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AP Build Diversity for Melee AP Champs

Rasputin424·12/27/2019, 8:19:42 AM·2 votes·2,736 views

Dear Riot,

As a Mordekaiser and Diana main I deal constantly with AP items. As such I have noticed the lack of diversity in item build paths and considering a few years ago (not sure how long exactly) you guys did a simplification of AD item build paths I am asking that you re-evaluate AP item build paths as the game becomes more fast paced and combat more frequent and liquid. I say this because while ranged AP champs are in a good place at the moment melee AP champs feel like the bastard child of league. Of course the argument can be made by many that Morde and Diana are OP at the moment but I think that is more of an issue with their kits/ratios than their items. The same can be said of Yasuo, Garen, Aphelios and a lot of other AD carry champs but the difference is they have access to the simplified build paths that AP champs do not.

To illustrate: With item 3086 Yasuo or Aphelios can build item 3085 item 3087 item 3094 item 3046 now of course Yasuo wouldn't build item 3085 but the other three are viable and create a significant fist item power spike to a melee champ with significantly low cooldowns all the while item 3086 providing ample value before the final item. Apart from the base stats he has the option of item 3046 for shield, item 3087 for wave clear and poke, item 3094 for on hit damage. Conversely Mordekaiser's 1st item power spike arguably comes from item 3116 which builds from item 1026 which is its key component but is not a key component to any other significant early game item or provides any other value than a stat. other examples are item 3916 item 3136 item 3191 which build into item 3165 item 3151 item 3157 respectively and while I do not discount the value of these items they are arguably very niche and with the champion trend toward high attack speed, high damage, mobile, squishy champs they only really see value if you are level with your opponent or ahead correction if your team is level with your opponents or ahead. I have watched countless high elo Morde players dominate early game but become almost useless late game because they build damage and health but nothing else or their bot or mid lane feeds so the enemy adc or mid hits like a truck and erases their health bar with three hits or 2/3 spells .

Now i'm not saying it's impossible to win but it becomes tricky playing a top lane AP melee champ and your ideal build consists of pigeonholed items or tank items.

Another thing I noticed, I wonder about this and hope maybe this might get addressed. Why does item 3211 build into item 3065 but item 1033 build into item 3102. Why I ask is because as I said above in today's game health is not as valuable as resistances in my opinion and as a melee AP champ sustain counts more to team fights and team fight survivability especially late game. While item 3065 is a great item it's not a great first item unless you're Nasus going against an AP champ and it doesn't add much to your sustain late game especially with all the huge burst damage champs and champs with executes now in the game--believe me I've tested it. item 3102 on the other hand when completed, is a beauty of an item but doesn't provide true bang for your buck until finished which again in my opinion puts the AD champ at a significant advantage early game.

Lastly, item 3191 only builds into item 3157 which is the only offensive AP item with AR as opposed to item 3155 which build into item 3156 with item 3139 and item 3091 also being alternative options which all provide AD and MR, again options. Now I know Riot has said that they want to shy away from mirror items in AD and AP so i'm not asking for mirrored items but some diversity would be greatly appreciated.

I must say that I love the way the game has evolved since I started playing in 2015 even though I took a two year hiatus from the game to pursue Paragon R.I.P. Paragon 2016-2018. I've always had a love for League and its diversity as well as its lore and storytelling. I can tell Riot's developers love the game and it shows and that is greatly appreciated. Anyways that's my 2 cents, I hope someone from Riot sees this and at least reads it.

PS: I also think more AP build and item diversity will prevent the current item 3504 issue because while it works for Diana if it is too potent it will get nerfed and that would adversely affect AP supports. Also more CDR AP items would be nice because CDR is to AP what ATK SPD is to AD ijs.

11 Comments

ProphetOfDraven12/27/2019, 4:30:50 PM2 votes

Neither AP bruisers or AD bruisers have good MR itemization. item 3139 has terrible stats and item 3156 doesn't stack with item 3053 which is better under all circumstances. Both pretty much have to go for item 3111 or item 3065 or have no MR.

item 3102 builds out of just a item 1033 because they didnt want mages just sitting on a item 1057 and being unburstable with only 720, forcing them to finish the item if they want that effect.

Anyway as an AP bruiser player too I think we just need another Health CDR and AP item. Only Protobelt currently fills this slot. item 3067 + item 3802 Sounds pretty good for a 20% cdr item that we really need, but Morde wouldn't be able to build it. It either needs to be melee only or have mana or have an on AA effect ( like spell blade ) because Vlad would be abuse it pretty hard otherwise.

Here is an item concept I had

Spellfire Sabre item 3802 + item 3067 + 1300G = 3400G 250 Health 70 AP 400 Mana 10% Cooldown Reduction

UNIQUE Passive - Haste: This item gains an additional 10% Cooldown Reduction. UNIQUE Passive - Spellfire: After casting a spell gain one stack of spellfire, auto attacks consume one stack of spellfire and deal 60 + 15% AP in a 200 AOE. Melee champions gain 30% to 60% AS based on level while they have spellfire stacks.

21.75 x 70 + 2.66 x 250 + 1.4 x 400 + 266 x 2 = 3279.5/3400 = 96% gold efficiency

Kinda achieves the same thing as item 3504 on Diana.

MordridtheBlack12/27/2019, 12:58:08 PM1 votes

i'm going to pick and choose some stuff to talk about in your post

while having items that are "pidgeonholed" isn't good technically...it makes sense due to how some champions function

a key example of a top lane AP champ and a pidgeonholed item is Vladimir and item 3065 Because Vlad uses his own health for his abilities, having HP regen is a nice bonus. plus the passive from SV helps out since Vlad does have some self heal in his kit...thus making that drawback less impactful

item 3102 is a very...very situational item; sure it has more MR than SV and actually offers AP (as well as CDR) but you are mainly getting it not for any of that. You are generally grabbing it for the passive. The same thing could viably be said for item 3157 only you grab it for the active.

as for item 3156 item 3139 item 3091 you won't be building all of those as they each have their own place in certain builds with the exception of WE, the other two items are rather common AD jungle items (usually in the third or fourth slot)

and there is plenty of AP build diversity, we just choose to always build the same items because; a) the other items are situational, b) not optimal for the champion, c) the item[s] are off-meta, d) a combination of the above

and you don't need to build an AP champ with AP items, there are plenty of builds that use AD items for AP champs

Voluug1312/27/2019, 4:41:35 PM1 votes

Sure.

Delete AP assassins first, or else those will Ezreal literally any AP item that gives good AP and tankiness at good gold effectiveness.

Remember Ahri item 3116 ? Do you really want Akali with bruiser itemization?