I miss season 5

Akashi Seijuuro·Oct 25, 2019·47 votes·14,887 views

Won my lane, roamed top and bot, helped jungler 20/6/14 and still lost game because I have 4 animals while the enemy has only one animal... God I love this game...

67 Comments

Harden StepbackOct 25, 201946 votes

Season 5 before the juggernaut patch was peak gameplay balance. We will never reach that state of game again unfortunately.

Titanium70Oct 25, 20198 votes

^This, so much!

TonyTonyMordecaiOct 25, 20192 votes

Personally I thought just before the preseason (after the juggernaut nerfs) was one of the best times. I don't remember what it was like before the juggernaut patch though, so feel free to disagree.

KVbqbFsC8eOct 26, 20191 votes

Very overrated. Having to lane against smite toplaners who would come with a level advantage and red buff was not fun or balanced. Neither were on-hit junglers building tank and completely melting people with sated devourer.

SaezioOct 26, 20191 votes

Except assassins were kinda useless back then. So underpowered compared to mages/tanks/marksmen. Their ceiling was hella low.

SpecterVonBarenOct 26, 20195 votes

And?

SaezioOct 26, 20193 votes

Just saying that was one of the issues back then assassins were too weak

LankPantsOct 26, 20197 votes

Assassins being weak isn't that much of an issue TBH. As a class they're oppressive and game warping. Their viability inherently forces squishy champs to be limited to only ADCs and mages with extreme self peel and good options for dealing with assassins or champions with enough burst to 50/50 into the assassin.

The tradeoff for assassins being week has historically been far better balance amongst all other classes. In S5 tanks, ADCs, bruisers, mages and both tank and mage supports were all viable and most had good variety. The only tradeoff was weaker assassins. That's a good tradeoff.

SaezioOct 26, 20193 votes

Marksmen were oppressive in S5. IDK how you didn't notice. But teams were all focused around marksmen back then. Really unbalanced.

Also, if you weren't playing tanks in top/jungle you were soft inting. That's not good game balance.

That was also the season with new GP and Dragon Morde wasn't it?

LankPantsOct 26, 20196 votes

Dragon Mord was late into the season, after the juggernaut changes which is what most people use as the cutoff for when S5 stopped being good. GP was also fairly late into S5, about 2 patches before Mord but he took a while for people to work out. For the first patch or so he was a non-issue because you could bet every GP player was terrible. So the point where he actually became a problem was about the same point as the point when Mord was reworked.

Tanks were not the only viable junglers or tops at all. Post Cinder nerf pretty much every jungler who is overwhelming now was viable then. It's just that you could also play tank junglers and they were good rather than fucking abysmal. Champions like Graves, Lee Sin, Elise and Kindred were all important parts of the meta. I'm not a top laner so I don't know as much about tops specific champions but I know there was at least fairly good variety in top.

95% of all metas have been focused around ADCs. If it's not tanks and supports to protect them then it's assassins and divers to kill them.

It is interesting how you mix up different metas from S5 as if they were the same thing even when they're self contradictory. You can't play anything but tanks top but GP is a problem? You don't see the issue with that statement? ADCs were the most important champs but Dragon Mord (played bot in S5) was an issue? The problem with your logic is that S5 was actually varied. It wasn't just one meta. It was basically split into four distinct metas.

The first was a high damage meta, it was short but defined by champs like Lee Sin, J4, Rek'sai and Xin who dominated the game from the jungle. This meta ended when Riot nerfed damage from jungle and significantly buffed tanks. You then had a tank meta where the strongest junglers, tops and supports were tanks, but it didn't last that long either. Riot significantly nerfed tank junglers resulting in a fairly balanced meta which lasted about half of the year. This is what most people refer to when they say they liked S5. After Riot reworked 5 champions over 2 patches and 4 of them caused huge balance issues you had the worlds meta, where Darius, Gangplank, Mord and Skarner were game warping.

3TWarriorOct 26, 20192 votes

assassins have been useless next to never except during the one month period of the "tank meta" that was the only actual tank meta to ever exist and then sometime before season 3 that I was not around for

SaezioOct 26, 20191 votes

I am talking about assassins having low as fuck ceilings. Sure they wouldn't be useless in bronze-diamond 3 or so. But after that they fell hard every season before season 8. Except for the occasional K6/LB maybe Fizz in some metas before his rework

OtterlyLostOct 25, 201925 votes

I miss season 5 too... back when bot lane was less of a fiesta, the only people playing support were support mains, playing a mage support was trolling, where there was just 1 dragon, where junglers actually had to farm instead of permaganking, and ADC didn't feel like fucking dog shit to play.

