Why am i getting unranked/bronze players in my gold promos?

Rezki·Nov 19, 2019·24 votes·15,619 views

Literally got 2 unranked players within 3 games. I don't understand how this is okay? How the hell am i supposed to get to gold if I'm literally getting garbage as teammates? I know this is just kind of a rant, but this definitely isn't okay. I had two games where this happened, but thankfully, my duo managed to dodge the last one. As you can see in the picture, the Kai'sa isn't even ranked, like what? (I'm sorry if this is the wrong board, first time doing this, and I just thought i had to post about this)

91 Comments

CyceraNov 19, 201922 votes

This is why I stopped playing ranked! I am part of those unranked/bronze players that get paired up with a bunch of gold and plat people and I have no idea why. It sucks. The only response I could muster to the flame was "bro, I have no idea why I'm here, I'm Bronze II and Riot has no business putting me here"

I'm sorry for both sides, really. It's not a fair situation at all.

Jennifer17Nov 20, 20191 votes

im curious, did you try to make a new account? i wonder what your mmr result would be on another acc

CyceraNov 20, 20191 votes

{quoted}

im curious, did you try to make a new account? i wonder what your mmr result would be on another acc

I have no idea. I have had the same account for almost 3 years now and never played ranked until this season. Once I finished my placements, I was done. Every single game the people I was paired with and against climbed higher and higher in rank and I couldn't take it anymore. Not only was it insanely challenging to play against, but it was insanely challenging to deal with it in chat too.

Making a new account is a good idea. If I care about ranked again, I'll try that for sure.

Jennifer17Nov 20, 20191 votes

i know that (for some reason) your first 10 ranked games tend to match you with higher people and then it balances, but not in such massive differences. thats just bs. oh well.

CyceraNov 20, 20191 votes

{quoted}

i know that (for some reason) your first 10 ranked games tend to match you with higher people and then it balances, but not in such massive differences. thats just bs. oh well.

Yeah, I've been told that too, but then when I mention it ended up being gold/plat I was matched with and against people were like wtf

Other Bronze? Of course. Silver? Sure. Gold? Pushing it, but I guess a gold IV or sometimes III makes sense. Gold I, II, and low plat? Uhhh.....Riot ur high

Devilreaper XIIINov 21, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, I've been told that too, but then when I mention it ended up being gold/plat I was matched with and against people were like wtf

Other Bronze? Of course. Silver? Sure. Gold? Pushing it, but I guess a gold IV or sometimes III makes sense. Gold I, II, and low plat? Uhhh.....Riot ur high

they're doing this on purpose, for the 50% winrate, they could easily take average stats of each tier and compare gameplay to it to place someone.

CyceraNov 21, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2tZaTY50,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-21T10:53:05.811+0000)

they're doing this on purpose, for the 50% winrate, they could easily take average stats of each tier and compare gameplay to it to place someone.

I mean, at least now I know it wasn't an accident. Still, I feel like three leagues ahead of me is a little much. I would cap it off at two leagues ahead of me if I was really doing that good (I lost most of my placements, so I wasn't doing great)

Devilreaper XIIINov 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I mean, at least now I know it wasn't an accident. Still, I feel like three leagues ahead of me is a little much. I would cap it off at two leagues ahead of me if I was really doing that good (I lost most of my placements, so I wasn't doing great)

riots MMR system is contradictory, according to riot the system tries to even out total number of MMR, but if you are on a win or lose streak the system places you higher or lower, which means it litterally causes an unbalance...... so in the end its a loop, the system causes the win or lose streak and creates unbalance which causes a win or lose streak which causes etc.... its a domino effect that is completely unnecessary, they could just keep you in the correct tier and let a promo decide whether you should be higher or not, the system also places unranked players too high often since they might be on a winstreak, last time i had a full gold IV team with 1 unranked, we were up against a full silver 2-3 team with 1 gold IV...... i still don't get how we matched total MMR O.o, there are blocks that prevent lower or higher tier to enter your match unless there's a lack of players on, so its still possible but it should be rare according to riot, thruth is though that it just happens way too often .-.

CyceraNov 23, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2tZaTY50,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-22T10:20:04.358+0000)

riots MMR system is contradictory, according to riot the system tries to even out total number of MMR, but if you are on a win or lose streak the system places you higher or lower, which means it litterally causes an unbalance...... so in the end its a loop, the system causes the win or lose streak and creates unbalance which causes a win or lose streak which causes etc.... its a domino effect that is completely unnecessary, they could just keep you in the correct tier and let a promo decide whether you should be higher or not, the system also places unranked players too high often since they might be on a winstreak, last time i had a full gold IV team with 1 unranked, we were up against a full silver 2-3 team with 1 gold IV...... i still don't get how we matched total MMR O.o, there are blocks that prevent lower or higher tier to enter your match unless there's a lack of players on, so its still possible but it should be rare according to riot, thruth is though that it just happens way too often .-.

Yeah riots mmr system is crap i can't stand it

SgtAwesomenessNov 19, 201918 votes

its to make sure you lose

Farih DanhNov 20, 20192 votes

{quoted}

its to make sure you lose

pls be a comedian

Devilreaper XIIINov 19, 201912 votes

riot wants everyone to be around 50% winrate is why.... [slayer-pantheon-rainbows]

KonsequenceNov 19, 20192 votes

then how come im at 60 at 100 games :O

KnightLakegaNov 19, 20194 votes

{quoted}

then how come im at 60 at 100 games :O

You're an exception, and better than alot of players. It's why pro's can make a new account and climb so steadily for awhile (It isn't until they get 1-2 under their own rank that they start to struggle with the forced 50% W/R crap).

Better you are, the more trash you can carry, but that doesnt' mean you aren't getting screwed still.

DeathBurstNov 19, 20195 votes

Riot doesn't FORCE 50% winrate. They want to give fair matches to everyone, and when all your matches are fair, having a 50% winrate is a natural consequence. But it's not the goal, it's a side effect.

CHROMEPIPENov 19, 20196 votes

using level 30s to give gold players a free win does force a 50% winrate because it happens so fucking much

CHROMEPIPENov 19, 20192 votes

you won't be at 60 in 200 games and won't even be at 55 in 300 games

DeathBurstNov 19, 20193 votes

They don't WANT to. They want to give fair matches to everyone, and when all your matches are fair, having a 50% winrate is a natural consequence. But it's not the goal, it's a side effect.

Devilreaper XIIINov 20, 20191 votes

{quoted}

They don't WANT to. They want to give fair matches to everyone, and when all your matches are fair, having a 50% winrate is a natural consequence. But it's not the goal, it's a side effect.

hahahahaha no....., they want to prevent too many players climbing to challenger, preferably keeping everyone around 50% win rate, ensures higher profits, and less leeching players (challengers in pro play).

