New item idea (for Top laners who want to ward more often)

crowsntacos··2 votes·1,320 views

Hi guys, I thought of a new item idea that could be used for top laners who want to ward more often.

The ward bounce item (name pending) Builds out of chain vest, ruby crystal, and null magic mantle (enough of a cost to invest, higher cost than sightstone, but more scalable, which would be better for top laner slot efficiency).

Unique active: Ward throw. Think teemo mushrooms, but with wards. Allows to ward over walls into more obscure bushes without putting yourself in as much danger. May allow ward bouncing if placed on top of an existing ward a la teemo mushrooms too. Could have a better cooldown than yellow trinket since you're investing in vision (could have charges perhaps).

Reasoning: Build path tends to favor more tanky player type, but stay supportive. Sightstone's upgrade Ruby sightstone isn't that great stat-wise compared to other items such that top laners are deterred from the warding game outside their yellow trinket/blue upgrade. But even then, it's only once every ~90 seconds or so, so when the blue trinket dies, you're dependent on a pink ward or your unupgraded yellow wards with a long cooldown. Or on the rest of your team warding for you, which isn't that much fun either.

Riot may prefer top laners to not build wards, due to slot inefficiencies, but I doubt this is the case. Also, it'd need to be an entirely separate build path from sightstone, instead of upgrading from sightstone, as it is meant to have a cost to invest in to get the vision (higher buyin cost for the slot efficiency). I guess the alternative is buying one of the 'eye' items, like eye of the oasis, which, while close, seems to be more support focused, based on the build path and what the item 'does'. Hence why i'm looking for something with a bit more playmaking available. Since this mechanic isn't used yet, i'm wondering if a) it's possible, and b) if there's any interest.

Thoughts?

32 Comments

Anraton1 votes

item 3363 ?

crowsntacos1 votes

Hey, thanks for your comment. This has a cooldown of 90ish seconds or so, and the ward is visible. If you want to ward very quickly in an area, you have to use the yellow trinkets or a pink ward. Or buy a sightstone upgrade for any decent "slot efficient" stats. This item offers a new mechanic that would create more room for vision gameplay, while being more slot efficient than the eye items, for a higher cost.

Anraton1 votes

what sould the stats be like? why not buy sightsone if vision is that much needed.

Frascal1 votes

I think some good stats for the item he's talking about would be like, +20 MR and +30 Armor or something like that, Maybe health instead of MR who knows But i would make it a tanky item

crowsntacos1 votes

Yes, tanky was my initial focus, though since this is for top laners, I could see an ad or ap option being available as well. (think 'warding focused'. Higher buyin, better stats.)

crowsntacos2 votes

You could buy a sightstone if you want just vision, and that's what exists, and it works. But it's also not slot efficient as an nth item, even with the eye upgrades, for a top laner. I'm looking for stats that are more tanky, armor, health, mr, but also give you a warding option, that has a higher buy in cost, but is more stat-efficient as a warding tool. It would only be used if you need to still be tanky but also want to be supportive.

The active was also a novel idea I threw in to see if it was of any interest too.

Anraton1 votes

while i like the basic idea ... where is the corresponding item for ad/ap mid?

crowsntacos1 votes

See my other reply, I was just thinking about having an alternative option for ad/ap top as well, which mid laners could access just the same. In reality, mid laners have the same dilemma regarding warding.

Anraton1 votes

... still not sure about it ... as mentioned ... basically i like the idea but you allready have the totem slot, sightstone (+support war item)

don't belive this item will be bought that much as .. well as drawback of being able to place wards ... the thats will be not as good as a "pure" item ... and as we know from former seasons ... people don't like to spend any form of gold for wards in most cases ...

crowsntacos1 votes

It's intended as a more slot efficient item more geared towards different build patterns, but to keep top/mid laners more support-focused if they want to play a bigger role in providing vision on the map, but with better stats, as you're correct, both sightstones and the eye items exist, and folks don't like buying wards 'a la carte' as they did in seasons past.

Anraton1 votes

and .. i expect your new items will "die" to the same problem ... sorry if i didn't hit the right translation, i am not native english

crowsntacos1 votes

Perhaps, but it's got a potential to affect 2 vision-starved lane roles in a way that similarly has affected junglers- offer different build paths that allow for more damage or utility. See 'tracker's knife'.

Anraton1 votes

how often do you see item 3711 on a jungler?? can't remember ... maybe on Lee bot that's another reason ...

EDIT: reference http://www.lolking.net/items/3711#topchampions

crowsntacos1 votes

It depends on what type of jungler, but I use it on champs where I don't need the extra cc from chilling smite and the dueling of challenger smite.

A few extra wards on the map can be way more useful than the smite actives, if used properly. I'm just trying to extend the same love to top/mid lane in the form of a new viable item suggestion.

Anraton1 votes

did you take a look at my reference??

crowsntacos1 votes

Hey, yes, and I just pivoted back to look at it closer. In Ranked solo, it looks like it has between 24-37% association to win rate (across all ranks), if i'm interpreting this correctly. Of course, built more frequently on more 'supportive junglers' that don't always require the extra cc/durability from the other smite options.

Regardless, I do see that it's more niche in terms of popularity, which I think may be what you're trying to illustrate. In which case this would fill the 'niche utility top/mid' for mid/top laners as well.

