Boards›Gameplay

No love for Lissandra?

Rixxen·Feb 16, 2017·34 votes·1,858 views

I check every pbe cycle update, hoping that there will be some kind of a small buff to , and I'm always disappointed.

She is one of the worst, if not THE worst midlane champion right now, just look at her pick/win rates. Her passive is barely useful after some levels, her mana costs are ridiculous, her damage is poor, and she has to build tanky because to do any damage she has to go right in the other champions face's, as opposite to other mages who will spam their spells from a more safer distance, and If you go full damage, even if you ult yourself, you''l be dead after it, 100%.

The only good thing she has in her favour is her CC, nothing more, she is pretty much a cc bot in her current state. I love playing her, she is pretty fun, but you can't rely on her to carry games, she is so team dependant that it makes me sad. The only way she is decent is in a team coordination environment (wich does not exist in soloq), because of her ability to lock down people, and make tp plays, otherwise she is complete trash.

So, any buff planned? A rework, at least to her passive? Or will she suffer from the same fate as other champions and be forgotten forever? The Ice Witch is such a compeling character, her lore is pretty cool, her playstyle is fun, its a shame to see such a great champion reach this state.

39 Comments

THE RlVER KlNGFeb 16, 20178 votes

Welcome to the club

Aatrox Azir Fiddlesticks Gragas Nunu Sejuani TahmKench DrMundo Heimerdinger Kalista Karthus Kindred Taliyah Udyr

RixxenFeb 16, 20173 votes

True. it bothers me that riot keeps releasing champ after cham, while leaving champions with so much potential completely in the dark, its just sad.

FaustavianFeb 17, 20172 votes

They have a rework team, and a new champion team; one just works faster than the other.

RixxenFeb 17, 20171 votes

Of course they have, they also have a game balance team, who keeps shitting the bed time after time.

MelledoneusFeb 17, 20172 votes

I dunno, they just cracked down on damage creep pretty hard this patch.

TheSingularityFeb 17, 20172 votes

tbh karth, kench and udyr are viable

JoeMGFeb 17, 20171 votes

Same with Heimer. But then there's my poor Kindred :(

THE RlVER KlNGFeb 17, 20171 votes

i can see arguments for udyr and karthus but tk is just bad and outclassed in this meta

the list is more about being forgotten then actual weakness, but whatever

SirΤeemοFeb 17, 20171 votes

yea... specially karthus... lul late game he just punish everyone.

SOLOQSUPERHEROFeb 16, 20175 votes

I love Liss too - I think she's just really oddly outclassed. She should ALWAYS be good, but she just isn't.

Her damage is really low, so you kind of want ignite for lane, especially if her jungler is low damage, but her tp plays can be so strong.

Her passive doesn't really help her, and it feels like her kit was designed around having that passive rather than the other way around. Like she had no passive, would you even notice?

The item update really made it hard for her to build everything she wants -- you can't build morellos, zhonyas, abyssal, and ionia boots anymore.

I think her kit itself is good, and it is strong but her passive is just lack luster. Even if it was tweaked slightly so the free spell had a ludens echo like effect, it would make a huge difference.

RixxenFeb 16, 20171 votes

I agree with you 100%.

I feel like her passive is useful like, levels 1 to 3, to maybe harass or last hit with q, and save some mana, after that is just like you said, having it or not having it would be the same.

Also her building path is just confusing, and I feel like there isn't a core build for her anymore.

I don't know what Riot is palnning for her, is she going to be reworked? I doubt it since we had a mage class rework not so long ago and she wasn't in it. A small rework? Like Alistar? Or maybe a change to her passive? Simple buffs to her mana costs?

This was the main reason for me to post here, to see if some rioter had anything to say about her, since no one speaks about her, and she seems totally forgotten.

SOLOQSUPERHEROFeb 16, 20171 votes

I mean you need cdr and zhonyas. So morellos, zhonyas. And then its a matter of what else.

Health feels good to build on her, but it's not easy to build because she needs cdr so roa falls out, plus her damage is low so she needs earlier power.

I think the more likely thing is a small tweak than a buff but hopefully rito will answer.

RixxenFeb 16, 20171 votes

Yup, i think getting 40% cdr is too important on her. But so is health. I always find myself struggling on what to build in a specific game.