(edit) in of my most recent matches i had a full gold IV tier team with 1 unranked player in there that went afk... how is that fair? we still managed to win because one of their opponents went afk, and the player that went afk on our side suddenly came back -.-, matchmaking is so rigged, especially during promos.

DeathBurstNov 20, 20191 votes

By definition Challenger is the top 200 or whatever player. You don't need to rig people promos for that at all. People would stack up in Masters 0 LP, even if it worked as you think it does.

But no, it just doesn't work how you think. Why would people necessarily climb without rigged matches? At some point you get matched with people just as good as you are, and you stop climbing. MMR isn't XP, you don't always get more the more you play. So at some point, your MMR in the system and your actual skills are equal, and then you can't go higher. Even in a perfect system not rigged at all.

(edit) in of my most recent matches i had a full gold IV tier team with 1 unranked player in there that went afk... how is that fair? we still managed to win because ...

First off, the system isn't perfect, and sometimes (rarely, but sometimes) errors happen. Good faith errors, not rigged matches.
Second, AFK are a totally different discussions. Yeah, AFK suck hard. But the system can't predict that. Getting an AFK is a terrible moment, but it doesn't prove the system is rigged.
Third, this Jhin was matched with you because that's actually his proper level. The fact that he's "unranked" doesn't mean he's a noob. Everyone is unranked before finishing their placement series. I will be unranked too when the next season start, and so will you. Just have a look at his history, and ALL his games have been in Gold4 MMR.

So yeah, that was a fair match-making.

Devilreaper XIIINov 21, 20191 votes

{quoted}

By definition Challenger is the top 200 or whatever player. You don't need to rig people promos for that at all. People would stack up in Masters 0 LP, even if it worked as you think it does.

But no, it just doesn't work how you think. Why would people necessarily climb without rigged matches? At some point you get matched with people just as good as you are, and you stop climbing. MMR isn't XP, you don't always get more the more you play. So at some point, your MMR in the system and your actual skills are equal, and then you can't go higher. Even in a perfect system not rigged at all. how is that fair? we still managed to win because ...

First off, the system isn't perfect, and sometimes (rarely, but sometimes) errors happen. Good faith errors, not rigged matches.

Second, AFK are a totally different discussions. Yeah, AFK suck hard. But the system can't predict that. Getting an AFK is a terrible moment, but it doesn't prove the system is rigged.

Third, this Jhin was matched with you because that's actually his proper level. The fact that he's "unranked" doesn't mean he's a noob. Everyone is unranked before finishing their placement series. I will be unranked too when the next season start, and so will you. Just have a look at his history, and ALL his games have been in Gold4 MMR.

So yeah, that was a fair match-making.

lol i play since beta, and i can tell you when they implemented ranked, that is not how it worked, and it still isn't how it works, MMR is counted to a total number, so both team's MMR are equal, in order to even start a match, you can't tell me 4 silver 1-2 and 1 gold IV players have the approximate same mmr as 4 gold iv and 1 unranked (mmr gold iv) players, an unranked person shouldn't even have MMR yet, its easy to prevent unranked players from entering a ranked match with ranked players that aren't unranked, so yeah riot riggs the whole matchmaking, if this would happen like once or twice in like 50 matches i would agree with you, but this happens about 5 to 6 times out of 10 matches in the least, and especially in promos, the system should alter, and mmr should be determined from normal games, so when players want to enter ranked they have their rank based on how they perform in normal games, to prevent such rigged matchmaking, ofcourse there are also ranked players that take unranked players with them in a premade team to rigg the matchmaking, since matchmaking is based on total MMR level, and unraked players MMr is actually taken from normal games rather than getting a rank based on normal games before entering ranked, is why its rigged, and there are smurfs that affect it as well, aka matchmaking is a total mess and rigged as hell, and no that match with jhin was not fair, he died once by his own fault and left...... once he saw how hard we were coming back, he decided to come back and profit, jhin was added to match the total MMR of the opponents which had premade silvers in them, the only one that was gold IV was the zilean...... and fyi jhin is silver 3 now, so in what possible way was that match fair? it was rigged in our favor.....

https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752954-Matchmaking-Guide riot contradicts themselves so hard in their explanation, so they strive for a fair match making where each team has 50% win and lose rate give or take, but scroll down and they state that the system places players that win or lose alot higher or lower than their MMR..... O___O which makes no sense, they don't go out of their way to say they actually do rigg matches, they just pretend like its normal to do so -.-

DeathBurstNov 21, 20191 votes

you can't tell me 4 silver 1-2 and 1 gold IV players have the approximate same mmr as 4 gold iv and 1 unranked (mmr gold iv) players

Yeah, I can tell that. I can go even further and tell you that, excluding potential duos in that game, everyone had roughly the same MMR. It's not just equal between the two teams, it's equal between all the players involved (again, excluding duos). A Silver2 with a good winrate and a winning streak can totally have the same MMR as a Gold4.

an unranked person shouldn't even have MMR yet

They have to start somewhere. You need to start playing Ranked to get a rank/MMR. That's... not a hard concept. When someone goes into the Ranked queue for the first time, they need to be put somewhere. There's no way around it.

its easy to prevent unranked players from entering a ranked match with ranked players that aren't unranked

Huh, no it's not! Because the pool of players entering the Ranked queue which are still unranked is super tiny, especially so late in the season. Do you really expect this Jhin to go into a match with 9 other unranked players? And to have to wait 2 hours in queue for that?

this happens about 5 to 6 times out of 10 matches in the least

Of course not. Check your own history, take a paper, and actually count it down. I checked your history, and in your last 20 games, it happened 3 times. That's a quarter of what you claim.

and there are smurfs that affect it as well, aka matchmaking is a total mess and rigged as hell

Being "a mess", I could actually agree with you there. Yeah, smurfs and duos are a pain in the ass, and they make for bad matchmaking. But that's not Riot's forcing you to lose games! The system is not "rigged", that's downright ridiculous. Being bad and ineffective is not the same thing as being purposefully malicious....

he died once by his own fault and left...... once he saw how hard we were coming back, he decided to come back and profit

And how in hell is that the fault of the matchmaking? You think the matchmaking predicted that Jhin would AFK? For real...

jhin was added to match the total MMR of the opponents

Again, the system does not try to match the MMR of the two teams as a whole. It tries to match the MMR of every single player individually. Or Duos, but still, not the team as a whole. Duos get a bonus to compensate the fact that they have better coordination, so this Silver Duo had a Silver1/Gold4 MMR. Just like everyone else in that game.

and fyi jhin is silver 3 now,

Rank and MMR is not the same thing. His MMR is equivalent to Silver1/Gold4. Once again, check his history: ALL his games are played with other Gold4 players. But he just finished his placement series, so his Rank is lower than his MMR. That's official, you even get a pop-up when the season start and everything, warning you that you should expect your placement series to put you lowers than the Rank you actually deserve (a.k.a your MMR).

riot contradicts themselves so hard in their explanation, so they strive for a fair match making where each team has 50% win and lose rate give or take, but scroll down and they state that the system places players that win or lose alot higher or lower than their MMR

Are you referring to that part? "You’re winning a lot, and the matchmaker is placing you against stronger opponents." Because this is directly in the paragraph about "Here are a few familiar situations to illustrate the difference between your League [a.k.a your Rank] and your MMR".

