So I was seeing posts about how badly nautilus was struggling, and how he desperately needed help in the new jungle. Now that patch 4.21 dropped I saw that Riot didn't touch him at all. So I searched the comments and boards and I haven't seen any posts about this. So is Nautilus actually fine then? Was it just a matter of finding the proper route?
Incognonymous8 votesJuggernaut's practically useless compared to Magus and Devourer, which is a shame because the last incarnation of Golem was actually really good. Taking off the gold gen passive was enormous to all junglers. Now you really do have to either farm or gank, and ganking is almost always preferred because of how brutal the monsters are. You CAN clear, no one disputes that, but pick Naut into Lee and you'll be begging for the old jungle back. That's fucking retarded. How is that possibly constructive? Oh, they're not ganking as early. Yeah, that's cool for the laners, but it gets fucking old after WW/Lee/Udyr kills me again and again in my own jungle despite my level, gold, health, and buff advantage.
How to fix: Update tanks. Mana costs have been meaningless gates almost exclusively meant for tanks for too long. In a game where Yasuo and Lee exist, you can't gate a champ with mana with a straight face. Cooldowns too. Look at Hecarim's W and E cooldowns and tell me that's okay.
Reintroduce the old Golem. The quill passive, the gold generation, the bonus health, etc.
Make some buffs give defensive assets. I don't even know why that isn't a thing.
For Naut specifically, make his W on hit persist as single target passively and leave the splash on activation. Make his passive on hit magic instead of physical. Lower the cooldown and mana cost of his Q so he can actually utilize the terrain hook. Up his base MS because Lee Sin exists with 350 MS despite HIS Q and W mobility. Update his model size to reflect the fact that he's a huge tank.
Knight SoIaire 4 votesUpdating the tanks is indeed a proper way of dealing with the problem but i think that you dont go deep enough
most of our forgotten tanks like naut rammus zac or cho need full kit reworks because the pure tanks dont realy exist atm
the base purpose of a tank is to soak damage without dealing it- thats the base model of a tank but in out current game most of our tanks use damage or whatever brute force they can to force themselves onto enemies the closes to true tank in our game is braun followed by maokai, while maokai is preety brutal he can soak some good damage without going ham on enemy adc
so if youu compare other tanks to braum you can clearly see that nnoone of them has any good tools that would allow them to take that damage on their hp bar
DeadXera3 votesNaut's in an okay spot for the most part, you just need to have a decent leash at gromp imo. I've actually been doing krugs into red first on him lately, because the stun proc does wonders to keep his shield alive, which in turn speeds up his clear time. You get low on mana by the time you hit blue buff, but smite's back by then and gives you a nice chunk back.
GanksLikeGast0n1 votesAwesome, I played him a fair amount last season and I've been avoiding him so far. It'll be nice to run him some more.
Chessburger2 votesHe's better than last season, that's for sure... played him for about 20 games in the new jungle and I'd say he's one of the best tank junglers right now. The variety of paths you can do also helps outplaying invaders. He's still a tank and an ap based one at that so he's still outclassed by AD and AS junglers because the jungle creeps have way too much hp mid/late. If you enjoy him, learn the jungle and learn to manage your shield and you'll be solid
Poorly Dressed1 votesGolems buff got nerfed from 5 to 6 hits to proc the stun :(
DeadXera1 votesTrue, but that still shouldn't ruin things too much. The important thing is to make sure that the same hit you activate W on is the one that procs the stun, to make sure you get the most damage from shield.
Knight SoIaire 1 votesokay spot ? whoever gets into your jungle goes out with a kill ... thats not okay
DeadXera2 votesNeither is hyperbole. two points in shield tanks through most camps long enough to mostly kill them, and past first clear you stay at pretty much full health. trailblazer helps speed up his cleartime, both because of AoE but more importantly by killing the little guys faster it greatly reduces the amount of damage your shield takes, which due to how the shield works gives you a substantial boost in clear speed.
