Between the AP item nerfs, removal of clarity as a usable summoner spell on TT and SR, mana potions being removed, direct item nerfs, item cost increases, and rendering Archangel's Staff pretty much useless; heavy mana AP characters have been gimped and pigeon-holed into fewer build options. Are there any plans to remedy this?
ayNigerianPrince16 votesI've been really salty about zonya's nerf. Expensive as fuck.
KONO RUBICK DA4 votesI've been really salty about zonya's nerf. Expensive as fuck.
zhonya+rabadon is now worse than zhonya's ring
morris11 votes
HaiLnKill8 votes
only if they nerf this fuker into ground.
PrinceOfStorms1 votesAll they have to do is remove the interaction between his passive and the deathfire touch mastery.
misfortunas1 votesI feel like they should give his passive scaling but then nerf the base damage... It's pretty obnoxious when you lane against brand, have three items on him and he still outdamages you while missing his w and his q because his passive chunks you for so much over time
PrinceOfStorms1 votesIt does scale. It's a flat 8% max HP, it just scales with the enemy health. The amount of damage that it deals is significantly lower in the early game than the amount in the late game, rather, Deathfire Touch and Corrupting Potion are the two things that are causing Brand to do a lot of damage in the laning phase, because of the fact that his passive procs them. You don't want Riot to put an actual AP scaling on that, because then you could get damage comparable to a Morde ult, on his passive.
Brand was fine before Deathfire Touch was added to the game, because he was a lot less safe than most other midlaners. It's not that he was bad per say, but more like he was outclassed. The change that made him as strong as he is now is the addition of Deathfire Touch, because it effectively procs it twice.
So yes, removing the interaction between his passive and on-hit dots would probably fix him, but that's not what the whiners want. The whiners want him nerfed into the ground, Nidalee style.
MohawkBird5 votes[deleted]
NEOtheONE1 votesI'm big into playing support Anivia, and clarity was quite helpful with keeping the ADC in lane longer and giving me another full combo to get kills or assists. I also frequently used mana potions as well because Anivia plays aggressive as all get out as support up until her egg is about to trigger. I have to start Doran's Ring now just to keep a decent supply of mana, which puts me behind in gold versus normal supports. I have to buy spellthief's on my first back. Before, I would start spellthief's mana pot hp pot ward taking clarity and flash as my summoner spells.
MohawkBird1 votes[deleted]
NEOtheONE2 votesHave you played support anivia? Needs all the mana doesn't get blue buff ever. So easy to go OoM especially if you are trying to wall someone in.
Ryùuzaki2 votestrue even late game op champs such as Cassiopeia can't do a sh**
Demon at Sword2 votesAll we need is... Attackspeed mana AP item yay! ... Kidding it is just dream of my main. We need mana potions back, that's all... and maybe cheapier 
Zair Umbras2 votes5 armor off of Zhonya's and 20 more AP on RoA. Such a large item nerf.
Redaga20 votesyeah and the non important gold extra cost in every single main AP item
Llanite3 votesTo be fair, you also got more passive gold and bounty now gives team gold, herald too if you manage to take it.
And everything got more expensive, not just AP.
Zair Umbras3 votesThe circlejerk is real. People are thinking item cost increases are nerfs when every single item got increased in price except for IE, which was actually nerfed and reduced in price to match the nerf.
CrimsonCobra34 votes[{quoted}](name=Zair Umbras,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=44tuO30Q,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2015-11-21T23:33:07.227+0000)
The circlejerk is real. People are thinking item cost increases are nerfs when every single item got increased in price except for IE, which was actually nerfed and reduced in price to match the nerf.
I believe the emphasis on AP items' price changes comes with the fact that most other items (and by 'all items' I assume you are speaking of the ADC items, support items, and handful of other changes I remember seeing) had some sort of corresponding change, while the AP items costs were simply increased--as if the item would be made more effective by some other change. There was an increase in passive gold and jungle gold, but most laners' gold comes from farm, though I suppose that as it's no longer possible to purchase mana pots some extra gold may be accrued over time. I haven't done any calculations to see if the total accrual equals or nears the price increases, but I doubt it. Even so, I believe, even with trinket upgrades being free now, that a lot of the extra gold will simply be spent on wards and pots until some point past mid-game.
