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Fiora's ult AoE heal suggestion for Mr. Riot Stashu

Felgrand··5 votes·9,053 views

Hello!

So the idea of an AoE heal for the team as a reward for Fiora wining her duel is SO GOOD, everybody will be EXCITED about her duel in every teamfight to see if we all get the Grand Challenge effect!! Congratulations for this great idea!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-8oROCnNm7UY/Va7r7YhxCzI/AAAAAAAAuC8/P9MomHCTfIM/s1600/rr76.jpg

BUT as Mr. Riot Stashu said: "Heal might feel weird here, and I totally get that, but it was the most fitting tool in our box."

So the idea of this AoE team effect is great but the fact that it is a heal and not another thing might feel a bit weird, because its more of a supportish effect, like Janna/Soraka ult, etc.

So then, I thought, why not, instead of an AoE heal, a SHIELD for everyone in the area when the Grand Challenge's effect triggers?? Imagine EVERYBODY getting inside her area hoping Fiora wins the duel and we all get a generous shield!!! and the shield could have FIORA THEMED LITTLE SHIELDS SPINNING AROUND THE CHAMPS (just like Knockout Lee Sin's shield is based on his theme).

I imagine a teamfight where Fiora wins her duel and all the allies inside her ult area get a Fiora themed shield that gives a great advantage to the teamfight! (similar to karmas multi shield). And the influence of the shield in the fight could be the equivalent of the one the heal already has.

The thing here is that a shield can be AESTHETICALLY ASSOCIATED with Fiora but a heal is just that yellowish glow that cant really fit her theme that well, that's why I though it would be a good idea.

What do you think Mr. Stashu?

24 Comments

Rito Staff2 votes

(...) and the shield lasts for 10s. I agree to it.

Felgrand1 votes

The shield will last whatever makes it balanced and fun to play with and against it, I'm not talking about numbers, only an idea.

RiotRiot Stashu12 votes

I really wish a shield effect would fit for exactly the reasons you outlined above, but sadly shielding and healing mechanics have significantly different implications in this case.

Fiora's R is meant to enable her team to abandon caution and focus heavily on a single target. In order to willingly accept this risk, Fiora needs to know that success will erase the costs she paid to attain it. A shield allows you to take risks in the future, whereas a heal forgives the risks you've taken in the past.

When Fiora's team takes heavy damage in fighting for her R's success, a shield would surely be appreciated, but would soon expire and leave Fiora's team unable to take advantage of the following 5 v 4. Thus, in future situations, Fiora's team will be very likely to hesitate to fight for her ult.

Don Noat Amu makes the point that a super long duration shield might also accomplish this. However, the duration would have to be so long that it would effectively be a heal at that point, and maintaining the visual communication of the shield effect (UI, particles, etc) for so long would both be costly and feel prety odd.

Hope that explains why we decided on a heal instead!

Durzaka2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Stashu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2VTVQik0,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-22T19:25:26.983+0000)

I really wish a shield effect would fit for exactly the reasons you outlined above, but sadly shielding and healing mechanics have significantly different implications in this case.

Fiora's R is meant to enable her team to abandon caution and focus heavily on a single target. In order to willingly accept this risk, Fiora needs to know that success will erase the costs she paid to attain it. A shield allows you to take risks in the future, whereas a heal forgives the risks you've taken in the past.

That is a very well worded explanation. Makes a lot of sense.

Tendrian6 votes

When Fiora's team takes heavy damage in fighting for her R's success, a shield would surely be appreciated, but would soon expire and leave Fiora's team unable to take advantage of the following 5 v 4.

Fiora's team should not have to fight for her R's success. Fiora is the quintessential duelist, her kit and especially her ult SHOULD be selfish and focus on her 1v1 prowess. Please don't ruin yet another characters thematic identity with such a boneheaded decision. Have you learned nothing from what you did to Cass?

Kingsgrave1 votes

{quoted}

Fiora's team should not have to fight for her R's success. Fiora is the quintessential duelist, her kit and especially her ult SHOULD be selfish and focus on her 1v1 prowess. Please don't ruin yet another characters thematic identity with such a boneheaded decision. Have you learned nothing from what you did to Cass?

Fiora can kill almost everyone by herself, but if her teammates get extra benefit if she tries to do it in a team fight

Tendrian3 votes

in other words it's needless bullshit that detracts form the main point of the character

Felgrand1 votes

It has already been decided that team reliant champions, like those with awesome engages, or simply team mate reliant abilities, are much better for the game because they make it more fun. Thats why the new champs are being designed in that direction. Its much more fun to have amazing wombo combos and plays in teamfights than a stupid greedy assassin deleting someone. Apart from teamwork related champions being much more fun to play (and more rewarding when you achieve success), it is also a much better show when you watch games (LCS, etc).

Rune Ocarina5 votes

I have a serious question that I'd like answered. Why in the world does Fiora have a heal AT ALL? She's a duelist. 1v1. She's not supposed to be acting like a support and heal. How does that even make sense at all?!

Ironclad Dragon2 votes

Remember that she's an artist. A duelist always brings a crowd to bear witness to their glory.

Rune Ocarina5 votes

Too bad the victory she gets can sometimes be earned with the help of her "viewers". Hardly a fair fight, right?

Ironclad Dragon2 votes

I don't understand it either. But if it works in practice, why not? Not the most outlandish concept I've seen.

