I bought bard for 975rp. I have used up all of my free refunds and am sad to tell you that I cannot refund him. He is sooooooooooooooo bad and I would refund him if I could yet cannot. So riot plx buff him. Give his q more damage or its slow last longer. Have his alt do damage to enemies and heal allies but as of now he is soooooo bad and you guys need to buff him.
Kazaashi2 votesJust because a champ has a high skill cap, doesn't mean they are bad. He may be undertuned at the moment, but he is certainly not bad. His power is very situational, so it is not as easy to see as, say, LB whose scaling and dmg are very noticeable.
Sightless662 votesHe has a high skill cap, and he's bad. I'd say he's still worse than every other champion in the game. That's bad in my book.
Kazaashi2 votesHe has a high skill cap, and he's bad. I'd say he's still worse than every other champion in the game. That's bad in my book.
I am not seeing that when I play him. I'm 8W 3L with him and the 3 losses are from a vayne trying to out trade a Draven levels 1-3, a Jinx who wouldn't know the meaning of the phrase CS, and a Trist that AFK'd 10 mins into the game.
tofutime1 votesTo be fair, anything really works in Bronze. You'll have a much higher winrate if you picked a different support.
Kazaashi1 votesTo be fair, anything really works in Bronze. You'll have a much higher winrate if you picked a different support.
I main supp, so I know how other supports work. I also play more carry oriented roles in Ranked, because, you know, Bronzies and teamwork don't usually happen together. lol
I've only played 1 ranked game with him, I need to play about 20 more normals with him before I am ready for Ranked with him. In that game, I also found out Zyra is damn good against Bard.
tofutime1 votesI am curious. What do you see in bard that he brings that other supports don't.
Sightless663 votesYou're doing well with him. That's good for you, but it doesn't convince me of anything. People can always win games if they happen to be more skilled than their opponents. I mean, I'm 6/0 with AD Zilean. Doesn't prove he's a good champion.
I see a bunch of people I know are great support players failing consistently on him with more games than you. I've played against him multiple times, and I haven't lost a lane against him yet. I've seen him be completely useless in teamfights even when he lands great ults. Statistically, even people with more than 50 games on him are only getting an average of around a 45% winrate. Aside from Kassadin, that's the worst in the game. I don't believe for a second that this patch fixed all those problems.
If it's working for you and you're having fun, keep playing it and enjoying it and all that good stuff, but I'm sticking with "worst champion in the game (except maybe Kassadin)" until I see some good proof otherwise.
Kazaashi1 votesYou're doing well with him. That's good for you, but it doesn't convince me of anything. People can always win games if they happen to be more skilled than their opponents. I mean, I'm 6/0 with AD Zilean. Doesn't prove he's a good champion.
I see a bunch of people I know are great support players failing consistently on him with more games than you. I've played against him multiple times, and I haven't lost a lane against him yet. I've seen him be completely useless in teamfights even when he lands great ults. Statistically, even people with more than 50 games on him are only getting an average of around a 45% winrate. Aside from Kassadin, that's the worst in the game. I don't believe for a second that this patch fixed all those problems.
If it's working for you and you're having fun, keep playing it and enjoying it and all that good stuff, but I'm sticking with "worst champion in the game (except maybe Kassadin)" until I see some good proof otherwise.
What is Lee Sin's Win Rate, and how many people QQ about him being OP? (I'm not one of those, just an illustration)
I would say that most supports can be useless in teamfights, just they contribute dmg, so even if they don't use thier skills optimally, they will still have an effect. Bard doesn't have that, but he makes up for it by have WAAAAAAAAAAAY more utility than other supports. It's just not very apparent. If your team is any good at rotations, vision control, and minion waves control you can out meneuver the enemy team, pick off some key members and take some objectives.
Is it Bards fault when the team doesn't follow up properly, or the ADC doesn't pick up his health shrines in lane? Not trying to sound salty, but I've had people do this in games when I was playing him and call him useless. Yea, I'm useless if you don't make use of me.
I feel like people perceive Bard to be bad, so they do things to confirm this in game (either subconsciously or consciously).
Sightless661 votesWhat is Lee Sin's Win Rate, and how many people QQ about him being OP?
At 50 games or above, 49%. I'm not complaining about Lee Sin.
This proves nothing. Just because people sometimes complain about champions incorrectly doesn't mean they do it all the time. I can cite examples too. People complained that Veigar and Kassadin were going to be too weak after their changes, and they were right. This kind of discussion means nothing.
I would say that most supports can be useless in teamfights, just they contribute dmg, so even if they don't use thier skills optimally, they will still have an effect.
I disagree. I play supports specifically because they can impact teamfights massively. Bard has a unique uselessness in teamfights. 2 of his abilities can have absolutely no impact if a teamfight doesn't start on his terms, and the ultimate can also have a very low impact. The heal shrines are weak in the late game even under ideal conditions, but if he doesn't stack them up before a fight starts, they do almost nothing. Depending on where an engagement happens, the magical journey can also contribute nothing to a fight. The ultimate can be useful, but if an enemy has already engaged in a successful position, using it to effectively prevent losses without also screwing teammates can be next to impossible. I would take literally any support in a teamfight over Bard.