Anraton1 votes

right the winrate when built this item is about 24-37 percent .. but the popularity (how often it is built) is way under 0.1% which means .. over all it is almost never built at all

crowsntacos1 votes

Just saw your comment. I interpret the graph as "when x champion purchases the item, it has this win %". Is that not the case?

Anraton1 votes

tat is correct .. but poularity shows, how often and item is purchaces .. a popularity of 0.1% equals 1 of 1000 games it is bought

TaoistMaster1 votes

interesting idea

crowsntacos1 votes

Thanks. Ward throw mechanic aside, I don't see how mid/top laners are supposed to ward without sacrificing their build in any significant way, outside of the limited trinket options. I'd like to see if there's interest in this being changed.

TaoistMaster1 votes

I don't see how mid/top laners are supposed to ward without sacrificing their build in any significant way

item 3363

crowsntacos1 votes

Right, but as i've said in earlier replies, while this is passively warding small areas once every ~90 seconds, if you want to have a way to have more wards that are invisible that last longer, such as the 'yellow trinket' wards, you have to either use yellow trinket, a pink, or you're forced to use an item slot with worse stats via getting a sightstone/eye item. Which no top laner or mid wants in their mid game build, because they're too busy focusing on snowballing.

1374341 votes

The problem is how do you best make it only attractive to top lane? After all many supports wouldn't mind armor and MR to go along with their health and vision, even if it costs them a little more, and you just made warding safer for them as well.

So you either have to make it very expensive relative to SS (and even then many supports might still take it- support income is in a much better spot now then it was several years ago) which slowly makes it less attractive to top laners unless they desperately need to the increased vision, or you have to make the armor/MR so bad it is not worth the extra cost to supports...but that would also effect top laner's decisions too. If you make the armor/magic resist too high it instantly becomes a must buy for any tank no matter their role (look at the history of Aegis of the Legion for example).

crowsntacos1 votes

Thanks, i've been eager for someone to mention item preferences, and why other roles wouldn't buy this. Correct- it would be due to both cost ceiling and slot efficiency. Smart supports would be better incentivized to build more items, at least initially, to flesh out their stats better, as this would be at a cost only attainable to top/mid laners at around midgame, and at a build path that isn't easy for supports to reach without being mostly 'naked' in stats/alternative item slots earlier. So yes, even supports could get it, but it should be at a significant loss to either slot efficiency and/or gold to build the item itself. It may require a new armor/mr item to be built such that it's not such a simple build path, if it comes to it.

Edit: Also Aegis of the Legion, while always a good buy due to what it gave (well rounded stats), also had an aura that affected teammates, as I recall. This would only have an active, and other armor/mr items would be balanced to be more "tank-stat" efficient over this, for the 'tanky' variant of this item.

Sire Hippington1 votes

I'd prefer haveing trinkets buffed to an reasonable state, and maybe finally getting an extra itemslot just for pinks. As soon as a warding item is any good statewise, it will be a must buy at high elos, as vision is utterly important.

crowsntacos1 votes

That's the idea- but again, if it were to be stat efficient, it should be balanced that it's not just so stat efficient that it's better than the other ap/ad/tank items around it. There should be a significant tradeoff.

Sire Hippington1 votes

the problem with very poerfull item actives, and warding is prettymuch as powerfull as it gets, is that they are nearly impossible to balance unless it's a rather situational active like zhonyas(and evem Zhonyas is a big troublemaker for balance) There is some kind of magical threshhold where those items go from the dumpster directly to must buy, prettymuch how watter starts to freez/melt at a certain point, but ice doesn't get softer when it gets closer to the melting point, nor gets water more viscous the closer it's to the freezing point, it's just a rather sudden change once the threshold is reached. A somewhat compareable example would be item 3800 , back when it had good stats it was seen in almnost every professional game, and after some nerfs it's been as rare as item 3056

Ruin Lance1 votes

so you just want to make a totally superior sightstone item?

crowsntacos1 votes

Yes, with a more slot inefficient build path and higher cost, focusing on either ad, ap, or tank stats. Ideal for top/mid laners. Would not be more efficient than other actual tank/ad/ap items, just enough to be better than sightstone, but make supports discouraged from purchasing it.

Edit: I should clarify, the eye items have their place, and I like that supports have that option. The item proposed would NOT build out of sightstone, to discourage supports from getting the sightstone benefits of going for the more 'slot efficient' final item.

Ruin Lance1 votes

just saying, literally anyone smart enough to buy this would buy this every game if it gave ideal stats. i mean, maybe not ADCs, but still. competitive wouldn't even have a use for the fog of war past the 15 minute mark, which IMO isn't really something that's healthy.

crowsntacos1 votes

I guess the question i'd have would be whether it's possible to introduce a top lane/mid lane warding item that is more stat efficient, while simultaneously removing the interest in supports buying it (for build path/cost reasons), and keeping other items still relevant to not make said item grossly overpurchased due to the stat it provides.

For example, it would have AP, but not 80 AP. Something like 65 AP for the AP variant. For AD, it wouldn't have 40 damage, but 45 damage when complete for the AD variant. Etc. for the tank stats, just barely more efficient, but more purchased for the utility.

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