What's up with ADCs and Bot lane?

Catsix·Jun 15, 2018·6 votes·4,426 views

This is more of an expressive post sharing my thoughts on the state of the Bot Lane and ADCs. Although I don't have many games on ADC I know something is awry when Vlad, Yasuo, and Mord have higher win rates in bot lane than ADCs like Xayah, Trist, and Ashe. I'm no Meta Slave and have nothing against kill lanes etc bot, but when a solid chunk of ADCs have win rates below 48% (on op.gg) it gives the impression that something unhealthy is going on.

I don't know how inclined riot is to address the effects of their two most recent patches but I firmly believe the solution is not to buff or revert what they've done. I think some champs could use a tweak or two (I'm looking at you, Master Yi) but the real issue is game length vs achievable power. ADCs are falling away in favor of early game champions because games are too short for their damage to shine. Increasing game duration or even just laning phase duration (ie make 1st turret worth less, make outer turrets have higher defenses early in the game etc) will allow ADCs to build up the gold they need to make those powerspikes and be relevant again.

Alternatively, a gold income item could be implemented for marksmen (similar to jg items) where early game income could be boosted until say- the first item is completed. There are a number of possibilities to bring ADCs back and I really hope Riot sees the fall off they're experiencing and does something. ADC has been my favorite role and my favorite champs are affected severely by these changes. Please, Riot, dont let Wacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Meta be the new game...

21 Comments

MordepoolJun 15, 20186 votes

Morde. A Champion designed for Botlane is actually seeing play in Botlane. Since the Oppressive Statcheck from ranged champions took a nerf.

His. Playrate has jumped 5 percent. He's actually a Champion now. HOLY SHIT

Colton147Jun 15, 20185 votes

As I don't feel like rewriting this...

{quoted}

are all in the dumpster and are badly in need of buffs to be made a viable pick.

The only viable ADCs right now are .

Daddy AntsJun 15, 20187 votes

{quoted}

As I don't feel like rewriting this...

Kaisa does NOT need buffs. She's STILL extremely strong and a very viable pick. Ezreal is viable. Doesn't change the fact that Double Tear needs gutting though. Draven is viable.

Lucian is on the edge of being broken. 53% win rate, 30%+ pick rate and a 21%+ ban rate.

Pretty sure Ahri got nerfed in season 7 (or 6 I can't remember) for having a 53% WR and like a 20% pick rate.

SaibboJun 15, 20181 votes

is on the edge of being broken. 53% win rate, 30%+ pick rate and a 21%+ ban rate.

maybe because it's 1 outta 20 type of champions for that role that doesn't suck so it gets picked and banned basically every game? x) as soon he gets nerfed either Draven and Ezreal pop off again or we will not see an ADC in the top 10 played champion bot anymore :P

D357R0Y3RJun 15, 20184 votes

ADC is not a role why are you here once again? the role is the CARRY ROLE played by multiple class and anyone in that role that has 53% win rate with an insane amount of games IS broken

SaibboJun 15, 20182 votes

yeah but you have to consider that right now all other marksmans that play botlane(once know as ADC) are weak except couple of them that didn't get hit so hard by the nerfs so they get easily beaten by like lucian which is strong early and all the people that are trying other champion that are not exactly marksman in botlane, lucian have an easy time with them too. It's not him being super broken from just a "buff" of -200g from Bork but everyone else that's weak or really easy for Lucian to lane against (there's a reason he has been played in other roles like Top lane before)

ParoeJun 15, 20183 votes

{quoted}

ADC is not a role why are you here once again? the role is the CARRY ROLE played by multiple class and anyone in that role that has 53% win rate with an insane amount of games IS broken

ADC is an acronym for the role "Attack Damage Carry". Marksman is the class designated for ADC because they are safe, reliable, and the game revolves around them. While mADCs (melee ADCs) exist, they are few and far between and rarely played without a marksman on the team already.

Also, marksmen and ADC are interchangable as a term in league of legends because of riots pigeonhole practices. "If you cant crit you arent an ADC" basically. I think Darius is the only non-crit, remotely viable mADC too?

D357R0Y3RJun 16, 20182 votes

did you read what he wrote?

maybe because it's 1 outta 20 type of champions** for that role that doesn't suck** so it gets picked and banned basically every game? x)

ParoeJun 16, 20182 votes

{quoted}

did you read what he wrote?

Yes i... read what you wrote...? I responded to what i responded to? I responded specifically to you saying "ADC is not a role".