KVbqbFsC8eOct 26, 20192 votes

{quoted}

the only people playing support were support mains

I have no idea where you got that from. The majority of people playing support were those who had the last pick and were forced to play it.

sp441Oct 26, 20191 votes

Better than Pre-Season 4, where the only people who played Support were absolute fucking masochists.

OtterlyLostOct 26, 20192 votes

I get that idea by the fact that something better than our current system existed; it was called Teambuilder. :))))

QuáxOct 25, 201917 votes

I don't know why everyone is reminiscing of old times when it def wasn't perfect

Season 5 had feral flare Juggernauts New Fiora Preseason that year had Rek said which was one of the craziest release champs to this day A terrible worlds meta Little to no jungle diversity with Elise being so dominant And more

Get off your high horse and start remembering that the season wasn't perfect, no season was.

FSREROct 25, 20195 votes

{quoted}

I don't know why everyone is reminiscing of old times when it def wasn't perfect

Season 5 had feral flare Juggernauts New Fiora Preseason that year had Rek said which was one of the craziest release champs to this day A terrible worlds meta Little to no jungle diversity with Elise being so dominant And more

Get off your high horse and start remembering that the season wasn't perfect, no season was.

They don't say it was perfect, nobody claimed that but any past Season is better than we have now

QuinnovaOct 26, 20192 votes

{quoted}

I don't know why everyone is reminiscing of old times when it def wasn't perfect

Season 5 had feral flare Juggernauts New Fiora Preseason that year had Rek said which was one of the craziest release champs to this day A terrible worlds meta Little to no jungle diversity with Elise being so dominant And more

Get off your high horse and start remembering that the season wasn't perfect, no season was.

Yeah, but it was better.

QuáxOct 26, 20191 votes

So what? It still had its issues and at the time were seen as the WORST ISSUES THE GAME HAS EVER SEEN OMG SO UNBALANCED and everyone bitched about it like we're doing now. Nothing is different, we just have new issues that weren't there previously. Also, do you have any rock-solid proof in terms of numbers that it was a better season I'm not gonna trust a level 70 OCE players word so I'd like some proof.

QuinnovaDec 19, 20191 votes

{quoted}

So what? It still had its issues and at the time were seen as the WORST ISSUES THE GAME HAS EVER SEEN OMG SO UNBALANCED and everyone bitched about it like we're doing now. Nothing is different, we just have new issues that weren't there previously. Also, do you have any rock-solid proof in terms of numbers that it was a better season I'm not gonna trust a level 70 OCE players word so I'd like some proof.

Because being from OCE is totally relevant. It was more fun.

QuáxDec 19, 20191 votes

Congrats on responding to something I wrote 2 months ago. Can I borrow your time machine?

QuinnovaDec 23, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Congrats on responding to something I wrote 2 months ago. Can I borrow your time machine?

That's also totally relevant.

Anu3isIIOct 26, 20199 votes

I mean, every season is awful if you just take the worst patches/changes. From what I've seen, many people agree that the patch before the Juggernaut Class update was one of the best league had in history.

Balance can only be reached through time and multiple changes, every change either solving or adding a new problem. While the whole Juggernaut fiesta was a mess, Riot immediately after Worlds changed them significantly to place them at a more reasonable power level.

The Pre-Juggernaut patch came after Cinderhulk Tank-Meta, where Tanks could kill anyone they wanted while barely being damaged. Again, they toned down both Cinder and Top-Tier Tanks. Reaching the sweet spot isn't and never has been easy.

Yes, no season is perfect. But their quality does change and probably the OP really enjoyed Season 5. From his/her perspective, it may have been the closest season to perfection and everyone is free to agree or disagree.

3TWarriorOct 26, 20192 votes

actually, tanks didn't "kill" everyone and instead just turtled and then bull-rushed a lane, oddly simlar to how things are now

you would kill maybe three of them but lose all the way to your inhibitor or base turret and they'd come back and do it again because you could not kill an entire group of them

That was the only ever tank meta in the history of league because it was common-place for both teams to have a full set of tanks and a marksman

Hong Kong AnnieOct 26, 20192 votes

2 of your points the Juggernauts and worlds meta are basically the same. The Juggernaut update came out like the patch before worlds. And to wright off the whole season for what is essentially the last patch of it doesn't seem right.