Players who win or lose a lot are placed higher or lower than their Rank (like this Jhin). But they are placed at their MMR, precisely because Riot wants to give fair matches. Everyone is always matched at their MMR. That's why it exists, that's its goal, that's what it's for.

MMR and Rank are not the same.

Which is why Riot should just show us both, that would erase all this confusion like in your situation. They don't, and I disagree with this decision. But they still don't rig matches, that's ridiculous.

Devilreaper XIIINov 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, I can tell that. I can go even further and tell you that, excluding potential duos in that game, everyone had roughly the same MMR. It's not just equal between the two teams, it's equal between all the players involved (again, excluding duos). A Silver2 with a good winrate and a winning streak can totally have the same MMR as a Gold4.

no, your MR determines your position in tier.... the only way to get silver players in a gold matchup is if there are few players online, if a gold player or a silver player start a premade, or riot trolling hard to keep you around 50% winrate.....

just an example but here goes : lets say gold IV players have 200 MMR and silver I players 190 MMR lets say you go into solo Q as gold IV, which means you should get matches with silver I/gold IV players since it shouldn't deviate too much, but solo duo is solo DUO, so if a gold IV player decided to queue with a silver V player with 20 MMR, the MMR rating will lower, which means the system needs to compensate and get an similar MMR rating for both teams lets say 1 team consists of gold IV players which means 200 times 5 = 1000 MMR, 200 times 4 + 38 = 838, which is not enough, so either the team with the silver player should get a teammate with higher MMR, or the gold IV team gets one with as low an MMR to match total MMR, this however isn't always happening, and even if its happening still causes unbalance.

They have to start somewhere. You need to start playing Ranked to get a rank/MMR. That's... not a hard concept. When someone goes into the Ranked queue for the first time, they need to be put somewhere. There's no way around it.

they could take MMR from a normal game and place them according to normal game tier in a ranked tier, if they lose they lose if they win they win, at least they don't screw up games whilst being placed WAY too high.....

Huh, no it's not! Because the pool of players entering the Ranked queue which are still unranked is super tiny, especially so late in the season. Do you really expect this Jhin to go into a match with 9 other unranked players? And to have to wait 2 hours in queue for that?

lel i didn't say that, that would be insane [sg-kiko] , no i meant that they could be given a rank prior to playing ranked based on their MMR in normal games for example, or riot needs to come up with a trial including bots to test the player in non ranked matchups, and compare their gameplay with all tiers, this isn't that hard :P.

Of course not. Check your own history, take a paper, and actually count it down. I checked your history, and in your last 20 games, it happened 3 times. That's a quarter of what you claim.

looking back, i see 3 unranked including that jhin where it says silver 3, and 2 bronze out of ten games, and than its possible that there are more players like jhin that were tiered after said match, so it shows a rank rather than unranked.... so im spot on....

Being "a mess", I could actually agree with you there. Yeah, smurfs and duos are a pain in the ass, and they make for bad matchmaking. But that's not Riot's forcing you to lose games! The system is not "rigged", that's downright ridiculous. Being bad and ineffective is not the same thing as being purposefully malicious....

oh i know but when smurfs and premades aren't the factor, and you get unranked players or a full team of bronze when you are silver 1 up against a full team of silver it sure as hell is rigged .o.

And how in hell is that the fault of the matchmaking? You think the matchmaking predicted that Jhin would AFK? For real...

no offense but he was unranked..... there was no telling where he would be placed in, he could've been placed in iron or bronze O.o, the matchmaking stretches and places players with a winstreak higher than they should be or with a lose streak lower than they should be, no it couldn't know he would go afk, but its obvious an unranked player might not be as competitive, they don't need to hold their current rank, since they have none..... meaning such a player behaviour is unpredictable....

Again, the system does not try to match the MMR of the two teams as a whole. It tries to match the MMR of every single player individually. Or Duos, but still, not the team as a whole. Duos get a bonus to compensate the fact that they have better coordination, so this Silver Duo had a Silver1/Gold4 MMR. Just like everyone else in that game.

no.... the matchmaking system creates a team with similar MMR as WHOLE, they do this basing off individual MMR, but in the end the MMR total is what sets the match.

Rank and MMR is not the same thing. His MMR is equivalent to Silver1/Gold4. Once again, check his history: ALL his games are played with other Gold4 players. But he just finished his placement series, so his Rank is lower than his MMR. That's official, you even get a pop-up when the season start and everything, warning you that you should expect your placement series to put you lowers than the Rank you actually deserve (a.k.a your MMR).

that still doesn't mean he should be playing with tiered players..... riot could easily fix that, and jhin wasn't even the biggest problem, an ENTIRE silver team opposing us with one gold IV player was, that was a clear stomp match from our side....

Are you referring to that part? "You’re winning a lot, and the matchmaker is placing you against stronger opponents." Because this is directly in the paragraph about "Here are a few familiar situations to illustrate the difference between your League [a.k.a your Rank] and your MMR".

Players who win or lose a lot are placed higher or lower than their Rank (like this Jhin). But they are placed at their MMR, precisely because Riot wants to give fair matches. Everyone is always matched at their MMR. That's why it exists, that's its goal, that's what it's for.

MMR and Rank are not the same.

Which is why Riot should just show us both, that would erase all this confusion like in your situation. They don't, and I disagree with this decision. But they still don't rig matches, that's ridiculous.

actually your MMR is the same as your rank.... MMR stands for MATCH MAKING RATING, it would be ridiculous to be in tier platinum I and be faced off against an iron V team..... MMR matches your rank, the higher you are the more restricted queueing and matchmaking will be, from iron to gold you can be matched with 1 rank lower and 1 rank up, from platinum plus its even more restricted https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/204010760-Ranked-Play-FAQ

in practise i've seen platinum players in my silver games .o. the matchmaking is certainly rigged beyond a doubt, and i'm not the only one saying this, why do you think riot added the part that says : "While we know some matches may feel like stomps, we do try to make sure all teams have a 50 +/-1% chance of victory" https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752954-Matchmaking-Guide damage control and denial of a rigged matchmaking right there, ''trying to'' lel more like we can't be bothered to listen to players feedback about matchmaking because : 1 : lazy and or proud of it 2 : rigged matchmaking happening to keep everyone at 50% W/L, rate like they been saying over and over.

there simply is no other explanation.

