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How about that Ranked

SirCyrel··2 votes·1,062 views

So maybe its just me (I doubt it), but why is the ranking system so dependent on the team winning or loosing? I understand its a team game but playing Solo queue you could be matched with anyone.

According to Shorty Peewee (Riot Games Player Support) "10 games are created every second, in that one minute more than 600 games will have been created...." That 6,000 players you have the potential to have been matched with. Well technically 5,999 plus you. So when i say anyone i mean anyone, Drunk people, High people, Feeders, Disconnects, Toxic players, Quitters, Whiners, and blamers.

Or you could get matched with an awesome group of people. In either case you have the potential to Win or Loose. You could play horribly and i mean absolutely terrible and your team could carry you all the way to victory and rest assured you will gain LP. Then again you could play the game of your life and still loose for any number of reasons, Disconnects, rage quitters, bad team comp or just a bad game for your team and you will lose LP.

Considering the way riot handles its rankings, 5v5 Team, 3v3 Team and Top Solo Queue Players it seems to me Solo queue should count more on the players skill. With ratios like players experiencing "50, 60, 70 and even 80 % of their games have Leavers/AFKs." - Lyte Lead Social Systems Designer In this article Here I believe a players skill would be provide much more accurate representation of their ability to play and in turn there their ranking.

Thoughts?

EDIT The above link is an older post from nearly a year ago. However is was what Riot support provided me to address my concerns in an email.

Also to clarify my thoughts ...

Being realistic we do know it takes skill to play as a team, It takes skill to play your role, to assist your team in getting kills and in scoring kills yourself. Would you agree this is all true?

That is what i believe and that is why i believe it should all be a factor in some form or fashion, Not just the win or Loss. As for how that is implemented if ever, That would be up to Riot.

27 Comments

khorney3 votes

I mean every single game in league is winnable . often times a person who feeds is blamed for the loss however I lost a game and yes someone fed but I would blame my teams adc for the loss vices the feeder because any engagement she could've easily had way more kills but ran away from me the supp who could've peeled like a boss but yah. Or this 4v5 my teams zed was fed and my team had 3 tanks I was taric adc was afk we were doing good then our zed was messing around stating we were going to lose I got mad and reported him he was like I didn't think we would win so he stated I'll try now umm to late they pushed 3 turrets while you were up too trying to 1v1 we could be won the 4v4 no problem while there adc was up top.... Again 1 misplay will lose you the game not from someone feeding the thing that I get bugged about is when someone doesn't build right I mean if your dying a lot I don't care who you are build tank and tgats it

Jamaree2 votes

Then the game shifts from trying to work as a team to end to playing for one's self and KDA rather then actually winning, and no one would want to play support.

NøÐe2 votes

That doesnt make sense........ why wouldnt anyone want to win if they have a good KDA or simply carrying the game. Games would just be more competitive in my opinion if KDA's were a matter in ranked games, rather than feeding and not doing the best. Riot should do something like champion mastery points in ranked.....Good grades = more LP points

EDIT: Its just like saying "I got a pentakill......I should lose this game and give up"

Jamaree1 votes

{quoted}

That doesnt make sense........ why wouldnt anyone want to win if they have a good KDA or simply carrying the game.

Because instead of doing the plays that end the game, like securing dragon, baron, or etc, people will think "Wait a minute, I can go up higher, and get more points by killing people, why would I want to end, when I can keep bolstering my score?"

Games would just be more competitive in my opinion if KDA's were a matter in ranked games, rather than feeding and not doing the best.

No, it would have more people playing for themselves then for the team to get more points.

EDIT: Its just like saying "I got a pentakill......I should lose this game and give up"

And I'm saying people will focus on only getting kills instead of getting objectives.

NøÐe2 votes

That is true in low elo games. But I think you can agree in diamond+......if KDA's were a matter, it would be more competitive. Now if you tell me that diamond+ players would not go for objectives while going for good KDA, then idk what to say*

Jamaree1 votes

Yeah, in Diamond where people actually know what they are doing and know when it would be time to stop, yeah, yeah they would, not what about every other elo, including yours where people would keep farming, split pushing and refusing to group to do so or is this another case where it is ok to do so now, but we will complain that Riot only cares about high elo when a system like this gets pushed through?

NøÐe1 votes

People who are in low elos are there because they are meant to.....Because they dont have the skill/knowledge to fully understand what to do. Your point is true but it is what it is and nothing can change in low elo. People who are lets say "diamond" and go on smurfs in low elos..... can EASILY get out of that place with ease. 1 player who is fed and extremely carrying the game can easily win the game without the full help of other 4 players.

All im saying is with KDA's, CS stats, etc....being added into ranked game. It will help some players realize, "Oh I should do good and try to win the game"....Like I mentioned earlier, just like champion mastery point system.....Good Grades = more LP points.