Zair Umbras1 votesWell, shut downs also give global gold rather than personal on top of turrets going quicker, farming starting sooner...
When you see that plus everything else getting 200g increase, it's all the same. BT lost 5 AD and got a huge increase in price, BotRK lost 2% and went up by 200g anyways. Majority of the tank items, with a few exceptions, went up by about 200g (The exceptions went up by 50).
The ONLY AP item that went up by more than 200g was Zhonya's because it's seen as the equivalent to a BT on an ADC. Defensive and offensive at the same time.
Redaga3 votesif you get out of board, and go read the 5.22 patch, most of the AD items that got a money increase or decrease, also got an stat equality upgraded or downgraded, while the AP item, aside from 1 or 2, every other single item simple got a price hike, Rabados is now 3800, hourglass got nerfed + a 500 gold cost, both 
and 
just got a price increase.. etc
Ryzing2Diamond2 votes
and 
are inseperable. How dare you.
NEOtheONE1 votesThey need to buff the mana scaling on Archangel's/Seraph's because the 5 min shorter on average game is 5 less minutes to fully stack. It pretty much forces you to always go tear first if you want to have a chance of finishing stacking. Which is a bad plan versus the AD caster mid spam that has been going on.
Zair Umbras1 votesIf you don't have it stacked by 15ish minutes (Average game time is about 20 minutes, just to the surrender vote) you probably fed REALLY hard and didn't buy your tear on the first B.
NEOtheONE1 votesAnd you didn't read did you? I said it forces you to go Tear first if you want to finish stacking. I prefer catalyst first on Anivia for the survivability. So there isn't enough time to stack a Tear you get on 2nd or 3rd back.
Zair Umbras1 votesWhy would you go Catalyst first..? lol... You're always supposed to get Tear first to stack it as quickly as possible. If you have survivability issues, then get MR glyphs.
Penguin Eclipse2 votesArchangel's Staff has been in need of an overhaul for years. Both tear-line items are. They take way too long to reach their full potential.
CrimsonCobra31 votesI haven't noticed a large difference myself, but at the same time, I think that itself may be a problem. Mages have been feeling rather stagnant, set into a small number of options and a limited role in the team. Due to the MR scaling on many tanks having been increased recently, it's getting harder for mages to do anything to anyone other than mages and squishy ADCs. However, between Phantom Dancer and Death's Dance, mages have more trouble doing their job--bursting down the high-priority targets. Add onto that increased prices, and mages generally feel less effective--even though they have experienced very few changes themselves. So while mages still feel the same when you play them, especially in mid lane, all alone against another APC, they feel significantly weaker in team-fights. (Or against an AD mid-laner like Zed and Yasuo.)
I suspect a mage update on a similar scale to the recent ADC update could be seen soon--but no assurance is given. My question is: why were AP items' prices changed only? Were they suspecting that the resurgence of ADCs would bring APCs into higher demand? Right now the best counter for a powerful ADC is often another powerful ADC.
~Crimson Cobra [3]
CrimsonCobra31 votesBut there have been a lot of changes to the total gameplay. Only time will tell exactly where AP casters fit into the meta. Riot probably won't change anything until we've all figured it out.
~Crimson Cobra [3]
PrinceOfStorms1 votesIs it time to revert the slew of nerfs that 
received last season?
Give %max back to her traps, instead of their single digit damage that they do now, and revert the spear nerfs.
Ninpire1 voteslol I just buy mejais every game
it's so fun and its much easier to stack now
Seenan1 votesI been playing some TT lately and honestly, whenever I'm an AP champion, whoever it may be, I always feel so...poor. Everything is so expensive and wooglets gives a ton less AP than raba. It's so awkward. VS used to be like 2250 or 2300 (I don't rem) at some point in S5, now it's 2650...Christ. I can't even assassinate as well as AP assassins because damage is seemingly lower too.
Maybe it's because bruisers/tanks are pretty prominent in TT, but even so.