DeathBurstNov 22, 20191 votes

No they are not the same. They usually remain close, indeed, because it would be stupid to have an Iron-like MMR and a Plat Rank, but they are not the same. Your own link says it explicitly:

While MMR is the number we use to determine your opponents, your personal progress is represented by the Leagues system. Here are a few familiar situations to illustrate the difference between your League and your MMR

There is a difference between the two, because the two are not the same. There are two different things.

All the rest of our disagreements come from that fundamental point, so I won't reply in detail to every line, but really, they are NOT the same thing.

A few stray remarks:

they could take MMR from a normal game and place them according to normal game tier in a ranked tier, if they lose they lose if they win they win, at least they don't screw up games whilst being placed WAY too high.....

That's more or less what they do. Gold4 is just not that high. It's 50% of the playerbase, this year.

looking back, i see 3 unranked including that jhin where it says silver 3, and 2 bronze out of ten games

I don't know where you're looking, but at this link https://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=Devilreaper%20XIII I see 3 unranked, including that Jhin that I still see unranked, and 0 Bronze in your last 10 games. CTRL+F "Bronz", I have 0 result.

no.... the matchmaking system creates a team with similar MMR as WHOLE, they do this basing off individual MMR, but in the end the MMR total is what sets the match.

Of course, if the individuals are all the same, the totals are also equal. But having all individuals the same is a stronger constraint, and that's what's happening (excluding Duos). Again, from your OWN link: "it will look for other players whose numbers are close to yours".

an ENTIRE silver team opposing us with one gold IV player was, that was a clear stomp match from our side....

An "entire team of Silvers" (two Silver1 and a Silver2) with less than 50 games each who are still climbing, against a team of hardstuck Gold4 with 400 games each. Yeah, everyone had the same MMR. Not the same Rank, but the same MMR, because, once again: they are not the same thing.

rigged beyond a doubt [...] there simply is no other explanation.

Yeah, there IS another explanation. MMR and Rank are not the same. It's a much simpler and believable explanation than Riot putting in place some elaborate scheme to rig certain matches.

Devilreaper XIIINov 23, 20191 votes

{quoted}

No they are not the same. They usually remain close, indeed, because it would be stupid to have an Iron-like MMR and a Plat Rank, but they are not the same. Your own link says it explicitly:

There is a difference between the two, because the two are not the same. There are two different things.

All the rest of our disagreements come from that fundamental point, so I won't reply in detail to every line, but really, they are NOT the same thing.

1 you start with a set number of MMR 2 after several matches the game ranks you 3 your MMR level matches the rank 4 you win or lose matches and your MMR level drops or raises 5 this ensures your MMR is ALWAYS within the correct tier 6 MMR = RANK, this is why iron can't join plat, the matchmaking system would have to match total number of MMR, so odd teams shouldn't exist period.

A few stray remarks:

That's more or less what they do. Gold4 is just not that high. It's 50% of the playerbase, this year.

its not, they just drop you in randomly for testing and than rank you.

I don't know where you're looking, but at this link https://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=Devilreaper%20XIII I see 3 unranked, including that Jhin that I still see unranked, and 0 Bronze in your last 10 games. CTRL+F "Bronz", I have 0 result.

not on my team, against me.

Of course, if the individuals are all the same, the totals are also equal. But having all individuals the same is a stronger constraint, and that's what's happening (excluding Duos). Again, from your OWN link: "it will look for other players whose numbers are close to yours".

how is bronze MMR close to gold MMR? we are talking 2 tiers back O.o

An "entire team of Silvers" (two Silver1 and a Silver2) with less than 50 games each who are still climbing, against a team of hardstuck Gold4 with 400 games each. Yeah, everyone had the same MMR. Not the same Rank, but the same MMR, because, once again: they are not the same thing. there simply is no other explanation.

see above i explained MMR, it shouldn't have happened.

Yeah, there IS another explanation. MMR and Rank are not the same. It's a much simpler and believable explanation than Riot putting in place some elaborate scheme to rig certain matches.

nope lol, riot wants to keep players around 50% winrate, keeping them longer in a tier so they end up playing more and longer, whilst preventing many players from hitting challenger, they don't want too many teams in pro play, the costs would exceed the profit that way, which is also why they added tiers.

DeathBurstNov 25, 20191 votes

3 your MMR level matches the rank 4 you win or lose matches and your MMR level drops or raises 5 this ensures your MMR is ALWAYS within the correct tier

Except there are promo series, and demotion shields, and a lot of other subtleties like that that can prevent your Rank from following while your MMR is still moving in the background. Similarly, if you have a winrate very far from 50%, your MMR will climb faster than your Rank, and if you are, say, Silver2 with 65% winrate, you will already be matched in Gold3 games (meaning against AND ALSO WITH other Gold3 players) or something like that.

And last but not least, Riot tells you explicitly when you finish your placement series that your Rank is set lower than your MMR to force you to play over the season and not just do your 10 placement games and never touch the game again for a year.

THAT's how they force you to play. Not by forcing you to a 50% winrate with rigged matches. Just by adding on purpose a difference between your MMR and your Rank, and forcing you to grind to get your Rank back in sync.

not on my team, against me.

CTRL+F doesn't choose in which team it finds the word. There isn't a single Bronze player in any of the last 10 games on the page I linked. I don't know where you are checking, but it doesn't appear on my side....

how is bronze MMR close to gold MMR?

It isn't. And again: I can't see a single Bronze.

But seriously. Forget the real system for a couple minutes. Imagine a perfect, ideal system, who can predict everything, who can guess who will AFK and all. Really, a perfect system. And in this perfect system, which always gives fair games to everyone, and never rigs anything in anyway, what will everyone's winrate be?

graindesableNov 25, 20191 votes

One way to see the fact that MMR isn't the same as Rank is the LP you gain/lose at the end of the games. Speaking from experience, i have played a bit in the early season after a long League break, and was placed in Bronze. And I more or less didn't play Ranked until about a month ago, because I wanted that free skin. And when I started back, after playing a lot in Normal with Gold/Plat friends, against Silver to Plat players, My level was likely around high Silver/Low Gold. So when I got back to Ranked, pretty early I got queued against low Gold players, even while being high Bronze myself. And wins would get me around 34 LP, with loses costing me 11 LP, because I had a MMR around low Gold, and a Rank at Bronze. So the game made me climb fast ... provided I was willing to play enough games (and when I say climb fast, i skipped promos to Silver, and got promoted directly from S4 to S2 without promos as well). And in the end, i got to Gold, with all my games in Bronze/Silver being played with and against S1 to G3-2 players, because that's what the game considered my level was (and since I got to Gold quite fast, I probably wasn't that bad in thoses games, and i carried a bunch of them as well, so it wasn't unfair to my teammates to be queued with me, I think). And quite naturally, the more I climbed, the fewer LP I would win (and the more LP I would lose when I lost games). But as long as your MMR is higher than your Rank, there should be a clear difference in LP between a win and a lose, which is to me the clearest actual proof (besides what they claim) that MMR is indeed different than Rank.

