Just a reminder

macromite·May 18, 2017·7 votes·393 views

has a mechanic in his kit that specifically exists to remove counterplay. .25 second snare on ult cast. even with his ult not being dodgable in the usual case.

24 Comments

Fed by Snu SnuMay 18, 20172 votes

It's also a supression just to make sure that Tenacity doesn't affect that mechanic.

But hey, at least you can cleanse if you are fast enough. :')

EedatMay 18, 20171 votes

It's also a supression

at least you can cleanse if you are fast enough

Then it cant be a suppression because Cleanse doesnt work on suppressions.

macromiteMay 18, 20171 votes

when talking about cleanse assume they mean qss, or cleanse effects. summoner 1 is a meme, no one uses it.

Fed by Snu SnuMay 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Then it cant be a suppression because Cleanse doesnt work on suppressions.

Scimitar/Sash cleanse does.

You just have to invest in it and be 0.24 seconds faster.

JoxcabMay 18, 20171 votes

You realize the reason for that is because the ultimate animation time is extremely long for a targeted knockback ability?

It's to stop you from just walking out which would be bad for visual clarity when you still get kicked in your original direction anyways.

If you want it removed, make the animation instant instead. That would honestly fit better anyways. The animation being so long is weird.

QSS + Flash can still near instantly undo the effect of his kick.

macromiteMay 18, 20174 votes

You see in the old days, that was considered his ultimates counterplay, you could redirect it.

JoxcabMay 18, 20172 votes

Yes because it's totally "counterplay" for you to be able to literally just fucking walk away from an ultimate to nullify it.

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

macromiteMay 18, 20173 votes

you can't do that though, his ult doesn't break on distance.

The other champion with .25 second on cast snare you can, but not lee.

JoxcabMay 18, 20171 votes

What do you mean break on distance? It doesn't stop the ultimate. But if you could just walk away, but then you still got teleported back to your original spot before you walked away then got kicked, that'd be bad for visual clarity. And that's what would happen. You don't get to just walk out to completely nullify the whole point of the ultimate being to kick you in a specific direction.

Either stop complaining or make the animation instant so it doesn't need the snare.

macromiteMay 18, 20172 votes

but then you still got teleported back to your original spot before you walked away then got kicked

It doesn't do that though. I don't know why you would think that.

JoxcabMay 18, 20171 votes

Do you know what the word "if" means?

Lee Sin's ultimate has a long windup animation but it's still targeted.

You'd get kicked along your original trajectory whether you moved or not if you wanted the snare removed but not the animation time decreased.

If you want the snare removed, make the animation instant. If you don't want an instant animation, you don't get to get rid of the snare.

macromiteMay 18, 20172 votes

You'd get kicked along your original trajectory whether you moved or not if you wanted the snare removed but not the animation time decreased.

It doesn't do that though. I don't know why you would think that.

JoxcabMay 18, 20171 votes

What are you even talking about?

It's a targeted knockback ultimate. You don't get to just walk away and change the direction just because it's a long animation time for free. That's why QSS + blink is a thing, but not walking out.

What happens if you literally just walk past him before he kicks you lmao? He visually wouldn't kick you but you'd still be kicked anyways.

If you could just walk out to nullify the entire fucking point like you're whining about, it'd be a completely fucking useless trash ability.

macromiteMay 19, 20171 votes

the knockback is specifically away from lee sin, back before the snare you could redirect it by changing your position in relation to him.

I mean, I don't see them attaching a snare to comparable abilities, Garen doesn't have an ult snare, AurelionSol doesn't have an ult snare, Veigar doesn't have an ult snare. LeeSin doesn't need it, and he didn't need it before he had it, there was more counterplay to him, but in all fairness every character needs counterplay.

JoxcabMay 19, 20171 votes

Do you not get how fucking silly it would be and how trash it would make the ability if you could literally just walk away before the animation finished to completely defeat the whole point of the ultimate?

macromiteMay 19, 20171 votes

Do you not get how fucking silly it would be and how trash it would make the ability if you could literally just walk away before the animation finished to completely defeat the whole point of the ultimate?

I have no idea what this is or why you keep saying it. Lee's ult doesn't break on distance, I don't know why you think it does.

JoxcabMay 19, 20171 votes

It'd help if you stopped making up strawman arguments.

I never said it breaks. I explicitly said to the opposite, actually.

But if you could just walk away, that would affect where you were kicked/direction/where you'd end up at the end of the flight.

That completely defeats the whole point of the ultimate and makes it useless trash.

What if people could just have time to walk away before Lissandra's ult froze them if her ultimate theoretically had a longer animation prep time with nothing preventing them from walking away?

What about Malzahar's ultimate?

But even moreso than that, Lissandra and Malzahar's hold someone in place.

The focus of Lee's ult is to specifically kick them in a SPECIFIC DIRECTION AND DISTANCE.

If you could just walk away and change that, the ultimate is fucking trash.

macromiteMay 20, 20171 votes

I would be able to help you if you didn't keep making things up and deciding those things were fact.

EDIT: I should mention it is actually completely possible to dodge a liss ult and a malz ult after the cast, the cc still affects you but you take no damage, or if you use an ability that grant untargetability I think It doesn't affect you at all.

Neither of those champions have a snare on their ult cast, and lee does, even though you can never dodge the damage or the cc of his without untragetability.

JoxcabMay 20, 20171 votes

Yes because Lissandra and Malzahar's ultimates are both almost instantaneously cast.

I'm saying if they THEORETICALLY had a longer cast time like Lee Sin's did, then without a snare like his, they could just walk out to change where they were eventually stunned/suppressed respectively. That already ruins a large portion of the point of the ultimate itself given you don't want them to just walk out, you wanted to CC them in that spot.

Now if Lee Sin's kick is based entirely around kicking them in a specific direction rather than just locking them down in a spot, and you could literally just walk out with a single right mouse button click to change where you were kicked, do you seriously not see the problem with that? The snare is only there because he has such a long animation time as compared to most other single-target targeted CC abilities and his ultimate is specifically meant so that they can't just walk out before it finishes (unlike things like Maokai's W for instance which is slower specifically so it can follow dashes/etc). If you don't want the snare, the ultimate animation windup time has to be removed, thus making it an instantaneous kick instead of a long delayed animation into the kick back. Is that what you want?

It Hertz When IPMay 18, 20172 votes

Anivia Braum Illaoi Heimerdinger Q Lux KogMaw Morgana MissFortune Maokai Rumble

I'd say that "walking" out of an ultimate is an acceptable tactic.

JoxcabMay 18, 20171 votes

Out of those, only Brand's and Morgana's aren't dodgeable. Brand's is reliant on getting multiple ticks hence counterplay is walking out. Morgana's is an AoE large range stun with a prep time so walking out is counterplay.

Lee Sin is single target melee range where the entire point is to knock them in a specific direction, it's not about just pure damage or just CC without any other factors.

That doesn't apply.

It Hertz When IPMay 18, 20173 votes

All of them have ultimates whose primary form of counterplay is "move the fuck out of the way/zone". Hell, in teamfights Illaoi really needs people to be stupid enough not to leave her ult if she wants to dish out a substantial percentage of her damage.

JoxcabMay 18, 20171 votes

Which has nothing to do with Lee's ultimate lmao.

You're not supposed to be able to just walk out.