LauchmelderOct 26, 20192 votes

{quoted} Get off your high horse and start remembering that the season wasn't perfect, no season was.

Stop and think for a second yourself... Nobody says past seasons were perfect. People just say that compared to the current meta and situation past seasons weren't even close to as cancerous.

RαyOct 27, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I don't know why everyone is reminiscing of old times when it def wasn't perfect

Season 5 had feral flare Juggernauts New Fiora Preseason that year had Rek said which was one of the craziest release champs to this day A terrible worlds meta Little to no jungle diversity with Elise being so dominant And more

Get off your high horse and start remembering that the season wasn't perfect, no season was.

League wasn't perfect, yes, but nowhere near the shitshow we have today.

Season 5 felt far more satisfying to play. The games weren't one-shot fiestas and consisted of actual teamfights which lasted longer than five seconds.

FioraWillCarryOct 26, 20199 votes

Ah, season 5. When comebacks were actually a thing.

5050BSOct 26, 20198 votes

Before Mobility Creep and Damage Creep.

Before Yasuo generation champs

FioraWillCarryOct 26, 20194 votes

Yasuo was even a normal champ in that era. He was balanced and everything. Hard to believe, I know.

ModAcademy KaynOct 25, 20198 votes

How is that any different back then to today? It's not like bad teammates just suddenly started existing post Season 5

Get OutscaledOct 25, 201911 votes

[{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4B3aZTp6,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-10-25T20:20:36.466+0000)

How is that any different back then to today? It's not like bad teammates just suddenly started existing post Season 5

Better meta. More diversity in roles and compositions. Longer games and longer teamfights, not what short shitts we have now, freaking 4 seconds teamfights in 20 minute long game for kids that have 5 seconds attention span.

QuáxOct 26, 20191 votes

Mate what the fuck are you talkin about? Juggernauts were the only real viable class in top + Fiora. Jungle had feral flare and Udyr was the best jungler along with elise, Reksai was a must ban on her release, ADC's were shit so not many were viable. Show me proof.

5050BSOct 26, 20194 votes

And yet you could still turn a game around.

Tr4shB4NSYST3MOct 25, 20197 votes

More individual agency back then, it felt like.

Whereas now it seems like its all about "whoever has more feeders loses"

JuiceOct 25, 20195 votes

Season 5 was when it all went to shit.

Season 4 was king.

ThefrostyvikingOct 25, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Season 5 was when it all went to shit.

Season 4 was king.

Wasnt Cinderhulk introduced in season 4? As well as current baron? And the first marksmen item update?

I am fairly sure a jungle rework also happened.

ArtumisPrimeOct 26, 20191 votes

First marksman update was preseason 6.

Cinderhulk was season 5.

Baron was patch 4.20, but that was preseason 5.

Jungle reworks happen almost every season.

Irelia BotOct 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Wasnt Cinderhulk introduced in season 4? As well as current baron? And the first marksmen item update?

I am fairly sure a jungle rework also happened.

Seasons 2, 4 and 5 had their problems but they didn't speed up the game so much that it was league of one shots and 20 to 25 minute games decided by said one shots.

ThefrostyvikingOct 26, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4B3aZTp6,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2019-10-26T16:39:18.056+0000)

Seasons 2, 4 and 5 had their problems but they didn't speed up the game so much that it was league of one shots and 20 to 25 minute games decided by said one shots.

"Had their problems" is a rather big understatement.

Season 2 was a donger size competition between those who sought to prove themselves the most broken, Rengar, Darius and Fiora were all released this season among several others who also participated in that.

Season 4? First Marksmen item update, First edition of Ardent censer, Azir, braum, Gnar, and Yasou got released while several in hindsight very bad reworks also happened, also Feral flare.

Season 5? Yeah this season...haha, i´d have to write an essay to mention everything but suffice to say, Cinderhulk was added along with a heap of other problem causing items that went on for years.

And lets not forget the greatest disaster yet, that forced Riot to outright pause worlds which has never happened before or again since then, the Juggernaut rework.

There has not been a single season that was problem-free or even remotely so, i would know having played through most of it.