KlydeFrogJun 15, 20181 votes

Why would luc need a nerf all of a sudden when nothing changed on it

SaibboJun 16, 20181 votes

In theory he didn't get any changes, the only indirect "buff" he got was the -200g on bork and the buff from ER with his ult, that's really it. So now since everyone else is super weak he look really strong in contrast, also since he was always strong against top-lane champions that now get played in bot and stuff like that which get picked in this new "meta" he looks even more broken, so it's about either him getting nerf to the same level of the other marksmans or buff the other marksmans, in the first case the marksman will soon be forgotten probably until riot will switch the meta again

KlydeFrogJun 16, 20181 votes

Umm essence reaver isnt that good on him. It was better before not sure how to explain it. How is everyone else super weak. Essence reaver is in fact strong on varus ashe corki kog. Why cc ult and or instant. Old essence reaver had a flat 30% cdr to a flat 20% and ut had crit.....

Tentacle AdvisorJun 18, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Why would luc need a nerf all of a sudden when nothing changed on it

It's not that Lucian needs a nerf, or anything. It's just that, with the new Essence Reaver passive (the 'AA translates to ability CD' one), Lucian is practically playing URF mode since it synergizes too well with his 'Double Shot reduces Relentless Pursuit CD' passive, and makes his E practically have no Cooldown during the Essence Reaver timeframe.

KlydeFrogJun 19, 20181 votes

Umm it must have been more op before since it was a 30% cdr and it had crit so man. Its more op on other adcs like twitch corki varus sivir vayne and ashe. Alll work more efficient and syncs better on them then luc

KlydeFrogJun 15, 20181 votes

Lol please tell me how all of a sudden lic is broken. I want to hear it.

SaibboJun 15, 20184 votes

The main problem is that half of the ADC relay on a strong late game but weak early, most of the game don't reach that point. Before they were good because of the good sustain that got the to the late game + the crit being more rewarding and available on average around mid-game. Riot toke all of that from them, the sustain from runes and regen, the gold value of the items and the effective damage increase of the critical strikes and not to forget the 4 AD that they took away. So now since there are so many good champions that destroy these ADC early and punish them really hard not letting them getting to late game makes them worthless basically.

ParoeJun 15, 20182 votes

@thread

Marksmen itemization was finally nerfed into similarity with all other classes (2900g is standard for full items in almost every other class).
Marksmen mains are notorious for not adapting to change very well or fast unless its positive change.
Many marksmen are experimenting with the assassin crit item, storm razor, and are thus failing pretty heavily because its a bad item on champions who basic a lot.

The only buff marksmen needs is for a +20% crit chance rune in the tree. Perhaps replace legend:tenacity (marksmen dont need THAT rito) with crit?

ModWulf HelhammerJun 16, 20185 votes

See, it would be fine for marksmen items to cost as much as all the others...

If ADCs has as much power in a single item as other classes did

ParoeJun 16, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name= Król Wilk Sam,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2VEtl2go,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-06-16T00:07:29.178+0000)

See, it would be fine for marksmen items to cost as much as all the others...

If ADCs has as much power in a single item as other classes did

And yet they do. By design marksmen NEED to spike later because the damage they do is incredible, and weve all been playing in a game where they spike early and proceed to roflstomp snowball their way into a 20 minute win.
A crit is 200% damage - youre essentially gaining 100% of your total AD on basic attacks whenever it procs... And thats crazy high value.

Crit was introduced in a state of the game where marksmen got between 200 and 250 total AD, and 1.25-1.5 attack speed. it was.. needed at the time. In its current form now, people just need to let the dust settle so they can fall into the new build paths (BF sword into your zeal item is a wonderful start again, too!). Also, with the current IE we dont need the sheer amount of crit items we have. PD and ruunans could both be changed to attack speed items to better fit into marksmen builds as attack speed+utility items and zeal items could have their attack speed in general increased by 5~10%.

Meep ManJun 16, 20182 votes

It's a meta shift, not something unhealthy. ADCs just need small buffs like what is on the PBE right now.

OtterlyLostJun 16, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Emperor Churger,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2VEtl2go,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-06-16T00:09:48.786+0000)

It's a meta shift, not something unhealthy. ADCs just need small buffs like what is on the PBE right now.

Except those are the single least useful buffs in existence. They do nothing to open ADC's up to lane diversity, as ADC mains have been asking for. They do nothing to ease the growing pains in laning phase. They do nothing to actually help ADC's mid to late either. They're just a placating gesture made by riot that is empty and worthless. How often is Jinx actually going to be using her Zap for damage? When is Tristana going to be use her bomb regularly without swapping targets in midgame skirmishes/late game teamfights? And I'm glad Vayne got more %health True Damage in a bruiser/assassin meta. Especially since that's the ability she maxes second, not first. Good job Riot.

Just like patch 8.11, Riot took the laziest route ever and tried to bandaid fix the champions with buffs that aren't going to matter.