I've been going AS marks, HP/lvl seals, 2 flat and 1 1.5% max HP quints (will eventually convert these over to % totally, but need IP for that) MR/level glyphs. even without a leash I'm able to clear Krugs/Red/Blue/wolves without backing. He's a teensy bit slow at red, but meh... he's a tank, that's not surprising.
Knight SoIaire 1 votesas marks dont increase w damage btw
DeadXera1 votesNot directly, but they increase how fast you attack, which in turn increases your overall clear speed (especially during moments when your shield is down!), and allows you to apply your passive more easily in teamfights. (The latter of which is something I think is HIGHLY underappreciated, because his attack frame is SLOOOOOOW and that little boost to AS helps speed it up to a much more manageable level during fights)
EDIT: Actually, I researched a bit further, and according to the Wiki Titan's Wrath deals half the listed damage on each hit. I'd need to do testing to verify that however.
Aurelius Maximus3 votesI have had ZERO problems with naut in the new jungle.
People must not be upgrading correctly or something.
Rinky Dinky1 votesAmen.
Mirage Seraph3 votesYeah, every time I played Naut Jungle I never thought "GEE this jungle sure is hard!" Start Gromp into blue then you're basically free to do whatever you want from there. Don't activate successive W's until you already take damage so it's not immediately broken, toss a Q on Gromp/Blue/etc to break his auto attack once if you absolutely need to, and go with Trailblazer (well maybe not with the CD nerf) for faster clears and you can basically stay healthy in the jungle while simultaneously ganking lanes.
Plus with Gromp's buff getting, well, buffed, things should be even easier now.
Though I still wish his damage wasn't tied to his shield to such an extent that it is now. Oh my shield is down? Time to wait for my 9+ second CD's in order to do anything of worth. You'd think getting smacked with an anchor over and over would do more than 40 physical damage while Jax is smacking people with a lamp post for 600 damage.
Silents4292 votesNautilus doesn't need a rework, Your silly for thinking so, He needs a change to his W so his damage isn't reliant on the shield. The best idea is to make the damage from his W continue even after the shield breaks. Obviously the damage being going away after however many seconds his W ends. This fixes him easily.
Second. Am I the ONLY Nautilus player who destroys anyone that tries counter jungling me? Seriously, Any time I have caught a person in my jungle or has tried killing me, I completely destroy them, or last long enough and keep them in place for a laner to finish them off. I have never once been killed in my jungle early on from another jungler. This might be because most people simply run from Lee Sin, and I instead Q him and start smacking him with my W after he has no abilities left..
Third, Junglers like Nautilus clear somewhat fine if they start Glomp then go blue, a lot of people still starting Blue/Red which honestly isn't a good idea anymore.
Darkwind2 votesNot sure what anyone was talking about really. I've played him a couple times and there's just no issue at all. You DO need to have good runes but... uh, that's kinda true for everyone :P Also helps to activate w ~5 seconds before your camp spawns. it'll break after ~4 seconds anyway, so using it early will let it come off cd sooner.
junglerboy161 votesI haven't tried Naut in the new jungle, but that sounds like an excellent tip. To the OP, I think all of the "Nautilus is awful in the new jungle" stuff probably was coming from either people who only saw the earliest PBE jungling clear videos (at that point, Nautilus was getting the crap kicked out of him by the jungle), or the people who think that the jungle is too hard and haven't adapted to how you need an actual strategy now. The earliest videos of the new jungle did make it look like Naut was going to suffer badly, but that was before any of the significant amounts of under the hood tuning (like champ base stats and jungle camp strength) got ironed out.
HalloweenDeath2 votesI haven't tried Naut in the new jungle, but that sounds like an excellent tip. To the OP, I think all of the "Nautilus is awful in the new jungle" stuff probably was coming from either people who only saw the earliest PBE jungling clear videos (at that point, Nautilus was getting the crap kicked out of him by the jungle), or the people who think that the jungle is too hard and haven't adapted to how you need an actual strategy now. The earliest videos of the new jungle did make it look like Naut was going to suffer badly, but that was before any of the significant amounts of under the hood tuning (like champ base stats and jungle camp strength) got ironed out.