Irelia BotOct 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

"Had their problems" is a rather big understatement.

Season 2 was a donger size competition between those who sought to prove themselves the most broken, Rengar, Darius and Fiora were all released this season among several others who also participated in that.

Season 4? First Marksmen item update, First edition of Ardent censer, Azir, braum, Gnar, and Yasou got released while several in hindsight very bad reworks also happened, also Feral flare.

Season 5? Yeah this season...haha, i´d have to write an essay to mention everything but suffice to say, Cinderhulk was added along with a heap of other problem causing items that went on for years.

And lets not forget the greatest disaster yet, that forced Riot to outright pause worlds which has never happened before or again since then, the Juggernaut rework.

There has not been a single season that was problem-free or even remotely so, i would know having played through most of it.

And yet I can't find the interest to play what this game is these days.

The juggernaut patch was when I lost interest in this game and my interest in taking it seriously has never returned.

ThefrostyvikingOct 27, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4B3aZTp6,comment-id=00020000000100000000,timestamp=2019-10-26T18:21:37.824+0000)

And yet I can't find the interest to play what this game is these days.

The juggernaut patch was when I lost interest in this game and my interest in taking it seriously has never returned.

I mean, you can only play a game that much and still enjoy it, even if some changes here and there occur.

Especially so when the devs keep making these as far as i can tell, blatantly awful decisions that cause giant problems for months on end without seemingly caring about it even with everyone telling them it was a bad idea and it´s even worse in reality.

DNFVixenOct 26, 20194 votes

[{quoted}](name=Akashi Seijuuro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4B3aZTp6,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-10-25T15:23:36.863+0000)

Won my lane, roamed top and bot, helped jungler 20/6/14 and still lost game because I have 4 animals while the enemy has only one animal... God I love this game...

I miss it too, I would prefer season 6 and 7 over the garbage the game is now

Hemulen MagiOct 26, 20193 votes

Season 5 was good. I think players like 'tank metas' because what certain people tend to call 'tank meta' on are actually just reasonably diverse and balanced metas, without tanks even being overplayed. I would need to do some digging to pull up the historical statistics, but the most popular champions in all lanes were not even tanks during the climax of 'tank meta'. For example, the dominant junglers were LeeSin Khazix if I recall correctly. Sejuani was good too, but tanks still had lower play rates than fighters and slayers. In top lane, Riven was still the most popular. Ahri and Zed were the most popular mid laners. Morgana and Thresh were the most popular supports. Tanks didn't take over the game even when they were actually tanky.

Ekko Akali Fizz were building item 3068 and playing like skirmishing divers, but that doesn't mean true tanks were dominant. Also skirmisher Akali was actually the healthiest iteration of the champion, and it fit thematically because she fits between Shen and Zed in the lore. She trained under Shen and learned his defensive tactics before she left the order, and even though she has gone rogue, she never openly betrayed the order and switched to forbidden offensive tactics like Zed did. Therefore Kinkou order: warden-slayer (Shen: core tactics, calmly disarm, protect instead of kill); diver-slayer (Akali: rogue use of core tactics for passion-driven violence); slayer-slayer [assassin-skirmisher] (Zed: disdains core protective tactics, misuses other Kinkou teachings, augments with forbidden assassin tactics). Their paths form a spectrum with Akali in the center, so the tankier than Zed, more aggressive than Shen gameplay fit.

3TWarriorOct 27, 20191 votes

well, the reason it was actually called a tank meta was because it was very common for both teams to have at least 3 tanks or durable champions on each side and just rush towers while unkillable, then come back to do it again

NeravaOct 26, 20192 votes

I don't remember which season it was, but it used to feel like an easier to pick up DotA style game, where it was possible to build kinda odd things and still do well. Now it feels like some sort of arcade shooter game where damage is always the best pick unless your snowballing hard.

Jennifer17Oct 26, 20192 votes

anyone who isnt an assassin/bruiser main misses season 5.

Vlad Ex Ig 0 PotOct 26, 20191 votes

Or mage. Having all my damages mitigated/Shielded and being destroyed by champions without any offensive stats was the absolute worst.

3TWarriorOct 27, 20191 votes

eh, more like assassin/champions that Riot does not pay much attention to for ?REASONS?

For example, Jax and Riven are mostly problems because of item 3161 and pretty much any champion that uses auto attacking amid their abilities benefits from it