Hope my 2 cents are worth something ^^

Devilreaper XIIINov 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

One way to see the fact that MMR isn't the same as Rank is the LP you gain/lose at the end of the games. Speaking from experience, i have played a bit in the early season after a long League break, and was placed in Bronze. And I more or less didn't play Ranked until about a month ago, because I wanted that free skin. And when I started back, after playing a lot in Normal with Gold/Plat friends, against Silver to Plat players, My level was likely around high Silver/Low Gold. So when I got back to Ranked, pretty early I got queued against low Gold players, even while being high Bronze myself. And wins would get me around 34 LP, with loses costing me 11 LP, because I had a MMR around low Gold, and a Rank at Bronze. So the game made me climb fast ... provided I was willing to play enough games (and when I say climb fast, i skipped promos to Silver, and got promoted directly from S4 to S2 without promos as well). And in the end, i got to Gold, with all my games in Bronze/Silver being played with and against S1 to G3-2 players, because that's what the game considered my level was (and since I got to Gold quite fast, I probably wasn't that bad in thoses games, and i carried a bunch of them as well, so it wasn't unfair to my teammates to be queued with me, I think). And quite naturally, the more I climbed, the fewer LP I would win (and the more LP I would lose when I lost games). But as long as your MMR is higher than your Rank, there should be a clear difference in LP between a win and a lose, which is to me the clearest actual proof (besides what they claim) that MMR is indeed different than Rank.

Hope my 2 cents are worth something ^^

normal and ranked MMR are seperate, you gained alot of MMR due to winning against high ranked players, this only proves the system is skewed...., your rank will have to match your MMR at all times to ensure correct matchmaking.

graindesableNov 26, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2tZaTY50,comment-id=000600010000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-26T10:14:02.534+0000)

normal and ranked MMR are seperate, you gained alot of MMR due to winning against high ranked players, this only proves the system is skewed...., your rank will have to match your MMR at all times to ensure correct matchmaking.

The way I see it, i basically improved my level in Normals playing with and against stronger players (which didn't change my Ranked MMR). But playing Ranked again and winning easily made my Ranked MMR improve really fast, faster than any LP win could compensate for (and if you factor the fact that they say that after placements you get under-ranked, the difference was quite high indeed). I'm not sure that at that point queuing me with Bronzes when I am somewhat Gold level would be fun for anyone (I don't mind a stomp or two, but it would get me lazy quite fast ^^).

Besides, it makes sense to have a (more or less) slight difference between MMR and Rank. The goal for Riot is to balance their games with estimated level (admitedly at least). The way that they estimate a player's level is through MMR. And if they want people to play a lot, they can't just put people at their exact level directly, because then there would be almost no progression. So the solution is to put players at a lower Rank, and reward wins and loses based on the difference between MMR and Rank. If you admit that MMR and Rank are not correlated, there is no issue with having Rank difference in a game, and you just have to hope that the MMR estimation is somewhat accurate (which is all that matters).

Another way to see that MMR and LP/Rank are not directly linked is the fact that you can lose LP without losing MMR (by dodging games).

Devilreaper XIIINov 27, 20191 votes

{quoted}

The way I see it, i basically improved my level in Normals playing with and against stronger players (which didn't change my Ranked MMR). But playing Ranked again and winning easily made my Ranked MMR improve really fast, faster than any LP win could compensate for (and if you factor the fact that they say that after placements you get under-ranked, the difference was quite high indeed). I'm not sure that at that point queuing me with Bronzes when I am somewhat Gold level would be fun for anyone (I don't mind a stomp or two, but it would get me lazy quite fast ^^).

Besides, it makes sense to have a (more or less) slight difference between MMR and Rank. The goal for Riot is to balance their games with estimated level (admitedly at least). The way that they estimate a player's level is through MMR. And if they want people to play a lot, they can't just put people at their exact level directly, because then there would be almost no progression. So the solution is to put players at a lower Rank, and reward wins and loses based on the difference between MMR and Rank. If you admit that MMR and Rank are not correlated, there is no issue with having Rank difference in a game, and you just have to hope that the MMR estimation is somewhat accurate (which is all that matters).

Another way to see that MMR and LP/Rank are not directly linked is the fact that you can lose LP without losing MMR (by dodging games).

any loss lowers MMR...... a dodge is considered a loss, MMR stands for matchmaking rating, this determines the skill level of a player, and so does rank..... both terms are synomyn to one another, they are the same, the thing is though that rank isn't counted but MMR is, basically your MMR is translated to a rank, so that players know their skill level properly, there is NO difference.

graindesableNov 28, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2tZaTY50,comment-id=00060001000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-27T10:08:47.355+0000)

any loss lowers MMR...... a dodge is considered a loss,

On that, wiki disagrees (https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Queue_dodging#Ranked_solo_queue_game_penalties , "You will not lose MMR for queue dodging"), as well as every single youtuber/streamer/you name it at plat+ ELO who make "How to climb fast" content, who all say as well that dodging won't make your MMR decrease. Another proof that MMR and Rank are different is LP decay when you're Diamond+ : https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/League_system#League_Points_inactivity_decay Relevant sentences : "Falling at 0 LP due to decay will automatically demote the player. " -> It affects Rank "The LP decay does not affect MMR. " -> Yet it does not affect MMR

At that point, it seems that everyone disagrees with you on the fact that MMR is the same as Rank, and if the world disgrees with you, it's not always the world that's mistaken ;)

Devilreaper XIIINov 29, 20191 votes

{quoted}

On that, wiki disagrees (https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Queue_dodging#Ranked_solo_queue_game_penalties , "You will not lose MMR for queue dodging"), as well as every single youtuber/streamer/you name it at plat+ ELO who make "How to climb fast" content, who all say as well that dodging won't make your MMR decrease. Another proof that MMR and Rank are different is LP decay when you're Diamond+ : https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/League_system#League_Points_inactivity_decay Relevant sentences : "Falling at 0 LP due to decay will automatically demote the player. " -> It affects Rank "The LP decay does not affect MMR. " -> Yet it does not affect MMR

try dodging whilst in promos, you will lose MMR because you LOSE a game, so yeah dodging makes you lose MMR, where did riot state dodging doesn't make you lose MMR? riot said win or lose increases or decreases your MMR, and a dodge is considered a loss...., rank = MMR, meaning it would be outrageous to be platinum and have a MATCHMAKING RATING for bronze O.o and vice versa, so its LOGICAL that rank and MMR are related..... or MM would be an even bigger mess .-. and if rank does not affect MMR, than i guess it won't matter if you are platinum or diamond or master or challenger from that point on..... i'm just saying.... you are being illogical, you litteraly say that a platinum can have the MMR of a challenger without being challenger [zombie-brand-facepalm] no offense but the ENTIRE MMS is based on MMR not rank, your MMR is translated to a RANK get it?