Borbland1 votesAP mages deal more damage now, they just have to change builds to do so.
I go for CDR runes and Seraphin + Rod of Ages. With the tons of mana, you'll get about 100 bonus AP only with that, along with the high base AP off the items while never running out of mana. I personnaly always disliked Zhonya, and now it got gutted I have nearly no reason to build it (unless im against something like Zed).
It's tricky, since you have to rethink about everything, but AP magse arent as weak as I excpected them to be, I even feel like I do more damage now (With Zyra mid, and even Brand with Thunderlord's Decree (and not the broken Deathfire touch), Vel'Koz and Lux are still nice).
Also, with the adc's rising, those mages are geting stronger since they can poke well without fearing of retribution from something like Graves that could two-shot them. They also counter tanks that coutners adcs, since they can poke them down, with Liandries and Void Staff, also most tanks are builing armor to counter the adcs, so mages still can do tons of damage to them.
CrimsonCobra31 votesAP mages deal more damage now, they just have to change builds to do so.
I go for CDR runes and Seraphin + Rod of Ages. With the tons of mana, you'll get about 100 bonus AP only with that, along with the high base AP off the items while never running out of mana. I personnaly always disliked Zhonya, and now it got gutted I have nearly no reason to build it (unless im against something like Zed).
It's tricky, since you have to rethink about everything, but AP magse arent as weak as I excpected them to be, I even feel like I do more damage now (With Zyra mid, and even Brand with Thunderlord's Decree (and not the broken Deathfire touch), Vel'Koz and Lux are still nice).
Also, with the adc's rising, those mages are geting stronger since they can poke well without fearing of retribution from something like Graves that could two-shot them. They also counter tanks that coutners adcs, since they can poke them down, with Liandries and Void Staff, also most tanks are builing armor to counter the adcs, so mages still can do tons of damage to them.
I'll have to try that build. I did look at Rod of Ages--which actually looks to be an excellent item to build for a lot of mages now--though I am afraid that it'll become a must-have for some. I'm not sure yet since I haven't tried it, but it takes ten minutes to stack, during which time the game could easily go downhill... it's got good base stats though, so that shouldn't be too big of a issue.
I suppose I'm more concerned with another issue though. I'm more concerned that instead of a mage being the counter to the ADC, more ADCs will be seen as counter to other ADCs. I've already started to see that occur more often, and I'm worried mages will become almost secondary options. They probably won't but it's already less important to have a good mage on your team now, and I'd prefer to see more mages.
~Crimson Cobra [3]
TheOvermind1 votesLate game mages got rekt hard with those changes hard win rate drops across the board. Not that utility nearly game mages remain relevant. So rip karthus , veigar, xerath , Orianna , Syndra , vel'koz . I recommend compensation. Buffs for each one of em instead of reverting any changes
CrimsonCobra31 votesLate game mages got rekt hard with those changes hard win rate drops across the board. Not that utility nearly game mages remain relevant. So rip karthus , veigar, xerath , Orianna , Syndra , vel'koz . I recommend compensation. Buffs for each one of em instead of reverting any changes
I think a lot of mages need some help navigating the new system, but buffing them should be handled carefully--for instance, Veigar is so powerful that if he were made any stronger he could become unmanageable. So a straight buff to these champions is not necessarily the answer. And if they were given kit changes, those would need to be handled quite delicately as well, since they would essentially be modifying however many mages to fit a new system--one that is still quite new. I think that some changes to AP items should be made that gives mages more options in handling the system. Then maybe some changes to the stragglers.
~Crimson Cobra [3]
Spoofghoul1 votesAp champs need love?
Oerba No Naja1 votesImo ap are fine , ban yasuo and you can play
CrimsonCobra31 votesPart of the question is also whether or not mages are effective in the new meta brought about by the ADC changes. I think that for the most part they haven't changed. But at the same time they feel like they should have. I'd like it if there were more viable counter-ADC options besides Zhonya's. What with mercurial scimitar being better and death's dance's burst protection, ADC's can more effectively counter mages.
~Crimson Cobra [3]