Zed is not a jungler

League of Zed·Feb 8, 2020·8 votes·2,441 views

Why are you guys deciding to change zed, talon, darius, garen, and diana to a jungler. I understand diana could work talon too and hell even garen, but i think its r%%%%%ed to try and change a champions role after theyve put in so much time and invested so much time perfecting that champion for the role they play, if you buff him for jungle of course he'll still be able to be played mid but at what cost? if you start putting bonus dmg to monster buffs on him hes eventually just gonna become a better jungle and lose his main role of the last 5-6 years, plus he wont even have his full potential mid if hes got jungle monster dmg into his kit. mini rework him if you dont think hes a good mid laner dont try and just change his role and hope that brings him back to the meta. Sincerely, League of Zed.

49 Comments

JaspersFeb 8, 20206 votes

Remember when they tried to change Morgana to let her go jungle? Then she was immediately nerfed after? Now she's only played Support?

DuskDaUmbreonFeb 8, 20202 votes

That had basically no impact on her viability in other lanes, though?

She functions just as well as a midlaner as she did before. She was basically always just a support before. Nothing fucking changed.

JaspersFeb 8, 20201 votes

She was 'hotfixed' in a day for reaching about 56% winrate (Sett's doing well. :P). Her jungle play is now basically non-existant after reaching a cool 2-3% because of that mini rework. Now after her W changes because of her VGU, her mid presence is lower than ever. She either needs her old W scalings back or spell vamp again so she can actually farm and sustain as a battle mage because at the moment she is used as a Black Shield bot because of the meta.

Gath ImmortalFeb 8, 20205 votes

jesus christ, why don't they just remove lanes and make the entire map jungle if they want so many champions to jungle.

League of ZedFeb 8, 20203 votes

i know right there trying to take champions that already have very high playrates and making them jungle so they dont have to worry about over nerfing or buffing its stupid because its taking away champions of players who dont even play jungle but they play those champions for years just to have them be taken away for nothing.

iiGazeiiFeb 8, 20202 votes

[{quoted}](name=League of Zed,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=45uEA3bJ,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2020-02-08T15:32:48.060+0000)

i know right there trying to take champions that already have very high playrates and making them jungle so they dont have to worry about over nerfing or buffing its stupid because its taking away champions of players who dont even play jungle but they play those champions for years just to have them be taken away for nothing.

They're not taking anything away from anybody. They said specifically that they're looking at increasing jungle viability without taking away viability in their original lanes. You'll still be able to play Zed midlane, but you'd also have the option to play Zed jungle.

Dai Mecha SettFeb 8, 20205 votes

I can understand diana, I can kind of get an idea for garen easy aoe dmg and movement speed with q. But zeds always been a mid laner and darius? what is he gonna do bring predator,flash and ghost? how is he going to get on anyone.

iiGazeiiFeb 8, 20205 votes

They're trying to make it a viable off-role without touching his midlane viability.

They're not changing these champions because they feel like they're not good enough in their current lanes, they're trying to make jungle a more appealing role by including more popular champions in the jungle roster.

theRightTwix2000Feb 8, 20203 votes

When it comes to garren zed and talon i think they are doing it for the exact reason of ballence because of its in the jungle they wont have to buff or nerf them because they wont have the same precence in the game

League of ZedFeb 8, 20203 votes

Yes but at the state zed is in right now he isnt a viable jungle so they are gonna to be buffing him in some way to make his abilitys or passive deal extra dmg to jungle monsters which is gonna take away from his mid because if his abilities work better in the jungle why play him mid when theres better assassins like talon kat and qiyana anyways.

iiGazeiiFeb 8, 20202 votes

[{quoted}](name=League of Zed,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=45uEA3bJ,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2020-02-08T15:36:39.109+0000)

Yes but at the state zed is in right now he isnt a viable jungle so they are gonna to be buffing him in some way to make his abilitys or passive deal extra dmg to jungle monsters which is gonna take away from his mid because if his abilities work better in the jungle why play him mid when theres better assassins like talon kat and qiyana anyways.

Zed's been hovering around a 50% winrate for the last few patches, and he's a difficult champion. He's not in a bad state at all. He might not have the early game bully potential of other assassins, but he actually scales where the others fall off.