At that point, it seems that everyone disagrees with you on the fact that MMR is the same as Rank, and if the world disgrees with you, it's not always the world that's mistaken ;)

everyone thought the world was flat, only one man knew the truth, more often than not a single person is right, rather than everyone, so yeah its often the world thats wrong.

DeathBurstNov 29, 20191 votes

everyone thought the world was flat, only one man knew the truth, more often than not a single person is right, rather than everyone, so yeah its often the world thats wrong.

That's a myth. Most of the scientific community at the time knew the world was round. It was shown by the Greeks a thousand years before, and opposition to Colombus wasn't about Earth being round or flat, rather it was about its size and where humans lived.

See there, for instance: http://dhayton.haverford.edu/blog/2014/12/02/washington-irvings-columbus-and-the-flat-earth/

DeathBurstNov 29, 20191 votes

everyone thought the world was flat, only one man knew the truth, more often than not a single person is right, rather than everyone, so yeah its often the world thats wrong.

See there, for instance: http://dhayton.haverford.edu/blog/2014/12/02/washington-irvings-columbus-and-the-flat-earth/

Devilreaper XIIINov 30, 20191 votes

{quoted}

That's a myth. Most of the scientific community at the time knew the world was round. It was shown by the Greeks a thousand years before, and opposition to Colombus wasn't about Earth being round or flat, rather it was about its size and where humans lived.

See there, for instance: http://dhayton.haverford.edu/blog/2014/12/02/washington-irvings-columbus-and-the-flat-earth/

lol not a myth, most people certainly believed the earth was flat, most sailers did, the church did, the common folk did, aristocracy did, and the scolars in those days were divided, they claimed he would sail off the earth, but he didn't believe it, just because about 2000 years ago it was ''allegedly'' already proven the earth is round, doesn't mean everyone knew, or believed it in 1400, i said ''everyone thought the world was flat, only one man knew the truth'' there is NO evidence that the ancient greeks knew the earth was round..... especially since nasa believes this, and they consist of pretentious mentally ill pseudo scientists, it appears leftwingers praise this fraud aristotle that couldn't even tell woman and men have an equal amount of teeth [zombie-brand-facepalm], prior to him were many pilosophers but no scientists, its even possible the ancient egyptians already knew and had proven the earth was round, like i said there is no evidence that a round earth was proven in ancient greek, just mentionings of a ''spherical earth'', there is no evidence that people in 1400 actually believed in a round earth either, in contrary, there is evidence the church and pirates believed in a flat earth, not only that, its funny how you claim and others, that the majority of people in medieval times thought the earth was round, since the only ones that said so were the educated or scholars/philosophers, and i think we all know education was and still is for the rich......, heck and even so, its still unknown if all of them believed the earth is round, what you said and i quote ''Most of the scientific community'', thats not the whole world [sg-ahri-2] besides i was talking about juan sebastian elcano.

Devilreaper XIIINov 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

4 you win or lose matches and your MMR level drops or raises 5 this ensures your MMR is ALWAYS within the correct tier

Except there are promo series, and demotion shields, and a lot of other subtleties like that that can prevent your Rank from following while your MMR is still moving in the background. Similarly, if you have a winrate very far from 50%, your MMR will climb faster than your Rank, and if you are, say, Silver2 with 65% winrate, you will already be matched in Gold3 games (meaning against AND ALSO WITH other Gold3 players) or something like that.

And last but not least, Riot tells you explicitly when you finish your placement series that your Rank is set lower than your MMR to force you to play over the season and not just do your 10 placement games and never touch the game again for a year.

THAT's how they force you to play. Not by forcing you to a 50% winrate with rigged matches. Just by adding on purpose a difference between your MMR and your Rank, and forcing you to grind to get your Rank back in sync.

no, the only way to exceed your MMR in your current rank, is to be matched against higher ranked players and you winning, but then you'd most likely be skipping promos as well, MMR will always match rank in order to ensure proper matchmaking, and yet the matchmaking is bad ,o, , and the system actually places anyone on a winstreak higher than their rank btw as i stated before, this has nothing to do with your current MMR, your MMR will however be adjusted to your rank eventually, your MMR isnt lower than your rank ever.... where did riot state that? its simple, the system is designed to match MMR to rank so if you win too much the system places you too high to adjust winrate, and if you lose to much the system will place you lower to adjust winrate, its all to keep the 50% winrate and balance the MMR to the rank, its skewed :/

CTRL+F doesn't choose in which team it finds the word. There isn't a single Bronze player in any of the last 10 games on the page I linked. I don't know where you are checking, but it doesn't appear on my side....

lel i checked it turns out the site is unreliable, according to the site i went from gold IV to silver I to gold IV without losing O.o around 9-8 days ago today at 26 th of the 11th month, 8 days ago the varus and ezreal in the same team are stated as lvl 35 and lvl 37, but when you click on the varus and go to the match in his history you will see bronze, the ezreal one still says lvl 35 at that match O.o (i have a kdr of 1/5/14 as a zilean in that match.

It isn't. And again: I can't see a single Bronze.

But seriously. Forget the real system for a couple minutes. Imagine a perfect, ideal system, who can predict everything, who can guess who will AFK and all. Really, a perfect system. And in this perfect system, which always gives fair games to everyone, and never rigs anything in anyway, what will everyone's winrate be?

no one can tell.

DeathBurstNov 26, 20191 votes

the only way to exceed your MMR [...]

Yeah, OK, so you admit there ARE two numbers and they are not ALWAYS the same. Cool, that's progress.

MMR will always match rank in order to ensure proper matchmaking

That's circular reasoning. You say the matchmaking is bad because MMR always match Rank, but since Rank isn't always matched, it proves matchmaking is bad. Yeah, no it doesn't prove anything, because if you suppose your conclusion in the beginning, of course you conclude your conclusion in the end.

Also, you just said yourself two lines above that MMR and Rank are not always the same in extreme cases. Is it really so hard to imagine that between the obvious extreme cases even you agree exist and the situation where MMR and Rank are perfectly aligned, there is also a middle-ground, where there is some noticeable-but-not-extreme difference?

Alternative: MMR represents your true skill (as accurately as the system can measure it), and to "ensure proper matchmaking" you're always matched based on MMR, no matter what your Rank is.

your MMR isnt lower than your rank ever.... where did riot state that?

No, the opposite, your Rank is lower than your MMR. And, as I said two times already, in the pop-up when you finish your Placement Series. Are you even reading what I'm writing, or just disagreeing on principles?