Felgrand3 votes

You are a bit out of date, your reply is in older posts where Riot Stashu explained that her interaction with the team is something intended because this is what makes the game more fun, rather than a boring bunch of damage like she was before, and her duel is a show for the other 8 players and if she gets the kill, it has a reward for her whole team (who helped her achieve it). To fulfil this role within Fiora, the best Grand Challenge reward is a heal, for the reason explained above, even if it seems unexpected for a fiery fighter like Fiora.

Scarborough Fair4 votes

Fiora's new ult is nice and unique, but it does NOT fit Fiora. Please stop working on champions if their themes mean nothing to you.

Felgrand2 votes

I think the people that are annoyed by Fiora's new approach (that involves relying on your team for success, just like a TF ult p.e.), are those who enjoyed killing and carrying the game by yourself Rengar style regardless of your team coordination, and now Fiora has lost potential in that aspect, but I still think the new approach is 100 healthier for the game, much more fun, and much more rewarding for the team when it works!

Best KhaZix Void1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Stashu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2VTVQik0,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-22T19:25:26.983+0000)

I really wish a shield effect would fit for exactly the reasons you outlined above, but sadly shielding and healing mechanics have significantly different implications in this case.

Fiora's R is meant to enable her team to abandon caution and focus heavily on a single target. In order to willingly accept this risk, Fiora needs to know that success will erase the costs she paid to attain it. A shield allows you to take risks in the future, whereas a heal forgives the risks you've taken in the past.

When Fiora's team takes heavy damage in fighting for her R's success, a shield would surely be appreciated, but would soon expire and leave Fiora's team unable to take advantage of the following 5 v 4. Thus, in future situations, Fiora's team will be very likely to hesitate to fight for her ult.

Don Noat Amu makes the point that a super long duration shield might also accomplish this. However, the duration would have to be so long that it would effectively be a heal at that point, and maintaining the visual communication of the shield effect (UI, particles, etc) for so long would both be costly and feel prety odd.

Hope that explains why we decided on a heal instead!

Couldn't you make the shield last until out of combat, kind of like Graves' passive or reverse mobis? edit: nevermind i see what you mean.

Felgrand1 votes

Thanks for your explanation! it made me think... the strategy in all these thoughts is so deep! you must have a really amazing job!

I guess I was giving too much importance to the awesomeness a Fiora team shield involves, without thinking it can only be plausible if its in harmony with a coherent gameplay too.

Orisi1 votes

I actually he a thought on this topic. Have you considered a scaling shield that converts to health on kill/ult completion? So each completed weak-spot gives allies in an area 25% of the total shield, and if you either kill the target or get all 4 weak points the shield will then convert to health? It gives the confidence to go in, but requires optimal input from Fiora to gain the full effect (so she can't just R at the end and hit them once for the full effect of the heal) it would also increase survivability during the engagement making it a more worthwhile risk.

Edit; to clarify, the shield conversion is based on amount applied; if the target dies on two weak spots only 50% of the total heal would apply because on 50% of the shield applied.

DrCyanide4 votes

I need some help visualizing when you think her ult's going to be used. Every time I've read descriptions about what the reasoning is behind the heal, it comes across like this:

Fiora, with her team behind her, picks a target and ults them. Immediately her entire team focus-fires that target, be they a tank or squishy. Due to the nature of her ultimate, she'll likely be targetting the most immobile champion on the enemy team. Between Fiora's % Health True Damage and the focus fire from the rest of the team, this person will die almost instantly. In fact, it doesn't really matter if Fiora kills them at all, so long as she attacks once and survives the whole time, which makes her building pure tank more valuable for the team. Fiora's greatest contribution to her team is as a healer, not as a fighter.

Honestly, I can't help but feel that the Fiora rework is trying to make her a tanky support champion. Think about it like Ekko, you gave an assassin so much utility that he's better off going Jungle and building Cinderhulk than he is building AP and deleting people.

Out of curiosity, was there a point in her development where a successful ult gave teams a %bonus AP/AD? For example, every time she would trigger the healing now her team gets +1% bonus AP/AD?

Wisenheimer2 votes

i still don't understand how a giant heal fits into her kit... why not have an area that increases ms + damage for those who pass through it for a brief amount of time upon exiting thus giving them the tools to both chase down and kill the rest of team after killing the current target.. rather than have her reset basically anything that happened that fight for her entire team considering it looked like a really freaking good janna ult, and janna doesnt have the ability to deal the sort of damage I'm expecting fiora will.

"Fiora's R is meant to enable her team to abandon caution and focus heavily on a single target. In order to willingly accept this risk, Fiora needs to know that success will erase the costs she paid to attain it. "

Something about this statement just seems fundamentally off, i can understand making her team focus heavily on a target, but i cant understand why that means the costs for that focus needs to be erased. There needs to be an advantage for the focus, yes, but to say "erased" seems wrong.

Šhitman171 votes

Fiora ults me I flash to a wall instant counter lol ( just kidding of corse )

Wînter Fox1 votes

For anyone who has ever played Riviera: The Promised Land and remembers Fia, this healing ult fits perfectly. Whichever Rioter came up with this is a gentleman and a scholar of Atlus games.

BlkStar1002 votes

You have my admiration for this remark . It moved my heart .

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