I think it's just people who want the jungle to be nerfed and are just using nautilus as an example because on paper he should have a horrible time in the jungle but in practice hes better then most.
junglerboy161 votesAgreed.
HalloweenDeath1 votesI think people are far too quick to dismiss champions by only reading their skill set. Nautilus does good in the new jungle with an ok clear speed compared to every other jungler and a good clear time compared to other tanks. He doesn't take much damage because of his massive shield his first clear is perfectly fine and I find my self being able to gank after my first full clear at around 60-70% percent health(Depending on your runes/mastieres). People say his ganks are good but he struggles in the new jungle but I think it's the other way around his low movespeed and no way to avoid wards make it hard to gank because by the time you reach your enemy they will be far gone because of their wards but if you somehow manage to land a q without being caught it's almost a garenteed kill if your allie backs you up.
I find that starting gromp helps his ok clear time and makes it far easier to clear nautilus can easily solo blue after he gets gromp without taking much damage. Always put a point into shield when you get it, it's by far your most important spell.
After you're easy first clear your jungleing will be a peace of cake once your shield has 3 levels you will never take damage. Your clear time will be massively less than a damage dealing enemy after they get a few items but thats not that big of a deal now that the respawn times are pretty high now and usually they will take more damage then you unless they have good sustain.
I think the only thing they need to do to nautilus is improve his low ass movement speed and not his jungleing like people say and maybe give him a larger mana pool.
I think nautilus fairs infinity better then other tanks in the new jungle but for some reason people keep using him as an example to why the jungle needs to be nerfed which it does but you really should find other champions who struggle more to use as your example.
Rinky Dinky1 votesHe isnt struggling at all. Run attack speed runes, gg.
People just do not know what they are doing.
I can do a full clear, and have at least half hp.
SnackieCakes1 votesNautilus is actually very strong, though I think most people go with routes, builds, and strategies that just don't work so well. I mained Nautilus on my way to platinum. He's perfectly viable, though there are compositions for which is better and worse.
Check out my VERY extensive (read: wall) guide. I'll take you through the best set up, route, and tips for ganking and general success.
Alpha Omega 23491 votesIn this new meta nautalis rather needs some serious buffs or a rework I love him as he is but I agree with stonewall008 on this he is to dang fair he has cc out the butt but in his jungle he is terrified by pretty much any invade jungler ever Warwick Lee sin elece jarvan they all rip him appart and there is nothing the big guy can do. Nautalis needs damage or more tankyness he is a victim of good design because buffing him would make him a terror but then in the state he is in he is crap teir and it breaks my heart to see my first and favorite champion in this state please riot do something just buff his move speed to 335 increase the r and e ap ratios increase w scaling and maybe make the dot or aoe autos permanat so that he has damage change his passive to a stun with a 10 second cool down and get rid of the crit chance capability no one bulds crit naut anyways increase his base armor and Mr as well as scaleings nothing to dramatic though that would be obsene keep the mana costs the same or maybe increase them he dose have to have some weakness or he is doomed to be nerfed back the the abbissal state he is in right now overall the q can stay the same maybe lower the management costs and cool down so you can utilise dragin yourself around w needs more power to the shelf in a team fight it will break fast and the cool down is to much if you blow it preemptively E is OK maybe a little more power or make it pull people in the blast zone twords you passive get rid of the damage but make the snare a stun and give it a cool down of 10 7 4 seconds scalding with level note these are rough specks and increase the stun time on the ult as well as damage and ult animation speed it takes forever and ismsuper easy to spell shield ect hell while using ult iv been killed before It would go off and maybe increase the aoe if u are reading this riot thanks