Making his abilities do more damage to monsters wouldn't hurt his midlane viability at all. It would just improve his jungle viability. His midlane winrate wouldn't change if they just buffed his passive damage to monsters.

If it turns out that, hey, this assassin with an insane engage range and a ton of AoE damage is better in the jungle than the midlane, why not let him be a jungler? It happened with Graves, it happened with Taliyah. It's not unheard of for a champion to move to the jungle when it suits their kit better.

League of ZedFeb 8, 20202 votes

Riot doesnt support Taliyah jungle they tried to change her back, Zed has around a 50% winrate mostly because of low elo alot of players dont know how to play against him ask any high elo player or streamers (LL Stylish, Lacreation, ZedxSmurf) and they will tell you the same thing zed can't carry when hes ahead his dmg is extremly reliant on hitting triple Q's and yes he does scale a little bit more then most of the assassins but they do everything zed can do 10x better for the early/mid game and most games only last around 25-30 minutes not allowing zed to scale, so i disagree changing zed to a jungler is not a good idea because alot of zed players are 1 tricks and will lose there champion that they already do not think is in a good spot.

iiGazeiiFeb 8, 20203 votes

[{quoted}](name=League of Zed,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=45uEA3bJ,comment-id=0003000100000000,timestamp=2020-02-08T15:55:55.605+0000)

Riot doesnt support Taliyah jungle they tried to change her back, Zed has around a 50% winrate mostly because of low elo alot of players dont know how to play against him ask any high elo player or streamers (LL Stylish, Lacreation, ZedxSmurf) and they will tell you the same thing zed can't carry when hes ahead his dmg is extremly reliant on hitting triple Q's and yes he does scale a little bit more then most of the assassins but they do everything zed can do 10x better for the early/mid game and most games only last around 25-30 minutes not allowing zed to scale, so i disagree changing zed to a jungler is not a good idea because alot of zed players are 1 tricks and will lose there champion that they already do not think is in a good spot.

They're not changing Zed into a jungler. They're adding jungle as an off-role. Nobody is losing their champion.

SirHydroFeb 8, 20204 votes

{quoted}

They're trying to make it a viable off-role without touching his midlane viability.

They're not changing these champions because they feel like they're not good enough in their current lanes, they're trying to make jungle a more appealing role by including more popular champions in the jungle roster.

That's like throwing extra spices in your dish to "make it more appealing" to more people. What you end up doing is ruining the dish for EVERYONE.

Anu3isIIFeb 8, 20202 votes

As a confirmation to your point, Riot tried to make Nid Jg viable and it resulted in her being pretty much gutted for all her other roles (and pretty difficult to pull of in her new main role).

ParoeFeb 8, 20201 votes

{quoted}

As a confirmation to your point, Riot tried to make Nid Jg viable and it resulted in her being pretty much gutted for all her other roles (and pretty difficult to pull of in her new main role).

Im going to deny this on the grounds that Nidalee was a jungler already and reworked so she wasnt so binary, her not being popular as a laner isnt because shes incapable of it... But rather shes just that much more suited for the jungle.

Anu3isIIFeb 11, 20201 votes

Her performance as a jungler was awful before, they literally made multiple patches of changes until she actually became viable as a jungler. If you look at pro games from season 3 and season 4 (where her first rework came) you will see she was a solo laner all the times.

Do you realise that before all those changes she got her cougar form at level 6?!! And even after making her having it from level 1 she sucked at jungling until they decided to make her passive mark work on monsters too (and that happened in season 5).

She never was a jungler until Riot enforced it and resulted into this binary farm heavy jungler that wants to be ahead of you all the time or sucks. Her changes to balance her jungle have resulted in heavy nerfs to her already balanced solo lane performance.

iiGazeiiFeb 8, 20204 votes

{quoted}

That's like throwing extra spices in your dish to "make it more appealing" to more people. What you end up doing is ruining the dish for EVERYONE.

In your analogy, the spices are the champions, and the dish is the jungle, not the other way around.

Zed won't be ruined by these changes. They specifically said they're looking at adding ways to improve his jungle viability without touching his midlane viability. The jungle certainly won't be ruined by the addition of a few extra champions.

DuskDaUmbreonFeb 8, 20205 votes

How does that even make sense, though? If Zed becomes overbearing in jungle, they can just remove the changes.