Jamaree1 votes

{quoted}

All im saying is with KDA's, CS stats, etc....being added into ranked game. It will help some players realize, "Oh I should do good and try to win the game"....Like I mentioned earlier, just like champion mastery point system.....Good Grades = more LP points.

It will make half of them realize that they should try hard, you know, the players who already want to go up, while the others who troll and such, only go down lower to punish others on the way on top of not changing anything while also punishing support players.

NøÐe2 votes

Dude I dont think you are understanding what im trying to say here.... Do you not know what champion mastery system does? Even if you play a support champion and still lost the game....you can still get an S+ for doing good at your role.

For Example: -GOOD KDA, GOOD CS, GOOD KILL CONTRIBUTION, GOOD DMG DEALING = Good grade and get more than expected LP (maybe even a little bonus for the S+ rank) -GOOD KDA, GOOD CS, GOOD KILL CONTRIBUTION, GOOD DMG DEALING.........BUT STILL LOST THE GAME = Good grade and less loss of LP than expected ( That way it doesnt punish you for doing your best at the match ).

If you seriously dont understand my point^.......Im done arguing with you. I dont see how anyone would complain to Riot with what I just mentioned above. ( It doesnt punish anyone but gives reward for doing your best ).

Jamaree1 votes

{quoted}

Dude I dont think you are understanding what im trying to say here....

And you aren't understanding what I'm saying.

For Example: -GOOD KDA, GOOD CS, GOOD KILL CONTRIBUTION, GOOD DMG DEALING = Good grade and get more than expected LP (maybe even a little bonus for the S+ rank) -GOOD KDA, GOOD CS, GOOD KILL CONTRIBUTION, GOOD DMG DEALING.........BUT STILL LOST THE GAME = Good grade and less loss of LP than expected ( That way it doesnt punish you for doing your best at the match ).

If you seriously dont understand my point^.......Im done arguing with you. I dont see how anyone would complain to Riot with what I just mentioned above. ( It doesnt punish anyone but gives reward for doing your best ).

I see your point, you are saying good KDA should mean you get more or less LP depending on how well you did or didn't do. I'm SAYING, people will drag out games and NOT try and win by getting objectives because they would rather continue to farm for more cs, continue to stall out the game to get more kills, actively do everything in their power to not group as five, do everything in their power to get kills, do everything in their power to NOT go for what is truly important, objectives because they know that getting more points by continuing to kill the enemy will seem more important then actually going for the objective that wins the game.

NøÐe1 votes

{quoted}

And you aren't understanding what I'm saying.

I see your point, you are saying good KDA should mean you get more or less LP depending on how well you did or didn't do. I'm SAYING, people will drag out games and NOT try and win by getting objectives because they would rather continue to farm for more cs, continue to stall out the game to get more kills, actively do everything in their power to not group as five, do everything in their power to get kills, do everything in their power to NOT go for what is truly important, objectives because they know that getting more points by continuing to kill the enemy will seem more important then actually going for the objective that wins the game.

And that is why I said you lose less LP for losing a game that you did best on with those kinds of people.......YOU......DONT.......GET........PUNISHED......HARD.....FOR...... DOING...... YOUR.........BEST......EVEN.......IF........YOU..........LOST......TO.......TROLLS.....OR.......PEOPLE......WHO.......DONT......WANT......TO......LITSEN......OR........WIN!

WHOPS I FORGOT.......NA HAS 90% TROLLS....What you just said happens every game right? gotcha....im done arguing....pls dont reply back

SirCyrel1 votes

{quoted} Its just like saying "I got a pentakill......I should lose this game and give up"

SirCyrel1 votes

Love that comment!

SirCyrel1 votes

I'm not saying it should be the only factor, But perhaps hold some weight in the outcome of your LP points gained or loss.

Jamaree1 votes

Then what about supports?

SirCyrel1 votes

What about them? I primary support, I manage kills, and plenty of assists. No one said the kills had to weigh more than assists. ;) In fact if they were the same weight would that eliminate the concern of players no longer playing as a team?

Jamaree1 votes

{quoted}

What about them? I primary support, I manage kills, and plenty of assists. No one said the kills had to weigh more than assists. ;) In fact if they were the same weight would that eliminate the concern of players no longer playing as a team?

I'm saying that if kills and assist factored in, people will drag out games even longer instead of just ending them.

SirCyrel1 votes

What if it was something only applied in the event of a loss. You now get graded on how you played S+ A, B, C Etc. What if that was used (With a little weight) to help determine how much LP you lose. Something to the effect of: Game loss = -17 LP (just example, obviously this number we know changes based on their current formula) S = +4 LP A = +3 LP B = +2 LP C = +1 LP D = 0 LP

Something to help off set a player who played more skillfully from loosing so much vice those that made poor choices. Thought?

