Daily Reminder that Zilean's on life "support"

Ghost Hooker·Aug 10, 2015·3 votes·780 views

Pun intended but come on. He has the lowest playrate out of any champ. His damage sucks so you can't solo lane him. His support utility is outclassed by every other support so that's out the window too. Someone from Riot started a thread about him needing a new passive. the more I talk about needing buffed, the more I think he needs to get reworked again. I mean, he needs higher base damage; and if you're not going to give him that, he needs something better than a really terrible slow. Like. This guy needs to get some kind of help. If you want to help out his support utility, give him a heal, a better stun, a better slow, I don't know. I'm not a balance expert, but I know my former main needs some love. Rito pls.

11 Comments

BonipherusAug 10, 20151 votes

I agree about him needing his passive change completely. Idk why they left didn't change it to something more interesting during the rework. It seems sort of similar to that invisible power they have been really wonky about removing from the game. Like, how come Ashe lost her gold gain passive but GP got to keep his? The reasoning behind the removal of Ashe's gain was that it was invisible power so what the heck?

But I do really like the added ways you can play him now with his bombs. You can go just for stuns, for zone control, for terrorist bombings on your heavy engage, whatever you want! And that to me makes him a more interesting champion to play as and to play against.

5000000000000000Aug 10, 20151 votes

GP's identity is a plundering pirate that can eat orange and be K. Ashe's identity is permaslow ADC. The gold income was a bonus.

BonipherusAug 10, 20151 votes

Ah so you're saying the difference is champion theme. But from a balancing perspective isn't this hypocritical? I'm just asking because i feel like there is a fine line that hasn't been established. I agree that gp getting some "plunder" would be fine except the mechanics essentially worked the same way. If they wanted to keep that part the plundering theme in his kit could they not have been able to incorporate it in another way that also made thematic sense and remained consistent?

5000000000000000Aug 10, 20151 votes

Sure, Riot could pull a Sion-level rework and change his kit completely while keeping his themes. Or they can keep some things and change other things.

Gangplank was, gameplay-wise, a splitpushing farmer who uses Q to get extra gold and use global ultimate to contribute to teamfight. That's why his Q still has a gold income aspect. Ashe was a permaslow marksman (markswoman?) with a lot of utility (vision and engage). Gold income wasn't a core gameplay mechanic for Ashe as much as it was for Gangplank. That justifies removing that portion.

Another thing is invisible power. Gangplank has to use his Q to get that extra gold, while Ashe just gets that passively. I don't know what Riot will do with TF passive since it's pretty much identical to Ashe passive, but he's in a pretty good spot so I don't think it's worth the time to do a rework on him.

BonipherusAug 11, 20151 votes

You're right about the differences of gp needing to use q while ashe passively used to get gold anyway and I believe that is a notable difference. But now It's even easier for gp to get tons of gold with his barrels giving him parrrley's bonus now. Since the rework he can clear waves very fast and get all that gold without having to waste time and mana trying to farm up using his Q like before. So he kind of lost the trade offs the old gp suffered from in trying to maximize gold through parrrley.

Personally, I'd say Ashe and GP went through a very similar level of rework (both got a new ability, passive changed a bit but overall became stronger, and their utility abilities got slightly buffed in one way and nerfed in another (loss of gold gain vs poorer ap ratio on oranges)). But I know a lot of people thought of Ashe as that utility carry with no steroid who had to farm to get an item advantage through e but she got adjusted and became more focused on her utility than her lack of steroid or farm. It's not what a lot of people see a champion to be for just from how their kit was set up; a rework's main focus should aim to reflect what that champion should fit thematically from a gameplay standpoint to set them apart from champions with similar roles. It's all about that strategic diversity stuff. Is Gangplank's difference from other split pushers that he gets extra gold from farm than them? Is this a necessary or even a healthy gameplay difference to set him apart? Especially because it really seems that power isn't highlighted. Yes there's more to him to set him apart now but... I just feel like there isn't a good enough reason to keep gp's extra gold generating aspect on his Q around anymore. If he needs a different way to plunder gold I feel there's a better way to accomplish this without this invisible power.

Ghost HookerAug 10, 20151 votes

I mean like, what would you recommend they do for his passive? I don't really have an idea, but I do agree that he needs a change

BonipherusAug 10, 20151 votes

I haven't touched zilean in so long and have payed so little attention to him overall that I feel that I lack a deep enough understanding of the champion to make a good call for a new passive, sorry.

CrossetteAug 10, 20151 votes

"His damage sucks so you can't solo lane him"

I fought a Zilean yesterday that two-shotted our ADC, Support and Jungler AT THE SAME TIME.

Ghost HookerAug 10, 20151 votes

But that's late game tho. also how were they that squiiish ? Even if his damage is good when building full ap, if he's building for utility, all he has is his slow, which doesn't provide much utility in lane.

CrossetteAug 10, 20151 votes

The only utility you need is a 99% speed boost/slow, a 1.5 second stun and a full health revive to be significant, honestly. The actual support on the team can provide other utilities.

Also I'm pretty sure my team had no clue what they were doing. :(

BlackTh0ughtzAug 10, 20151 votes

He's pretty good as a counter to bursty team comps. Played against a Darius Zed team comp and the ult helped us tremendously in fights his Qs are very hard to land tho.