These changes have next to no impact on his lane. No nerfs will come from this that will impact his lane, unless his jungle just uncovers something broken that makes him broken midlane as well.

Dope SoloFeb 8, 20205 votes

The balance team isn't good at their job. Get over it.

theRightTwix2000Feb 8, 20204 votes

Just forget about lore forget about what they can and should be able to do lets just re work the game to where its more viable instead of actually ballencing. Talon wont be a problem in the jungle cause we ront have to nerf him. We dont have to buff zed if he can jungle. We cant ballence akali at all so throw it in jungle. Daruis whole kit is not designed for jungle you would have to change him garren is already played jungle sometimes. What is the point of this so you dont gave to worry about ballencing them.

FalleGamingFeb 8, 20204 votes

Absolutely agree! Ridiculous move, voted he should stay mid.👍👍

ParoeFeb 8, 20203 votes

What are the actual changes being made...? Also Zed jungle has always been a thing. He used to be exclusively a jungler way back when.

League of ZedFeb 8, 20202 votes

Basically its not released yet but there gonna be changing him to probably have his passive do bonus dmg on jungle camps or someting

ParoeFeb 8, 20201 votes

[{quoted}](name=League of Zed,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=45uEA3bJ,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2020-02-08T15:41:47.485+0000)

Zed has never been a jungler way back when when everything was broken he was not just a jungler he was played mid jungle and top, and theres none yet they just said there changing him which is already a stupid idea.

... Yes he was a jungler way back when, because assassins at the time werent very strong and shared itemization with fighters. This is a long time ago though; We still had Elisas miracle back then.

Also, a buff is a buff is a buff isnt it? His Q doing bonus damage to monsters would make him a pretty strong jungler, and it wouldnt impact his laning any. Seems like your complaints come from a place of stagnation where you resist change... Dont worry about any jungle-specific buffs bleeding over to his laning, riot loves AD assassins to the point of absurdity.

League of ZedFeb 8, 20201 votes

No if they change zeds Q, Passive, E doesnt matter what ability will be touched its a buff towards him being a jungler he is at a meh spot in mid right now almost every assassin is stronger then him, Talon, Qiyana, Katarina, Kassadin, LB, Ekko, Fizz, Zed should not be changed for a role switch because if they change him to be strong jungle then no one will want him mid sense hes already a meh assassin he only kills if hes ahead or hits triple Q's, they should focus on making him a half decent mid laner again then changing his role completly every zed player/main doesnt want this change. and for good reason

Dai Mecha SettFeb 8, 20203 votes

nah they love AP one bursts more then anything have you seen the ap scaling and dmg they do its always a one shot. Ad assassins do a lot too but compared to ap its no where near. but because he was played jungle doesn't mean he was a good jungler he was played jungle because he was bad everyone else.

ParoeFeb 8, 20201 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dai Mecha Sett,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=45uEA3bJ,comment-id=0004000000000001,timestamp=2020-02-08T15:53:10.023+0000)

nah they love AP one bursts more then anything have you seen the ap scaling and dmg they do its always a one shot. Ad assassins do a lot too but compared to ap its no where near. but because he was played jungle doesn't mean he was a good jungler he was played jungle because he was bad everyone else.

I hear your bias, and raise you the entirety of AD assassin itemization.

Zero Skill TankFeb 8, 20202 votes

I can't imagine Zed jungle being healthy ever.

Like in lane he is annoying but there is some gameplay and skill and shit involved, but from jungle he will be like AD version of AP Jungle Malphite - point the target with cursor from insane range, tap every button once and possibly they were low enough to die.

Only even more r%%%%%ed, because dives will be easier due to snapback and range is even better.

League of ZedFeb 8, 20202 votes

I'm officially done arguing nobody is changing my opinion and i'm not changing yours so everyone who agrees with me thank you, anyone who disagrees with me sorry your brain is the size of a peanut and don't understand why this affects zed mains but most people who disagree are probably junglers who want more champions to feed on anyway, i bet any adc would disagree with having zed jungle. bye bye. Zed summoner 12

GFREEMENFeb 8, 20202 votes

If they wanted to make a uncommon pick Junlger that FITS by theme would be Zyra . Even her back story is Queen of the Jungle.

make her plants take less damage and do more to Jungle Mobs and that does not affect her Laning or support roles.