I prefer to go morello, since it gives 20 cdr+ decent hp and also mana, then go zhonyas or abyssal, but if my team's comp lacks engage I usually force myself to build ROA and try to go more tanky, wich leaves me struggling with getting to the 40% cap, even with runes.

Then there was the hextech protobelt nerf, wich I think was another indirect nerf to her, since it would give her health, crd and good burst with the active.

Lets hope someone gives us any kind of answer.

NineTailedMysticFeb 17, 20171 votes

1020 + 2.35 AP Is low damage? She definitely doesn't need more if so, she's jam packed with CC and her Q is very spammable CD-wise.

SOLOQSUPERHEROFeb 17, 20171 votes

Her Q is spammable with cdr and levels, all her other spells have high cooldowns at low ranks.

Her damage is low early her rank 1 ultimate does 150 damage. and typically cannot use her E for damage as unless you flash you won't have the ability to use it for anything but a gap closer.

I don't think her spells need a damage buff on her abilities. I think they're fine and well balanced - I don't think she should have high damage, but I think she should have some clearer build paths and a useful passive.

RixxenFeb 17, 20171 votes

I don't see damage as her biggest issue, but its pretty low early levels. The q's are spammable but that's it. And her mana costs are just awful. Still, the main problem, from my perspective, its her passive, its just... garbage.

See You At BaronFeb 16, 20172 votes

Definitely an outclassed mid laner... I like her too... it sucks that she's kinda bad right now.

Tychusfindlay919Feb 16, 20172 votes

When her mid is decent, her top lane is unbearable to face. Maybe they could give her a little love though. Itd really have to be miniscule IMO

RixxenFeb 16, 20171 votes

I think that right now, not even her mid is decent, she used to be a great counter-pick vs assassins like zed or kata, and she can't do it anymore. And top is even worse. Build Spirit Visage and she is done.

Tychusfindlay919Feb 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I think that right now, not even her mid is decent, she used to be a great counter-pick vs assassins like zed or kata, and she can't do it anymore. And top is even worse. Build Spirit Visage and she is done.

Right, I'm just saying, before she was last nerfed, she was a decent counterpick mid, but made top lane just stupid. Her kit is total ass for melees to lane against, though that's mostly because dorans shield is a mediocre as shit item.

GrReaper96Feb 17, 20172 votes

Meanwhile champions like Syndra has great cc as well on top of having much higher damage and incredible range

ClementineFeb 17, 20172 votes

I think Zyra and Malz take the cake for worst mid lane champs.

Also, Liss's mobility and CC make her hard to balance and keep fair

RixxenFeb 17, 20171 votes

You could have said like, maybe, Azir? Because Malz is still decent mid, Zyra is a support, and they were (and still are) both obnoxious on the bot lane, so... I dont get it.

Liss mobility is basically is her E, wich has a long cooldown, so you either use it to engage or as an escape. She has a lot of cc, and thats it, right now. Of course she could never do a ton of damage, but thats not even the point. Look at her passive, is just close to non-existant, so changing it could be a strarting point.

And this thread is not about asking for buffs, it to try and get an answer on if riot has anything planned for her or not, simple.

ClementineFeb 17, 20171 votes

Azir is nearly unstoppable at 6 items in the hands of a skilled Azir player. Malz is awful since they nerfed his W, and the rework made his W everything. Now he can't run people out of lane or poke like he used to. Zyra is a mage and was intended to be a midlaner.

Liss's Passive was a bad idea all around, just like Heimer's.

Dominick DestineFeb 17, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lulu Hentai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3LXLcfkZ,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2017-02-17T02:31:29.684+0000)

Liss's mobility

LOL

GGLineaRFeb 17, 20172 votes

Plans within plans. She will be buffed in due time.

MelledoneusFeb 17, 20172 votes

In my opinion her passive should interact with the CC on her abilities, such as granting her a shield or bonus resistances/damage reduction for crowd controlling somebody.

She's already supposed to be a tanky battle mage, so why not emphasize that?

RixxenFeb 17, 20171 votes

I agree. I think her passive it's her biggest problem. Looking at other in-game passives, Liss's passive its only useful in the first few levels, after that its like it doesn't even exist.

