was nerfed so many times, I really just think she needs a total rework really..

JeedosJun 30, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Riot really careful with buffing/nerfing sivir due to her being the most spammed ADC in lcs when she's meta? I remember in season 6 when Riot buffed her w (now crits) she was either picked or banned (don't recall a game without her) in lcs, the casters actually said "well.. it's sivir" when sneaky got a quadra..

don't get me wrong, she's one of my favorites, but once buffed she just dominates in competitive with no contest because she's like made to these kind of games with her utillity and insane waveclear. she was nerfed so many times, I really just think she needs a total rework really..

That's why I haven't proposed buffing her W.

WilborJun 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

That's why I haven't proposed buffing her W.

Thing is her w is still buffed, they nerfed her when she was absolutely ridiculous, when streamers who main adc and hated her still played her because "sivir is hypercarry now".the w crit buff just changed her, she's now a late game carry that once she has 3 items can really stomp teamfights (53% win rate late game) Her biggest problem is getting there, till the 3 items powerspike she's really not impactful, so if you are going to buff her early, she will once again be a problem in competetive.

I honestly think her kit is just a mess, she needs a rework, it's one of these champions that is really hard to balance only for solo-q.

JeedosJun 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Thing is her w is still buffed, they nerfed her when she was absolutely ridiculous, when streamers who main adc and hated her still played her because "sivir is hypercarry now".the w crit buff just changed her, she's now a late game carry that once she has 3 items can really stomp teamfights (53% win rate late game) Her biggest problem is getting there, till the 3 items powerspike she's really not impactful, so if you are going to buff her early, she will once again be a problem in competetive.

I honestly think her kit is just a mess, she needs a rework, it's one of these champions that is really hard to balance only for solo-q.

Yeah, her W is a very strong and signature ability. Note I'm not even advocating for something vast here, like 0.125 extra AS by level 18, as well as making her Q a more consistent ability for bot lane trades and fights early on.

JeedosJun 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Thing is her w is still buffed, they nerfed her when she was absolutely ridiculous, when streamers who main adc and hated her still played her because "sivir is hypercarry now".the w crit buff just changed her, she's now a late game carry that once she has 3 items can really stomp teamfights (53% win rate late game) Her biggest problem is getting there, till the 3 items powerspike she's really not impactful, so if you are going to buff her early, she will once again be a problem in competetive.

I honestly think her kit is just a mess, she needs a rework, it's one of these champions that is really hard to balance only for solo-q.

Kit is fine. Sivir's had 2 mini reworks in her 8 year life on the Rift. She doesn't need a full overhaul.

IspharelJun 30, 20171 votes

I think maybe buffing her boomerang speed range and also her base dmg, id be more willing to play her. maybe idk personal preference

ElikainJun 30, 20171 votes

The buffs sound reasonable. I like playing Sivir, Miss Fortune, Jinx and Kindred (sometimes in ADC position) but Sivir really loses a lot of matchups early and mid game. There's just too much bullying in lanes and even though she can prevent one crucial initiation on top of her, this safety doesn't really guarantee the upper hand for her.

I also reckon that her AA range should be slightly increased when Richochet is in use by 25 units. This allows for a very specific buff when her Richochet is active as it already gives her AS and would help get off damage faster in fights with other champions or allow for faster waveclears without giving her permanent safety net by giving her AAs 25 range permanently.

All in all, with enough items as Sivir, she isn't bad at all but the point right now is getting to that point of having those items. If you're just always getting bullied in lane, you are always struggling to reach the point where she's strong enough while every other champion outclasses her and is ready to fight sooner.

I've heard that some people also think that she needs a new passive but i don't really know about that. Her passive is meant to catch up to people she's chasing and landing her AAs but with how weak she is early, her passive isn't really being utilized until the late game and even then, fights are over in a few hits from either side. I think that with fixing Sivir's early and mid game would go a long way of making her passive feel more satisfying rather then giving her a new one.

#EDIT:

I would also like the option to recall her Q like Draven can do for his ult, which would allow Sivir to control the area she is fighting in. Her Q getting recalled as soon as it hits a champion would actually be a nerf as it would help her in 1v1s but would suck for sniping for kills and hitting the front liner that's blocking for their teammate. So allowing Sivir to decide its range would be a lot better option, in my opinion.

J5Cld2hgRxJun 30, 20171 votes

oh yeah person with 54%winrate in dia cries about buffing sivir. Nah sivir is fine you weeaboo

Karn BishopJun 30, 20171 votes

This mentality speaks to your attitude as an adc main, your first choice is to just buff your favorite champion instead of just lowering the absurd levels of damage and early spike EXISTING adc have that sivir does not thus invalidating her, she is fine as a champion much like jhin is in an ok spot as well, you are just being suppressed by these champs that need nerfs Vayne Caitlyn Lucian Graves Draven

JeedosJun 30, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Karn Bishop,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5Ic6hFgA,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2017-06-30T16:01:26.690+0000)

This mentality speaks to your attitude as an adc main, your first choice is to just buff your favorite champion instead of just lowering the absurd levels of damage and early spike EXISTING adc have that sivir does not thus invalidating her, she is fine as a champion much like jhin is in an ok spot as well, you are just being suppressed by these champs that need nerfs

Vayne, Lucian and Graves don't need nerfs.

PopcornBunniJun 30, 20171 votes

Anyone willing to give feedback on some proposed Sivir tweeks?

The idea of these is to make Sivir's Passive play a more mechanically significant role. As is, there is some synergy between the movement speed granted and the goal of an ADC, but it doesn't feel cohesive with her abilities or other mechanics.

Thus, I propose the following potential changes

Fleet of Foot (Passive)

Now procs on spell absorption from Spell Shield (E) Basic Attacks' travel time is reduced by Sivir's bonus Movement Speed

Boomerang Blade (Q) _Mana cost down at low ranks, up at higher ranks. Greater range when giving chase. _ Mana Cost 70/80/90/100/110 -> 60/75/90/105/120 Range increases scaling with Movement Speed when thrown in the same direction Sivir is traveling Base Range 1250 -> 800

Ricochet (W)

Buff lasts for three basic attacks -> Buff lasts until its timer runs out even after its three enhanced attacks are used (thus the Attack Speed increase with R's passive continues after three attacks) Blades travel at a fixed speed -> Blades' travel speed scales with Sivir's Bonus Movement Speed

Spell Shield (E)

Mana restored: Flat 80/95/110/125/140 -> 10/15/20/25/30%

On The Hunt (R)

Cooldown 120/100/80 -> 140/120/100 Bonus Attack Speed: 30/45/60% -> 20/40/60% NEW: R's duration is reset with each enemy champion takedown while it is active. Movement speed continues to fall to and then hold at +20% with the refreshed timer