IljosFeb 8, 20201 votes

[deleted]

League of ZedFeb 8, 20202 votes

Oh yes im r%%%%%ed because im stating my opinion, if you come here to criticize then go somewheres else because im sure so many people agree that changing champions roles is r%%%%%ed.

IljosFeb 8, 20201 votes

what the fuck are you talking about? I'd assume NA people to have better reading comprehension than that.

League of ZedFeb 8, 20201 votes

Soraka should not be a flex champion that is a support healer, vel'koz is not a support he has nothing that an adc can gain from him besides dmg, its like lux support people play it cuz there autofilled there not strong supports and they have more potential in solo lanes where they can get a lead and blow people up, Zed should not be a jungler simple as that, next.

IljosFeb 8, 20202 votes

you've responded to completely different shit than what I said to you twice now, you're right though go next this is fucking stupid.

Dai Mecha SettFeb 8, 20203 votes

alright then I want illaoi to be an adc carry. all champs should be flex champs right?

IljosFeb 8, 20201 votes

"why is soraka being nerfed for being great top!!!" "flex champs are stupid!!!!!" okay my guy, nobody said all champs should be flex champs but its quite alright for ekko to be played both mid and jungle or for velkoz to be played both supp and mid.

Dai Mecha SettFeb 8, 20203 votes

alright does it seem like its a good decision, to me it seems that some champs just have really high dmg to do these things like as if they weren't nerfed previous to all of that?

IljosFeb 8, 20201 votes

so what about volibear being played top, jungle and support? sett being played ... well everywhere besides adc. flex champions are fine more often than not they just get in roles that their gameplay is toxic in but I don't see that happening with zed.

Skia AsteriFeb 8, 20201 votes

Talon should never be allowed to be good in the jungle. Similar to Alistar (who was in the distant past changed to make him not a jungler) it would be too unhealthy exactly because it would become too good to easily.

IMelchorIFeb 8, 20201 votes

why are you people so narrow minded? in early seasons you could jungle almost any champion. that included supports like Lulu

riot does not want to move these champions from their lanes into the jungle they just want to allow them to jungle as a secondary role.

RagnaveilFeb 8, 20201 votes

Um, you realize they are OPENING the chance for him to jg, that does not mean he's a straight up jungle only champ.

vgamedudeFeb 8, 20201 votes

Why the hell are flex champs stupid? Having more than one possible thing a champ can do adds variety.

XJ99999999999999Feb 8, 20201 votes

zed used to be able to jungle when elder lizard existed.

GoderFeb 9, 20201 votes

So what you’re saying is you’re adding more champs that sounds like they would be awful to plan in the jungle, just so that you can appeal more players to switch roles into jungle.......... so every game is gonna be a coin flip now! Whether you have a player who actually knows how to jungle or a player who decided to jungle that game because of a champ. So thanks riot for once game ruining RANKED for the season because you know the kids from this dumb ass community will not be “learning” jungle in their normal games but in their ranked games like always.

ProphetOfDravenFeb 9, 20201 votes

Do people not understand how to read. They are likely just giving jg Zed some buffs like

E does 60 bonus damage to monsters Q no longer gets its damaged reduced when hitting monsters

So his clear is decent enough to be played jungle. Though I wish they were making him and the other four jungle only. Darius is ruining top lane, Diana is the best in role mid laner, Talon basically plays like a jungler, Zed has really aggressive laning and he's the only AD assassin that straight bum rushes lethality the others at least go mobis and / or tiamat. Garen is just a statcheck and is either too good or too bad.

IMelchorIFeb 9, 20201 votes

{quoted}

Garen is just a statcheck and is either too good or too bad.

except for the time when he was at 50% winrate for 3 years.

garen was easy balanced by increasing or decreasing some few numbers.

it is similar to sett. everyone thinks sett is broken but his abilities are not even crazy or special. his numbers are just too strong and you can very easy reduce them a little and make him 50% winrate.

the real problem champions are champions like akali who can be nerfed 10 times in a row but have such stupid abilities that they are still overpowered at high elo.

ProphetOfDravenFeb 9, 20201 votes

I meant Garen's current iteration.