Dominick DestineFeb 17, 20172 votes

Yeah she's complete garbo mid but she's a serviceable top laner.

RixxenFeb 17, 20171 votes

In my opinion, and on this meta right now, with things like naut, maokai, she isn't decent top by any means. Look at her rates.

Dominick DestineFeb 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

In my opinion, and on this meta right now, with things like naut, maokai, she isn't decent top by any means. Look at her rates.

Fair enough. She needs buffs.

AquariusGineFeb 17, 20171 votes

I really really like Liss, but she just isn't that good. I can't make her work

SkyeSmasherFeb 17, 20171 votes

I play Liss a lot right now and do fine, I get an s about 20% of the time. You just have to play her right, build her CDR AP and tanky. My first three items are usually item 3027 item 3001 and item 3157 for max CDR and survivability. Of course the build isn't all there is to it but its a start for someone who still wants to play her despite her current situation in the meta.

RixxenFeb 17, 20172 votes

I'm not doing that bad with her either, and I'm still winning games, but that doesn't mean she is good, 'cause she isn't. If you get ahead, you can carry, no doubt. But just fall too far behind or maybe get to that late game part when enemy frontline stacked mr, plus those redemptions being popped every fight, and you're gonna have a bad time.

I just don't want her to be forgotten at all, I would be happy with a minor buff to her mana costs or something like that, it would mean that atleast someone actually looked at her.

notice me Sin piFeb 17, 20171 votes

if she gets buffed a bit (unless it's only ratios and nothing else), i have a feeling she'd be used as support given the utility she already has

GigaPubeFeb 17, 20171 votes

i just realized the mage update passed and she still has that horrible passive. probably the worst passive in the game. i guess that means riot condones it?!?!?

SpoofghoulFeb 17, 20171 votes

they gave Lissandra the cold shoulder

EvenstarFeb 18, 20171 votes

Lissandra garbage? Far from it. Weak? Not at all. Useless Passive? It depends on how you look at it but it is still a useful part of her ability late game.

I don't know how you build Lissandra, but if I'm just gonna say if you build her RoA followed by utility items such as Hextech Protobelt, you'll probably feel unimpactful AF. Lissandra's matchup are all very even for her. And she counters meta assassins super hard. Basically anyone who chooses to dive her when her ultimate and W is up are just asking for a mercy kill.

And, if you're taking DFT, you're doing it wrong. Lissandra can do so much damage if you kite and weave Qs in between. Her entire kit scales so well with Liandries if you're looking for sustained damage and Void just gives her the burst she needs.

The only thing that really screws her over is Magic Resist. Maw in particular renders her completely useless after her first rotation. Her passive is probably not the best, but so are passives like Karma's. But quite frankly, you bring Lissandra in to shut down important targets. Her range sucks yes, but all of her matchups are even. I only see people like Malzahar, Vel Koz, Talon fucking her over. Everyone else without a maw is a 50-50 thing.

RixxenFeb 18, 20171 votes

I almost stopped at "is still a useful part of her ability late game." Do you even know what her passive does? Late game? With full build? In a teamfight for example? Cmon... She actually scalles good mid, and falls hard late, once everyone its full build, its a known fact, but dont seem to know. Then you say its because people buy roa? For real? Is that the problem? Try going full damage and see how many time you'll be alive in a tf unless you ult yourself. I'm sorry, but you either don't play the game in this current meta, of tanks, redemptions, lethality and so on, or you stopped playing before the mage and assassin reworks. The problem is not her overall damage, is the current meta where almost every other mid (and even support) will out-damage her so hard, and will bring so much more to table that everything she has in her favour is cc. Go ahead and try to get even close to the enemy back line, good luck going through that nautilus with stacked mr, the ivern or karma shielding, and redemptions and locket being popped in every fight, If anyone is going to die, its you. Her current state is bad, its a fact, everyone can check it.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.

GameplayJul 18, 2015764 comments

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.

GameplaySep 1, 2015156 comments

GameplayApr 1, 2016606 comments

GameplayDec 21, 2014456 comments

3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.

GameplaySep 17, 2015114 comments

When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?

GameplayNov 30, 2014634 comments