That being said, if the difference can exist in one direction, it can obviously exist in the other one, even if it's rarer. Someone stuck at 0 LP in division 4 with a big losing streak will have a MMR below their Rank.

the system is designed to match MMR to rank

The system is designed to match MMR to Rank... in the end. AFTER someone has done all their grinding. THAT is how they force you to play. It starts different, and yes, it is indeed designed to match... but at the end. NOT instantly, magically, at all times. Only in the end. Which is why it's normal someone with <50 games (still climbing, the two do not match yet) is matched with people from a higher Rank who have >400 games (climb has ended, the two are actually in sync).

so if you win too much the system places you too high to adjust winrate

Alternative: if you win too much, the system realizes you're better than it thought and updates its knowledge about you. It was giving you too easy games, so now it gives you a bit harder games that should be more fair now.

It doesn't place you too high, it places you higher, hopefully at the right level now. And it's not "to adjust winrate", it's simply for your future games to be fair. It doesn't care about your winrate.

lel i checked it turns out the site is unreliable,

I mean, I don't particularly support OP.GG, which is why I asked you what site you use.

But anyway, I'm not sure why you were matched with those Bronze. Sometimes the system just does mistakes. Honest, good faith mistakes. Is it so hard to imagine that Riot Games, the company that made spaghetti code into a meme, can make a match-making based on fair principles, and just a little buggy at times?

Also, these guys were in a Duo, and as I already mentioned, Duo are matched higher, to compensate the fact they (should) have better coordination than random Solos. And they also have less than 20 games each. It's still a bit weird to have them matched with you, but it's not completely absurd.

no one can tell.

OF COURSE we can tell. If all your games are perfectly fair and you have a 50% chance to win each game individually, then you winrate overall will be 50%.

Imagine a coin and you're playing head or tail. It's a perfect coin, with 50% chance to land on head for each throw. What will be your overall proportion of heads? 50%. Just like your winrate in a perfect system.

Devilreaper XIIINov 27, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, OK, so you admit there ARE two numbers and they are not ALWAYS the same. Cool, that's progress.

no, what i meant is that the system matches you with players above your MMR, if you win that proves your MMR level isn't correct, which is why your MMR can skyrocket with such fixed matchmaking, there are no 2 numbers, you get win streaks and lose streaks, this proves the system is constantly trying to force a 50% winrate, you win too much you will lose alot after, you lose too much you will win alot after.

That's circular reasoning. You say the matchmaking is bad because MMR always match Rank, but since Rank isn't always matched, it proves matchmaking is bad. Yeah, no it doesn't prove anything, because if you suppose your conclusion in the beginning, of course you conclude your conclusion in the end.

Also, you just said yourself two lines above that MMR and Rank are not always the same in extreme cases. Is it really so hard to imagine that between the obvious extreme cases even you agree exist and the situation where MMR and Rank are perfectly aligned, there is also a middle-ground, where there is some noticeable-but-not-extreme difference?

Alternative: MMR represents your true skill (as accurately as the system can measure it), and to "ensure proper matchmaking" you're always matched based on MMR, no matter what your Rank is.

you seem a little confused O.o, 1 its not circular reasoning, your MMR matches your rank, with saying ''your MMR doesn't match OTHER players rank'' i mean't that the MMS places you against players that have a significantly higher MMR than you, therefore you will see platinums in your silver games, the MMS at all times is trying to force a similar total MMR level between both teams. 2 i never said such a thing. (see above) 3 MMR = ranks, its simple, lets say that to be in silver rank you need to have an MMR of 1300-1500 and to get to gold you need an MMR of 1600-1800, based on your MMR you are placed between V and I before entering a new tier, they will always match your MMR with your rank, or the MMS will be an even bigger mess.....

No, the opposite, your Rank is lower than your MMR. And, as I said two times already, in the pop-up when you finish your Placement Series. Are you even reading what I'm writing, or just disagreeing on principles?

they never said that either.... they said that you can be PLACED in a lower rank with a SOFT RESET, meaning your MMR level will be matched with your rank, you need to win some to get back to your said MMR/rank.

That being said, if the difference can exist in one direction, it can obviously exist in the other one, even if it's rarer. Someone stuck at 0 LP in division 4 with a big losing streak will have a MMR below their Rank.

actually the MMR is pretty wide untill you hit platinum, iron/bronze and gold can queue with 3 different tiers, silver can be queued with 4 different tiers, MMR can't drop below one's rank, there would be no point to it either untill platinum..... its what the protection is for, why else would you be protected from dropping a tier? since the MMS still believes your MMR is within said rank, so its basically a MMR drop protection, your LP gain/loss is directly linked to your MMR, this becomes more evident at master tier.

The system is designed to match MMR to Rank... in the end. AFTER someone has done all their grinding. THAT is how they force you to play. It starts different, and yes, it is indeed designed to match... but at the end. NOT instantly, magically, at all times. Only in the end. Which is why it's normal someone with <50 games (still climbing, the two do not match yet) is matched with people from a higher Rank who have >400 games (climb has ended, the two are actually in sync).

you don't need to grind, the system places you based on behaviour in a tier and division, that matches your MMR level, it never starts different, you need to play 10 matches to get an MMR/tier/division placement O.o, the MMS however can match you against players below or above your MMR, but that doesn't mean your MMR doesnt match your rank, you will still gradually rank up, this coincides with the gradual MMR raise.....

Alternative: if you win too much, the system realizes you're better than it thought and updates its knowledge about you. It was giving you too easy games, so now it gives you a bit harder games that should be more fair now.

It doesn't place you too high, it places you higher, hopefully at the right level now. And it's not "to adjust winrate", it's simply for your future games to be fair. It doesn't care about your winrate.

no, you need to learn to read, my god, you misunderstand so much .-., riot litterally said that the MMS can match you with higher or lower ranked players based on a win or lose streak, the MMS isn't matching you higher or lower to make a fair game, but to adjust your winrate, it isn't 100% accurate though, https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752954-Matchmaking-Guide , riot beats around the bush there -.-, they purposfully state ''opponnets losing'' rather than saying ''you can be matched against lower tier opponents based on a lose streak'' the MMS is designed to force a 50%+-1% winrate for both teams, so yeah its designed to keep players at 50% win rate simply to pretend like the MMS is working just fine -.-, just like the fascist feedback system, its all so dysfunctional.

I mean, I don't particularly support OP.GG, which is why I asked you what site you use.

But anyway, I'm not sure why you were matched with those Bronze. Sometimes the system just does mistakes. Honest, good faith mistakes. Is it so hard to imagine that Riot Games, the company that made spaghetti code into a meme, can make a match-making based on fair principles, and just a little buggy at times?

Also, these guys were in a Duo, and as I already mentioned, Duo are matched higher, to compensate the fact they (should) have better coordination than random Solos. And they also have less than 20 games each. It's still a bit weird to have them matched with you, but it's not completely absurd.

lol its completely absurd, it makes stomp games, i'll spell it out for you :

1 player has no MMR and has to play 10 matches 2 player wins X consecutive matches in X tiers iron, bronze and or silver 3 player gets matched with gold players 4 player loses X matches in gold 5 player gets placed in bronze.... O___O

how is that not absurd?