Celosar2 votes

One of the first things I read about competitive LoL was that when you play ranked you should just straight up plan on losing about 40% of your games to a troll or AFK. The next ~40% you'll be on the other end of that. The result is that your personal performance only matters in about 20% of your games.

It was very disheartening.

That being said, I was watching NB3 stream way back and some guy asked him whether having a positive KDA was important. He then linked us viewers to a site that showed player KDA to win %. The players with a higher KDA won more games.

Take that for what it's worth. I personally get kinda pissed when I go like 20-5-12 and we lose because last pick jungle thought raka would be a good pick because, "global heal from the jungle guys! It's like a global gank saver!"

SirCyrel1 votes

I am curious to know your thoughts on some of these other posts here.

JRobin312 votes

Wow, quoting Lyte from a year ago... not saying it's not still true... just saying your reference may be a little out of date and disregards recent changes in the system.

The question is bouncing around about players being focused more on their KDA, then winning the game. Of course, if you are clearly winning, then it doesn't matter: you can kill more players, hold out for pentas if you want, suicide to the enemy fountain, or place needless wards - none of which is really reflective of your skill with the champion you are playing. And of course if you are clearly losing, then it doesn't matter: you can afk, leave the base to push objectives that don't matter while your Nexus falls, or place needless wards - none of which are reflective of skill with the champion you are playing.

No measure will tell the whole story. Your support's item 2049 may never be fully appreciated. But at least measure by win/lose places the focus of the game where it should be: on winning. Measure by KDA doesn't place the focus on winning the game. Instead winning the game becomes something you can do while you improve your KDA.

You might ask who would improve their KDA instead of winning? But it's not a question of if players will abuse the system, it is a question of when.

Winning games is the best measure of skill and always has been. It would be unthinkable to award the World's Trophy to the team with the highest average KDA rather than the team that actually took down the nexi.

Jamaree1 votes

THANK YOU, this, this exactly.

SirCyrel1 votes

Yes, I made the quote as that is what was presented to me in the email just last week to address my question about what could be done about AFK games and how common they are in ranked. If there was more up to date information i sure hope it would have been provided to me vice that article.

JRobin312 votes

{quoted}

Yes, I made the quote as that is what was presented to me in the email just last week to address my question about what could be done about AFK games and how common they are in ranked. If there was more up to date information i sure hope it would have been provided to me vice that article.

nice, maybe make that clear in your OP

SirCyrel1 votes

I see this has sparked a little debate as it should. Allow me to Clarify, K/D/A Should NOT be the sole factor in determining ones LP gain or Loss Or their Rank. I do stand by it having the potential to better represent the players skill. Not that this is the way riot would ever take it. If they did though, I must say they are quite intelligent bunch of people and I am sure it would not hold a ridiculous amount of weight. Perhaps even only in games lost it could factor in to help reduce LP loss. In fact if that were the case players would try to play better but have no reason to outplay there team as they still need the win.

These are just ideas to see what people think.

JRobin311 votes

{quoted}

... I do stand by it [KDA] having the potential to better represent the players skill. ...

I stand by KDA as not having the potential to better represent the player's skill.

To me, it would be like trying to saying First Blood was a better measure of player skill. After the game, the player complains and says, "But look, I got first blood. Clearly, I'm more skilled than my teammates even though we lost the game."

Or it would be like saying CS was a better measure of skill. "See, I farmed more CS than anyone else on my team. Clearly I'm more skilled."

Or it would be like saying last hits on objectives other than the Nexus was a better measure of skill. "See, I got the last hit on all the objectives we took. Therefore, I'm more skilled than my teammates."

Or maybe that the player that gets the last hit on the Nexus is more skilled. "Hey guys, I know we all win, but since I got the last hit on the Nexus.... I'm clearly better than all of you."

Can you see the QQ threads of the future? "My team would've lost without me. The only reason I died was I had to tank the entire enemy team all game. I went 2/8/15, but our Talon went 7/3/3 and gets bonus ranking because of his KDA. RITO PLZ."

The problem is this: Player skill can cause higher KDA Higher KDA can cause player skill.

SirCyrel1 votes

FYI I do hope I do not sound rude Just friendly debate.

I do not believe It is like saying any of those things. And honestly if you read the things you put those are a bit ridiculous. Last hitting a nexus or objectives.... likely a lot easier than killing an enemy champ, not even comparable. True you might get people who actually say that but i don't think anyone would take them seriously.

Being realistic we do know it takes skill to play as a team, It takes skill to play your role, to assist your team in getting kills and in scoring kills yourself. Would you agree this is all true?

That is what i believe and that is why i believe it should all be a factor in some form or fashion, Not just the win or Loss. As for how that is implemented if ever, That would be up to Riot.

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