Bard doesn't have that, but he makes up for it by have WAAAAAAAAAAAY more utility than other supports.
No, he has different utility, and the usefulness it has is much more situational.
If your team is any good at rotations, vision control, and minion waves control you can out meneuver the enemy team, pick off some key members and take some objectives.
I can do that with other supports too. A Blitz or Thresh hook or a Leona ult can make picks very easily, and they don't risk uselessness during teamfights. Bard offers a few more options for the team rotations, but they can't make up for his weaknesses. I'd much rather have Leona roaming with me than have Bard roaming with me.
This would be much more true if Bard wasn't so undertuned. His numbers are just too low. He could work in theory, but right now, he's just too weak.
Is it Bards fault when the team doesn't follow up properly, or the ADC doesn't pick up his health shrines in lane?
Two things. First, I don't see this happen anymore. If I lay a heal shrine, it gets picked up once it powers up. If I ult someone, the team will engage. I think he's bad despite that. Understand that when I'm saying that Bard is bad, it's not because he's being played with people who don't know that the champion's abilities do.
Second, it is Bard's fault that he has a minimal teamfight contribution outside of the ultimate. It is also Bard's fault that even with the healing shrines he offers very little in lane. His Q is decent, but his meep damage is very easily punished because of his 500 range. He's extremely easy to trade against, and if he starts losing even a little, bullying his carry becomes stupidly easy, particularly since you're guaranteed full-exp denying potential if he ever roams at that point.
I feel like people perceive Bard to be bad, so they do things to confirm this in game (either subconsciously or consciously).
I do not accept this as being a major reason for his current lack of success. Numerically, he's undertuned.
Kazaashi1 votesAt 50 games or above, 49%. I'm not complaining about Lee Sin.
This proves nothing. Just because people sometimes complain about champions incorrectly doesn't mean they do it all the time. I can cite examples too. People complained that Veigar and Kassadin were going to be too weak after their changes, and they were right. This kind of discussion means nothing.
I disagree. I play supports specifically because they can impact teamfights massively. Bard has a unique uselessness in teamfights. 2 of his abilities can have absolutely no impact if a teamfight doesn't start on his terms, and the ultimate can also have a very low impact. The heal shrines are weak in the late game even under ideal conditions, but if he doesn't stack them up before a fight starts, they do almost nothing. Depending on where an engagement happens, the magical journey can also contribute nothing to a fight. The ultimate can be useful, but if an enemy has already engaged in a successful position, using it to effectively prevent losses without also screwing teammates can be next to impossible. I would take literally any support in a teamfight over Bard.
No, he has different utility, and the usefulness it has is much more situational.
I can do that with other supports too. A Blitz or Thresh hook or a Leona ult can make picks very easily, and they don't risk uselessness during teamfights. Bard offers a few more options for the team rotations, but they can't make up for his weaknesses. I'd much rather have Leona roaming with me than have Bard roaming with me.
This would be much more true if Bard wasn't so undertuned. His numbers are just too low. He could work in theory, but right now, he's just too weak.
Two things. First, I don't see this happen anymore. If I lay a heal shrine, it gets picked up once it powers up. If I ult someone, the team will engage. I think he's bad despite that. Understand that when I'm saying that Bard is bad, it's not because he's being played with people who don't know that the champion's abilities do.
Second, it is Bard's fault that he has a minimal teamfight contribution outside of the ultimate. It is also Bard's fault that even with the healing shrines he offers very little in lane. His Q is decent, but his meep damage is very easily punished because of his 500 range. He's extremely easy to trade against, and if he starts losing even a little, bullying his carry becomes stupidly easy, particularly since you're guaranteed full-exp denying potential if he ever roams at that point.
I do not accept this as being a major reason for his current lack of success. Numerically, he's undertuned.
I actually agree about 80-90% of what you are saying. I can't wait for him to be tuned up. I just feel that the amount of utility he offers offsets his weak numbers. Basically, he's weaker than he should be, but that doesn't make him bad, per say.
Sightless661 votesI don't think it offsets his weak numbers. I think it could offset numbers that were slightly higher, but he doesn't have enough right now.
Bad is just a relative term for me. I think he's worse than all other champions, which means bad. He can still be played successfully. He can carry teams and make plays. A skilled player can use him to triumph. His design is still good, and I think he's fun, just undertuned.
Ape ded I Kled1 votesBard is OP
Kazaashi1 votesHis HUGE ult range make for some great picks. He can make the most of map vision with his E and ult. You can toss his ult from the mid inner turret, into the mid lane, then magical journey into the lane, heal the mid to help the chase, and land the stun to secure the kill.
Mostly I see that Bard brings ultimate flexibility to a team. His scaling are crap, so he is not dependant on any certain items (other than sightstone + gold generation item). You can literally build him completely differently depending on the enemy team comp.
I do think that he is a bit under tuned. Mostly I just want like a minion sized extension of the first part of his Q and he will be fine.
Black Coffee 6661 votesdont spend real money on champions, pro tip. also he got a buff this morning