OF COURSE we can tell. If all your games are perfectly fair and you have a 50% chance to win each game individually, then you winrate overall will be 50%.

Imagine a coin and you're playing head or tail. It's a perfect coin, with 50% chance to land on head for each throw. What will be your overall proportion of heads? 50%. Just like your winrate in a perfect system.

wrong, even if you have a 50% winrate, if you win all matches your winrate is 100%, if you lose all matches your winrate is 0%, any between 0%-100% is possible even with a 50% win chance thats calculated by a system -.-, you can throw 100 coins, if all these coins hit tails you have a 0% winrate, even though you had a 50% winrate, the only way to get to a 50% winrate, is to win and lose a similar amount, this is rare actually so riot ''fixed'' it, with every match there is a winner and a loser, if you are on the winning or losing team all the time, it becomes pretty evident, you can't control the outcome with a fair match, but you can with unfair match making.

DeathBurstNov 28, 20191 votes

You have no bloody idea of how probabilities work.

No, you can't realistically throw a 100 balanced coins and get 100 heads. There is a one in 10^30 chances.

No, it's not "rare" to get a close to 50% overall result with 50% chance for every throw. With 100 throws, half the time you're between 47% and 53%. With 400 throws, half the time you're between 48.5% and 51.5%.

I give up, it's not the MMS that you need to understand, it's probabilities.

No, I'm not confused. Yes, I do know how to read. And no, Riot isn't rigging matches.

Have a good day.

Devilreaper XIIINov 29, 20191 votes

{quoted}

You have no bloody idea of how probabilities work.

No, you can't realistically throw a 100 balanced coins and get 100 heads. There is a one in 10^30 chances.

No, it's not "rare" to get a close to 50% overall result with 50% chance for every throw. With 100 throws, half the time you're between 47% and 53%. With 400 throws, half the time you're between 48.5% and 51.5%.

I give up, it's not the MMS that you need to understand, it's probabilities.

No, I'm not confused. Yes, I do know how to read. And no, Riot isn't rigging matches.

Have a good day.

probablities are just that, guesses, they are not set in stone, its still possible to throw 100 coins and get 100 heads...... so even if you THINK throwing 100 coins ends up with a 50% heads and tails, it doesn't mean it will..... aka, just because its likely to happen, doesn't mean it will happen, lel believe whatever you want, riot is definitely rigging matches, and yes you are confused, and yes you need to learn how to read.

have a good day too.

DeathBurstNov 29, 20191 votes

probablities are just that, guesses, they are not set in stone, its still possible to throw 100 coins and get 100 heads......

Yes, it's "possible", in fact, as I just said above myself, it's 1-chance-in-a-hundred-billions-billions-billions possible. That's not a typo, that's 3 billions in a chain. So no, it's not actually possible.

Devilreaper XIIINov 30, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Yes, it's "possible", in fact, as I just said above myself, it's 1-chance-in-a-hundred-billions-billions-billions possible. That's not a typo, that's 3 billions in a chain. So no, it's not actually possible.

if its possible its possible.

CominTowardsYaNov 19, 20199 votes

Thank the secret MMR system for that.

It goes like this: Rank doesn't mean anything. MMR is your real rank. Your stated Rank is what shows up on your Profile as "Rank" and you need to get to the next Rank to get credit for the Rank, but it doesn't mean anything because hidden MMR is really what matters, and if you are better than your rank, you will have high MMR and go against leet people in Challenger, and carry bronzies just to make sure you can carry games by yourself against a crack team of great players.

Great system huh.

SaezioNov 19, 20197 votes

Unranked=/= Bronze.

New players start in high silver low gold(MMR wise, rank does not matter). It's always been like that. Every person in the history of league has climbed with this exact system in place.

KnightLakegaNov 19, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Unranked=/= Bronze.

New players start in high silver low gold(MMR wise, rank does not matter). It's always been like that. Every person in the history of league has climbed with this exact system in place.

Doesn't make it any less stupid or outrageously moronic... Everyone should start at B5.. if they are unranked.. and literally first time playing ranked.. If they were D5 last season, they should start D5, period.

If they haven't played for x weeks, and haven't started ranked yet, put them into the placements, but have them play with the same rank they were last year exactly..

None of this bullshit "we're going to drop or raise you by 1 cuz reasons" bullshit.. It's beyond stupid.

ŻügżwängNov 19, 20195 votes

Don't know why they bother with their league system at all. If you're in silver you should face silvers. Not some internal MMR calculation

People will say you'll have a higher LP gain. Ok why not have that anyway and face people as close to your immediate placement as possible.

Kat SmurfNov 19, 20192 votes

because then smurfing is actually an issue, where as now, a challenger smurf has to fight other challenger smurfs to climb, and the true bronzies are spared from auto-losing that game.

ŻügżwängNov 19, 20193 votes

What? How is smurfing an actual issue then Suppose Doinb creates a new account. Why not start all accounts at bronze 4. Ok let's say he wins 7 out of 8 placements. One match his team was just full of trolls and fed way too hard, not even he could carry. He ends up placing in gold 4. Now you have a top pro in gold... Gold's will have a rough time. However the system is tracking that he's way ahead. So in the next game he plays other silver 1 to gold 3 players. Give him 50 LP for the win... 70lp, 100 LP. Whatever it is to make him climb up... I would also suggest eliminating promo series. Let's say he is then in plat. He's now facing plat players. Still he stomps them. Next game hes in diamond. Etc. This is a fringe case but smurfs will still climb quickly. The only difference is there's more transparency to the system. If you're gold you should not be getting any bronze players because they're on a lucky winstreak. If the bronze player is too low, why even have them in bronze league in the first place. Just push them up to their silver or gold rank. Having people locked behind promo series and having all these intricate systems really doesn't need to exist. If they want to assign categories like plat diamond etc for people to feel like they achieved something they can do this still, but people would feel better about the whole thing if it was more clear. If you have a silver with a platinum winrate, why have some weird system that lags their growth.

Kat SmurfNov 20, 20191 votes

ya seriously, I know you're mobbing me with downvotes, but if you don't understand how that makes smurfing an issue, then obviously your outrage can be traced back to that misunderstanding.

ŻügżwängNov 20, 20192 votes

I'm mobbing you with downvotes? lol. Take off your conspiracy cap. And what outrage? I'm not sure what you're imagining, my point was really quite simple. Smurfing will occur no matter what. Smurfs will get pushed forward to their normal rank no matter what. However the changes will only affect those near their true rank to remove frustration of getting placed with people who are perceivably lower. If someone is good enough to be facing plats, then they should be in plat.